Brexit or Britin

[thebish]

I said that Friday and Tango told me I couldn't say that unless I'd spoken to them in person, rather than watching them on TV

Gee, I love band-waggon jumpers....
Since you're another "Tango said" quoter, how about the bit that got tutt-tutted when I said that I believed the only really honest of the voters were those who admitted they just didn't know? Doesn't look quite so silly a sentiment right now, does it?

to be fair, since you ask... yes it does - it looks every bit as silly now as it did then...

[Worthy4England]

Terrible echo in here But seriously, that's far more concise than my post! And to be fair to Hoboh we're having a very reasonable discussion about the results and what they potentially mean, at least as far as I'm aware; it's more than is happening on other forums and in person!

I hadn't gotten as far as your post when I wrote this Anyway, I think Hoboh forgot to mention youthful smart arses

Just on the house price "thing". I had no illusions in my 20's (in the 1980's) that I could afford one. When the interest rates headed up to 15% it wasn't too pretty. Whilst looking at the folks that made it through the other side of all that negative equity, there were plenty that went bankrupt, because financial institutions were allowing people mortgages of 60/70% of what they earned...

So it certainly wasn't always sweetness and light and some sort of easy trip. I bought my first house at the age of 35.

[Bijou Bob]

I don't think it's too much different these days either Worthy, as long as you're in the North. Some young friends of mine have just bought their first house in Staff's. 170k for a good sized semi. My daughter will be looking soon. She reckons she and her partner will need
half a years salary as a deposit. That's not much different to my experience in 1987, albeit getting a mortgage was admittedly easy then, I had a pulse.

[TANGODANCER]

I said that Friday and Tango told me I couldn't say that unless I'd spoken to them in person, rather than watching them on TV

Gee, I love band-waggon jumpers....
Since you're another "Tango said" quoter, how about the bit that got tutt-tutted when I said that I believed the only really honest of the voters were those who admitted they just didn't know? Doesn't look quite so silly a sentiment right now, does it?

to be fair, since you ask... yes it does - it looks every bit as silly now as it did then...

Oh, being fair are we? Well, very fortunately the world in general, and this forum in particular, doesn't have to take your opinion as being anything other than er, your opinion. Thanks for submitting it though.

[Worthy4England]

I don't think it's too much different these days either Worthy, as long as you're in the North. Some young friends of mine have just bought their first house in Staff's. 170k for a good sized semi. My daughter will be looking soon. She reckons she and her partner will need
half a years salary as a deposit. That's not much different to my experience in 1987, albeit getting a mortgage was admittedly easy then, I had a pulse.

Aye, it was certainly always difficult unless there were two of you. Not many single folks were stumping up.

[Worthy4England]

^^ Not sure I'm with it, even given the historical data. The historical data shows many things, which part of it are you referring to?

The London thing isn't new either. When I lived down there, it was largely in low quality B&B's coz of the same problem being many times exaggerated than in the North. I wouldn't have wanted to, live down there anyhow as it happens on any sort of permanent basis. But I would say that the link between where people work and where they live has become a lot less close than it used to be. I live in Manchester, but work in Manchester less than 5% of the time. It would makes some sense for me to live in the South in terms of distance to work, but I can get to London in 3 hours door to door, so why would I buy a tent down there when I can afford a camper van up here?

[Bijou Bob]

As an aside to all of this, I've just noticed a rather surprising side effect to the referendum; I'm developing a bit of a thing for Laura Kuenssberg.

No, I don't get it either

[Lord Kangana]

Terrible echo in here But seriously, that's far more concise than my post! And to be fair to Hoboh we're having a very reasonable discussion about the results and what they potentially mean, at least as far as I'm aware; it's more than is happening on other forums and in person!

I hadn't gotten as far as your post when I wrote this Anyway, I think Hoboh forgot to mention youthful smart arses

That I'll agree with

Honestly the number of people who want another referendum or Indyref are behaving just like the EU, not the result we want lets change it.
Make no mistake, Sturgeon is just a plain opportunist about referendum2.

I don't personally think there should be another referendum, though I do think part of the make up of the first one should have something along the lines of a minimum percentage win to invoke any change in the status quo. Not sure what that should be, but probably somewhere in the region of 10%.

That said, there was a certain outer that had designs on a second referendum should it be 52-48 to remain. Gooses and ganders etc etc...

The horrible pseudo-fascist Farage has been irritating us for years with his anti-EU hate propaganda, chipping away until he got what he wanted. Why the f*ck shouldn't I do the same for something I believe in?

I certainly don't accept that this is, or should have to be, the end of it. I want the world to be a better place. I believe that's a message of hope that needs screaming about until your lungs bleed. I believe inclusion in a wider European project achieves that aim far more clearly than a parochial retreat into one corner of an island... once all the rest have f*cked off when they realise how pathetic and small minded too many people in this small corner are.

Is this over? Is it f*ck. Not by a long chalk.

[Hoboh]

Well, well, well, who'd have thunk it?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... anipulated" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Hoboh]

The European Union must stop being nit-picky and intrusive, French Prime Minister Manuel Valls said today as the bloc scrambled to handle the aftermath of Britain's vote to leave.

The Brexit vote to leave the EU has deepened fears among mainstream politicians across Europe about the rise of eurosceptic, anti-establishment parties, particularly in France, where the far-right National Front is increasingly popular.

That concern has also prompted mainstream French politicians on the left and right to call for an overhaul of Europe, in a country where surveys show disillusionment with Brussels is growing.

'We must put an end to this sad and finicky Europe. Too often it is intrusive on details and desperately absent on what's essential,' Valls said.

'We must break away from the dogma of ever more Europe. Europe must act not by principle but when it is useful and pertinent.'

Funny how they seem to be seeing all the problems with the EU now

[Lord Kangana]

What, now that far-right parties are sharpening their knives? Its almost if you have no idea who and what you're mixing yourself up in. Of course, you probably won't live to see the consequences of your own petulance.

[TANGODANCER]

"Despite Vatican City, a tiny city state, having a total population of just 800, over 39,000 residents of Vatican City appeared to have signed the petition."


Fantastic organising.

[bobo the clown]

^^ exactly like Labour politicians all used the same phrases after LAST year's election. I seem to recall "aspiration" being rather over-used.

It's too fckg late now to admit it's weaknesses. AND the great apsratchiks will never shift. Too deeply engrained.

[Hoboh]

What, now that far-right parties are sharpening their knives? Its almost if you have no idea who and what you're mixing yourself up in. Of course, you probably won't live to see the consequences of your own petulance.

What is your problem?

You think the EU is a fine democratic organisation and not a gift for free loaders pissed by power?

Juncker and his mates tipped the referendum to leave, helped your lost cause a lot didn't they?

Rise of the right my ass, politics as we know it has been nuked and better will emerge.

Petulance? I'd suggest you stand back a little more from the range.

[Worthy4England]

Well, well, well, who'd have thunk it?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... anipulated" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That would of course be the same petition started by that Brexiteer from the right wing English Democrats?

[Hoboh]

Well, well, well, who'd have thunk it?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... anipulated" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That would of course be the same petition started by that Brexiteer from the right wing English Democrats?

I never said he wasn't a fcuking idiot did I?

The idea of these stupid petitions is just that, stupid, your elected representatives are supposed to do that, oh wait.....

I think they were introduced as a sop to the internet social media types, what about the old who don't know what wifi is but do know how to talk to real people?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Terrible echo in here But seriously, that's far more concise than my post! And to be fair to Hoboh we're having a very reasonable discussion about the results and what they potentially mean, at least as far as I'm aware; it's more than is happening on other forums and in person!

I hadn't gotten as far as your post when I wrote this Anyway, I think Hoboh forgot to mention youthful smart arses

Just on the house price "thing". I had no illusions in my 20's (in the 1980's) that I could afford one. When the interest rates headed up to 15% it wasn't too pretty. Whilst looking at the folks that made it through the other side of all that negative equity, there were plenty that went bankrupt, because financial institutions were allowing people mortgages of 60/70% of what they earned...

So it certainly wasn't always sweetness and light and some sort of easy trip. I bought my first house at the age of 35.

Aye, I wouldn't dispute that. I do think that the combinations of high rents and housing 10 times average salary in parts means many would take 20 odd years of living like a monk just to afford the deposit at today's prices, never mind the 20 years future prices. Once you add in the amount of student debt expected of students these days and it makes it a hopeless cause for many. If we had sensible laws around renting then it wouldn't be so much an issue.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

[
The horrible pseudo-fascist Farage has been irritating us for years with his anti-EU hate propaganda, chipping away until he got what he wanted. Why the f*ck shouldn't I do the same for something I believe in?

I certainly don't accept that this is, or should have to be, the end of it. I want the world to be a better place. I believe that's a message of hope that needs screaming about until your lungs bleed. I believe inclusion in a wider European project achieves that aim far more clearly than a parochial retreat into one corner of an island... once all the rest have f*cked off when they realise how pathetic and small minded too many people in this small corner are.

Is this over? Is it f*ck. Not by a long chalk.

I don't think we shouldn't fight to stay, but I don't think calling additional referendums because we don't like the result is the answer, regardless of how feckless we think some of the outers might be.

Parliament have to pass an act to leave, but that is problematic as around half the electorate will ensure they never get in again and I wouldn't be surprised to see violence on the street as a result. It's a brave set if MPs to go against it. My solution is that we need a general election. Each party can set out what they want to do (leave, ignore the referendum or some halfway house of the EEA or similar). This allows those already pissed off at the back tracking, those that did it for a larf and the ones that forgot to get out of bed a chance to change things. If leave wins out again then I'd say tough, it's been voted for twice. Likely result is a coalition of remain will win, or worst case entry to the EEA, which would be more palatable for most. It's already clear we aint getting less immigrants and the NHS isn't benefiting from the mythical 350m. This allows MPs some room to manoeuvre and it allows the electorate to still have the final say but knowing the truth behind the leave arguments.

[BWFC_Insane]

Boris sounds shit scared. Totally different messaging now to during the campaign. Wouldn't surprise me if his plan (if he won the Tory leadership) is to wait for the dust to settle then delay enacting article 50 until people forget about it and something else happens as distraction.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... --and-alw/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Hoboh]

Boris sounds shit scared. Totally different messaging now to during the campaign. Wouldn't surprise me if his plan (if he won the Tory leadership) is to wait for the dust to settle then delay enacting article 50 until people forget about it and something else happens as distraction.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... --and-alw/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Won't have to wait long, Chillcott is due out soon.