What is a big club?

chris · Post by **chris** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:19 am

In a desparate attempt to start a new thread and increase my Smackdown chances:

What is a big club?

I would go with one that has a large fan base and is currently performing well, and has been doing so over several seasons.
So I would include Man U., Arsenal, Chelsea, Celtic, Rangers, and probably Liverpool - that would be it for British clubs.
West Ham and Tottenham are not big clubs - if they are, then so are Nottingham Forest and Leeds.

James B · Post by **James B** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:21 am

large fan base, decent stadia, proud history probably comes first.

current performance and money situation second.

TANGODANCER · Post by **TANGODANCER** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:22 am

Effectively, in terms of stadium size and fan base, you could easily include City and Everton. City were getting 30,000 plus at games outside the Premiership. Newcastle also fit in this category. In terms of performance, it's a different story.

David Lee's Hair · Post by **David Lee's Hair** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:26 am

chris wrote:In a desparate attempt to start a new thread and increase my Smackdown chances:

What is a big club?

I would go with one that has a large fan base and is currently performing well, and has been doing so over several seasons.
So I would include Man U., Arsenal, Chelsea, Celtic, Rangers, and probably Liverpool - that would be it for British clubs.
West Ham and Tottenham are not big clubs - if they are, then so are Nottingham Forest and Leeds.

Cheat!!

Out of wanting to win I should try and help this fail by saying nothing but.....

I personally think its a mixture of history, fan base and current success (important ruling out teams like PNE and Huddersfield who had masses of success in yesteryear). So I'd go with all but Chelsea - they will be a big club but they're not there yet - that you've said above.

I personally think that there are only 3 truly big clubs in the UK at the moment ManUre, Celtic and Liverpool (in that order) especially when you look at there overseas appeal - you could probably argue 2 with just ManUre and Liverpool, but I have a sopopft spot fro thee Bhoys (drastically improoved last wekk

) so I'll say there in there.

Soldier_Of_The_White_Army · Post by **Soldier_Of_The_White_Army** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:28 am

A think a lot of it comes down to Geography and club history for the small minded media. For me, a big club is one that can first and foremost sustain their standing season after season in the top flight. It would also go down to the ability to grow and improve with the best the world has to offer. Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal are big clubs because they have the ability to do this while still almost garrentee a top three finish in the Premiership every season.

Then there is merchandice and fan fan following, as well as the ability to attract world class players, and finally the ability to buy their way out of trouble, which would separate the likes of Newcastle from the likes of Watford.

Zulus Thousand of em · Post by **Zulus Thousand of em** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:28 am

We're a big club. We're third in the Premier League!

Soldier_Of_The_White_Army · Post by **Soldier_Of_The_White_Army** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:30 am

Oh, and the ability to get one of the first three slots on MOTD. Regardless of the result.

Gertie · Post by **Gertie** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:31 am

The argument with City as a big club, seems to be slipping... If it's disillusion over not winning anything in the last 100 years or the general football apathy factor. There game on TV the other week (against Fulham?) looked like it was being played to a half-empty stadium (fair enough that Fulham don't tend to bring many).

What about our friends The Ar$e. Plenty of recent success, titles, cups and even last years CL finalists. Big new shiny ground - possible appeal overseas appeal due to Emirates link up AND of course media dahlings thanks to Mr Va Va Voom and others??

chris · Post by **chris** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:35 am

Recent history is more important in terms of profile and income - especially overseas

David Lee's Hair · Post by **David Lee's Hair** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:45 am

chris wrote:Recent history is more important in terms of profile and income - especially overseas

True but not just in 2 years.

Look at the Far East, The main two teams are the Mancs and Scousers. Chelsea will get in there but they're not yet.

Chelsea cannot crack the US market despite the fact they've won the last two years - the Americans love history mainly as they've not got much of there own, hence the United being so big over there.

When chelsea win the fifth, sixth,, seventh titles then it''ll be different - even if they win the Champions League it'll be different, but without that key bed of success in global comps i don't think you can say they are big.

From a UK scale possibly they are a big club now, allthough it'd be interesting to see how many fans they'll have when Abramovich boogs off/gets arrested/gets knocked off by some from of umbrella injection, and they cannot sustain the wages and high transfer fee's they've paid and do a Leeds. Historically they're only slightly much bigger than Crystal Palace, QPR, Fulham or Charlton the average middle of the road London club, they're nowhere near as big as Spuds, Spammers or the Arse!

chris · Post by **chris** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:47 am

David Lee's Hair wrote:
chris wrote:Recent history is more important in terms of profile and income - especially overseas
True but not just in 2 years.

Look at the Far East, The main two teams are the Mancs and Scousers. Chelsea will get in there but they're not yet.

Chelsea cannot crack the US market despite the fact they've won the last two years - the Americans love history mainly as they've not got much of there own, hence the United being so big over there.

When chelsea win the fifth, sixth,, seventh titles then it''ll be different - even if they win the Champions League it'll be different, but without that key bed of success in global comps i don't think you can say they are big.

From a UK scale possibly they are a big club now, allthough it'd be interesting to see how many fans they'll have when Abramovich boogs off/gets arrested/gets knocked off by some from of umbrella injection, and they cannot sustain the wages and high transfer fee's they've paid and do a Leeds. Historically they're only slightly much bigger than Crystal Palace, QPR, Fulham or Charlton the average middle of the road London club, they're nowhere near as big as Spuds, Spammers or the Arse!

Fair enough - but I think they will win those titles. I think they have now made enough to sustain their postion when Abramovich goes.

CrazyHorse · Post by **CrazyHorse** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:52 am

West Ham are a big club.

David Lee's Hair · Post by **David Lee's Hair** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:57 am

chris wrote:
David Lee's Hair wrote:
chris wrote:Recent history is more important in terms of profile and income - especially overseas
True but not just in 2 years.

Look at the Far East, The main two teams are the Mancs and Scousers. Chelsea will get in there but they're not yet.

Chelsea cannot crack the US market despite the fact they've won the last two years - the Americans love history mainly as they've not got much of there own, hence the United being so big over there.

When chelsea win the fifth, sixth,, seventh titles then it''ll be different - even if they win the Champions League it'll be different, but without that key bed of success in global comps i don't think you can say they are big.

From a UK scale possibly they are a big club now, allthough it'd be interesting to see how many fans they'll have when Abramovich boogs off/gets arrested/gets knocked off by some from of umbrella injection, and they cannot sustain the wages and high transfer fee's they've paid and do a Leeds. Historically they're only slightly much bigger than Crystal Palace, QPR, Fulham or Charlton the average middle of the road London club, they're nowhere near as big as Spuds, Spammers or the Arse!
Fair enough - but I think they will win those titles. I think they have now made enough to sustain their postion when Abramovich goes.

I think they will, but I'd be surprised if they could sustain it if he went tomorrow. Fat Frank, Terry, Drogba, Ballack, Shevchenko to name a few on £100k a week plus bonuses and the like, maybe if they can break the great untapped markets it'd be sustainable, but not at present for chelsea.

Also if Abramovich wanted he could actually just demand his money back, in theory everything he's given - wiith the excepption of the purchase of the club is a loan to the club, he could walk and demand that all back.

Little Green Man · Post by **Little Green Man** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:25 pm

If you listen to 5Live, it's whoever Steve Claridge decides is a big club.

blurred · Post by **blurred** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:13 pm

Sustained success, largely, over a period of time. If a team is regularly over a period of years (say a decade) putting silverwear in its cabinet at the top level then it can be called a big side.

Yes there is a historical angle to things, but not to the exclusion of current performance. Notts Forest are not a big club, despite having won as many European Cups as Manchester United. If Forest had remained in the top flight and in the top half, and maybe won a few cups then they could make a claim for inclusion in some sort of 'borderline' big club argument. But they didn't, and they languish in League 1.

Any side can win one trophy once, be it league or cup, but a side that returns to success year after year can claim to be a big club. For instance:

Man United - big club
Spurs - not big club
Arsenal - big club
Newcastle - definitely not big club
Liverpool - just about big club
Chelsea - becoming big club
Man City - not big club

Dave Sutton's barnet · Post by **Dave Sutton's barnet** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:52 pm

Little Green Man wrote:If you listen to 5Live, it's whoever Steve Claridge decides is a big club.

There's a lesson there, centering around your "if"...

77,78,81,84,05 · Post by **77,78,81,84,05** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:04 pm

CAPSLOCK · Post by **CAPSLOCK** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:34 pm

The reason people can't agree a definition for 'big club' is bacause it means nowt

It was invited by underachieving laughing stocks like City, Newcastle and Spurs

Bruce Rioja · Post by **Bruce Rioja** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:48 pm

Commie's new driver. Now that is a big club. It's like a bungalow on at stick. Even HE can't miss the ball with it.

Village Idiot · Post by **Village Idiot** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:40 pm

For me, a "big club" is just one that can achieve a privileged league position over the years, preferably with silverware. For me it's something mostly measured in recent years than cups won where the dinosaurs were about. A big club should also have decent bouncebackibility, being able to recover privileged league positions even after some bad years.

Number of fans, income, MOTD slots, etc... are all elements that are tied to success. A team that stops having good results will see a fanbase and income decline, and viceversa. However, having a long history of "bigclubism" may allow for easier recovery and floating capacity.

From EPL:

1) Arse: big club
2) Chelski: big club
3) Liverpool: big club (due to CL win mostly)
4) ManU: big club
5) Spurs: eeehh... no
6) ManCity: who?
7) Aston Villa: former big club
8 ) Newcastle: almost was big club, nowhere near now

La Liga

1) Barça: big club
2) Real Madrid: big club
3) Valencia: big club (not always been)
4) Atlético: used to be big club, not anymore (but could be back there someday due to still having lots of fans and decent income)
5) Athletic Bilbao: former big club, modern foo$ball killed them

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