Brexit or Britin

[thebish]

^^ They have a real problem here. Corbyn was elected by a huge margin of people all gathered in a Portacabin, assuming because they're all in agreement with each other, everyone outside the portacabin will be too. Talk of lots of shadow cabinet resignations today, but 9 months on from his election, I don't see any real new candidates than last time. If they come up with a similarly uninspiring list, it'll just be another clusterfcuk.

Indeed - though politics is a weird thing and I think it is possible that the sheer level of ongoing demonization of corbyn will make whoever is chosen appear to be the very voice of reason and competence - as long as it isn' t Burnham...

The labour party is a bit like where bwfc has been, where Blair=big sam and brown/milliband/corbyn = coyle/freedman/Lennon..

Parky = ??

[Rjs37]

Chuka maybe? He seemed to me the most exciting of the prior candidates.

Though last time around he pulled out because he didn't want to be in the spotlight. Has the situation now changed enough to warrant putting up with that?

[Worthy4England]

Chuka maybe? He seemed to me the most exciting of the prior candidates.

Though last time around he pulled out because he didn't want to be in the spotlight. Has the situation now changed enough to warrant putting up with that?

He's a complete non-entity, too. Not the worst of the bunch initially put forwards last time, but has sqr rt of diddly squat underneath soundbites.

[Beefheart]

So the Tata Takeover might fall through and it looks like jobs in the Financial Sector will be the first to go (good! bloody bankers! oh wait what they pay loads of tax? shit).

Project Fear was actually Project Bang on the fecking Money https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/wil ... ote-leave/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[thebish]

I'm getting the distinct impression that Boris and co didn't want to won this - and they don't have the ideas or the stomach for the shitload of complex work that now needs to be done on a thousand different fronts... And the millions who voted out are waiting for delivery of those promises...

[Beefheart]

So the Tata Takeover might fall through and it looks like jobs in the Financial Sector will be the first to go (good! bloody bankers! oh wait what they pay loads of tax? shit).

Project Fear was actually Project Bang on the fecking Money https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/wil ... ote-leave/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Morgan Stanley have already begun moving 2000 staff out of London; HSBC looking to follow suit soon. I'm sure they're no the only ones too, and we'll see more over the coming weeks and months. As I said above the consequences are now starting to sink in for the senior Leave campaigners, and they're now hesitating.

I'm getting the distinct impression that Boris and co didn't want to won this - and they don't have the ideas or the stomach for the shitload of complex work that now needs to be done on a thousand different fronts... And the millions who voted out are waiting for delivery of those promises...

Yep, exactly what I think too from my post above. It's all starting to sink in for them now.

You could see it on their faces. They didn't look how you're supposed to when you've won something. Two journalists without a fecking clue.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm getting the distinct impression that Boris and co didn't want to won this - and they don't have the ideas or the stomach for the shitload of complex work that now needs to be done on a thousand different fronts... And the millions who voted out are waiting for delivery of those promises...

I said that Friday and Tango told me I couldn't say that unless I'd spoken to them in person, rather than watching them on TV

Anyhow, it is clear as day that Boris especially never expected to win. I don't even think he believes in leaving. He just saw a chance to oust his 'mate' Dave. Perhaps via a narrow remain win.

[thebish]

People can piss and whine at the labour party - but the real destruction of the economy is being wrought by Tory infighting, plain and simple

[Beefheart]

People can piss and whine at the labour party - but the real destruction of the economy is being wrought by Tory infighting, plain and simple

Doesn't mean Corbyn isn't completely useless and should resign immediately.

[BWFC_Insane]

People can piss and whine at the labour party - but the real destruction of the economy is being wrought by Tory infighting, plain and simple

Because they can at present get away with anything and still be re-elected and they know it.

[Nicko58]

The EU is flawed is some respects certainly, but it's better to be part of a community and improve than just isolating ourselves.

There appear to be a lot of people who felt the same, but Juncker made it quite clear in the run-up to the referendum that Cameron's renegotiations would be the extent of any reform that Britain would be able to implement. It appears to me that those comments might well have tipped a significant number of people who were understandably concerned about democracy, sovereignty, and the direction that the EU was heading in from being moderate Remainers to moderate Leavers.

How much responsibility have the EU, or perhaps more specifically Juncker, got to take for the outcome of the vote?

[Prufrock]

People can piss and whine at the labour party - but the real destruction of the economy is being wrought by Tory infighting, plain and simple

Because they can at present get away with anything and still be re-elected and they know it.

Yup.

[Hoboh]

Perhaps all the 'youth' out protesting against a democratic vote should have one so before the referendum was set in stone.

I think the arrogance shown in spouting the crap they have been sold out by oldies should be rewarded.

Maybe when the want financial support through University the taps should be turned off.

Maybe when they want a place to doss out in without contributing much to the running of the place, until their mid 20's, they should get the boot.

Perhaps when Grandad and Grandma are on the list for contributions or paying their housing deposits from pensions/savings they should be told it's going on a holiday home.

The young have had their arses wiped for too long and biting the hand, that in some cases literally feeds them, is a bit rich.

First off I'm annoyed at people around my age complaining and not voting. I agree with you in that regard, but with as much respect as I can offer, the rest of what you wrote is incredibly off the mark in my opinion.

It was the generations above, the ones who went to university before 1998, who had 'full' financial support. They didn't have to pay a penny for university because the Government fully subsidised it. Your next sentence is an incredibly judgemental thing to say. I, and everyone I know, worked our collective asses off to get a good degree and job after university - mainly because there are few decent jobs now that pay well and don't require higher education (only ones I can think of are 'trades'). It's not a complete 'doss' despite what the Daily Mail might say. Do people go there to feck around for 3 or 4 years? Yes. Are they the majority? No. That's a hell of a wide brush you're using there Hoboh.

How exactly is it the 'youth's' fault for not being able to afford a house deposit? In terms of average wage to house prices, the current 'youth' are one of (if not the) worst off generations in recorded history. This is empirically proven and covered by many articles/studies/papers. And it's been caused by the generations and governments preceding us. There's a reason that parents and grandparents are stepping in to help: it's not because we're lazy dossers as you seem to believe; it's because they have some empathy and realise just how screwed we are financially especially in comparison to where they were at our age. The days of being a single person in an average job being able to afford a decent sized house are gone, at least without significant help or incredibly long periods of saving. Even as recently as the 90s my (at the time) single mother, on a part time vet wage, managed to buy a nice house on the outskirts of Bolton; if I was in her situation with my current role and wage, despite being on a far higher salary, I wouldn't be able to do that with current house prices assuming the rule of thumb of mortgages being 4.5x your wage. At least not without saving for at least a decade.

In what way have we had our arses wiped for too long? Because we don't have to go down the pits any more, or up chimneys? I'm genuinely curious. Wages are barely increasing; house prices are at an all time high; rent is so high that most people can't simultaneously afford to save for a property; university costs are ever increasing; pensions are lower than they have been for quite some time; ages of first time buyers and families are ever increasing because of the preceding facts; this list goes on. I'm in the relatively fortunate position of being in a decent paid job where I can simultaneously rent and save not only for my future, but for a house deposit. However this isn't a luxury that extends to a lot of people around my age, regardless of educational background.

I respect your opinion, and the fact that you voted leave, and I'd defend your right to until my last breath. But please, please don't treat my generation with contempt when a brief bit of reading would show you the facts of just how screwed we are in comparison to previous generations.

Maybe they want the same opportunities that you and I had. Affordable /free education, affordable housing, pensions that might have been worth something and the opportunity to live and work abroad. How politically aware and engaged were you at that age? The youth of today might be a bit soft and have it easy in some ways, but they've been brought up in a world created by our and older generations and well and truly shafted by recent governments. I'd be angry if I were one of them.

This. Exactly this.

It is the younger generation with their self important opinionated views that the older people shouldn't be able to vote because it's 'all about me' who cause my type of reaction, and yes there is quite a few of them.
A pal of mine put it like this;
Give the young ones an I-pad and I-phone, social media, enough money to go on the lash, a few knob head celebs and they know everything.
Having it easy? there is more and more protection for the younger generation than they know, competition in schools and other aspects of life has been dumbed down, I've seen some exam papers due to my son in law being a teacher and to be honest they are hardly as taxing as the old 'O' levels used to be, apparently course work makes up most of it and they get substantial help with that so as not to affect school performance figures.
I admire people who work hard and go to Uni (well as long as it's a constructive course and not media and arts etc) but some of these people are too easy to forget just who actually gives them a leg up, you call it empathy, I'd say it was love and they repay it how?
The world is a big place now, run by bankers, money men and multi National companies whose sole interest is their bank balance, they own politics a large part of the out vote was an up yours to them and their institutions of which the EU was the biggest, the youth unfortunately have been cleverly manipulated to see them as the only way forward, they lead, sheep follow.
History appears to have little bearing on how youth perceive things today, when I first bought my house we had hand me downs, second or third hand furniture, frost on the insides of the windows, coal fires to clean and light, a rented colour TV about the size of a barge with three channels, WTF was the internet, mobile phone or X-box of course you've got it easier now.

[Hoboh]

The EU is flawed is some respects certainly, but it's better to be part of a community and improve than just isolating ourselves.

There appear to be a lot of people who felt the same, but Juncker made it quite clear in the run-up to the referendum that Cameron's renegotiations would be the extent of any reform that Britain would be able to implement. It appears to me that those comments might well have tipped a significant number of people who were understandably concerned about democracy, sovereignty, and the direction that the EU was heading in from being moderate Remainers to moderate Leavers.

How much responsibility have the EU, or perhaps more specifically Juncker, got to take for the outcome of the vote?

Juncker and the other EU gravy train riders have a lot to answer for, the closer the union the better their position and power, from the poor little Joe no one knows to the big I am without the work of having to face an electorate.

[Hoboh]

People can piss and whine at the labour party - but the real destruction of the economy is being wrought by Tory infighting, plain and simple

Because they can at present get away with anything and still be re-elected and they know it.

Blair and Brown are responsible for the state of the Labour party now.

They had a perfect opportunity to build a decent well balanced social society and blew it!

[Bijou Bob]

There's a theory doing the rounds that Cameron has passed on a poison chalice by resigning. The theory goes that whoever gets the top job will have to trigger Article 50 and will have to campaign on that basis, signalling renewed strife in Ireland (I've been told off by NMB for dropping the C bomb at Martin McGuinness on Sunday Politics this morning) and the break up of the union once wee Jimmy Crankie gets her way. The only way to prevent this would be not to trigger Article 50, going against a democratic vote and destroying their own credibility.

I find it interesting that the Brexit vote seems to have been triggered in part by the impression that as a country, we were being controlled by unelected bureaucrats. This weekend, it's the bureaucrats who are sulking and demanding we exit as quickly as possible, whilst politicians urge restraint. I sense a new battle front opening up between EU politicians and those who want the status quo to remain within the EU machine.

[Hoboh]

There's a theory doing the rounds that Cameron has passed on a poison chalice by resigning. The theory goes that whoever gets the top job will have to trigger Article 50 and will have to campaign on that basis, signalling renewed strife in Ireland (I've been told off by NMB for dropping the C bomb at Martin McGuinness on Sunday Politics this morning) and the break up of the union once wee Jimmy Crankie gets her way. The only way to prevent this would be not to trigger Article 50, going against a democratic vote and destroying their own credibility.

I find it interesting that the Brexit vote seems to have been triggered in part by the impression that as a country, we were being controlled by unelected bureaucrats. This weekend, it's the bureaucrats who are sulking and demanding we exit as quickly as possible, whilst politicians urge restraint. I sense a new battle front opening up between EU politicians and those who want the status quo to remain within the EU machine.

I've seen a few bits attributed to Merkel and they are nowhere near what Juncker is spouting, even Wolfgang Schäuble seems to be reigning in his original rhetoric.
Apparently wee Jimmy has been told a part of an EU member state cannot go it alone and if they went independent they would have to apply to join under the current rules whilst excepting the package she seems to think she is exempt from.
An independent Scotland might get fast tracked a little quicker but it will still take 3-5 years.

[Hoboh]

https://news.vice.com/video/jeremy-corbyn-the-outsider" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[TANGODANCER]

I said that Friday and Tango told me I couldn't say that unless I'd spoken to them in person, rather than watching them on TV

Gee, I love band-waggon jumpers....
Since you're another "Tango said" quoter, how about the bit that got tutt-tutted when I said that I believed the only really honest of the voters were those who admitted they just didn't know? Doesn't look quite so silly a sentiment right now, does it?

[Armchair Wanderer]

Whoever leads the Tories will have to disappoint the country by not fulfilling the promises.

Everyone bashed labour so much leading up to 2010 that we've not had an opposition since then. In 2016 we have the right against a tiny voice from the left. The referendum has told the Tories we don't like the nice centre, we like the right. Enter a right wing government... let's see how the pensioners on council estates like that.

It's like we've voted to go back to the 80's. Someone said on the radio he's wanted to leave Europe since the 80's because of the north south divide... it looks like we're kicking the banks out, so I guess that's levelling things up (in a bad way).