Brexit or Britin

[Worthy4England]

Wow, that literally is a site for people with shit for brains. Apart from the two Auschwitz survivors who probably deserve a fair shout on balance.

I find it mildly amusing that people shout about having their opinions heard about something, so you listen, and you express your opinion that they talking complete bollocks and are a knob-end, they then complain that they don't have a right to an opinion. Course you do - you expressed it, I called it complete bollocks. That's the way it works. We both expressed our opinions, both were heard, move on.

[Lord Kangana]

Well thank you, I wrote Junker is a wanker on the ballot paper, that'll show them.

If it makes you feel any better, I am opposed to the fees charged for further education for UK citizens, but I think criteria for gaining places should be tightened up and courses streamlined to exclude useless ones with little after relevance.

This line of reasoning makes no sense. We've just introduced the market place into further education and yet these courses still exist. But if they made no sense, surely no-one would still be doing them because of the financial disincentive?

[Bruce Rioja]

Can one of you explain this rounding on Jeremy Corbyn please? What's he done so wrong? He doesn't strike me as having had a hidden agenda - quite the opposite in fact. I see that Cameron's chucked his oar in now. What the feck has it to do with him? This isn't a matter of national importance at all.

[BWFC_Insane]

Can one of you explain this rounding on Jeremy Corbyn please? What's he done so wrong? He doesn't strike me as having had a hidden agenda - quite the opposite in fact. I see that Cameron's chucked his oar in now. What the feck has it to do with him? This isn't a matter of national importance at all.

Supposedly there is evidence he deliberately tried to hijack the remain campaign as he wanted to leave.

If there isn't he certainly didn't try very hard.

He's an absolutely shit leader hell bent on revenge on the centre and centre left wings of the party.

Was a bit odd for Cameron to say that, but then again I think even Tories want some sort of effective opposition and Labour under Corbyn can't provide that.

[Bruce Rioja]

Can one of you explain this rounding on Jeremy Corbyn please? What's he done so wrong? He doesn't strike me as having had a hidden agenda - quite the opposite in fact. I see that Cameron's chucked his oar in now. What the feck has it to do with him? This isn't a matter of national importance at all.

Supposedly there is evidence he deliberately tried to hijack the remain campaign as he wanted to leave.

If there isn't he certainly didn't try very hard.

He's an absolutely shit leader hell bent on revenge on the centre and centre left wings of the party.

Was a bit odd for Cameron to say that, but then again I think even Tories want some sort of effective opposition and Labour under Corbyn can't provide that.

OK, but he was elected by an overwhelming majority. For what it's worth, and although I don't agree with most of his politics, I have Corbyn down as being a resolute and morally upstanding bloke who's always put his cards on the table and told it as he sees it. I have incredible admiration for the guy. I just can't understand how a bunch of folk who so staunchly backed him in the leadership campaign can now turn on him like they have. Much of it is actually objectionable and borders on personal abuse. I honestly think that the guy deserves much better treatment that he's currently getting, especially from those who supported him very recently.

[Worthy4England]

Very important that we focus on the individual obstacles and thoroughly overcome them before moving to the next. I really think Michael needs to have a Henry or a Beth (Mr Gove's media advisers, also copied into the email) with him for this morning's crucial meetings.

"One simple message: You MUST have SPECIFIC assurances from Boris OTHERWISE you cannot guarantee your support. The details can be worked out later on, but without that you have no leverage.

"Crucially, the membership will not have the necessary reassurance to back Boris, neither will (Daily Mail editor Paul) Dacre/(Rupert) Murdoch, who instinctively dislike Boris but trust your ability enough to support a Boris Gove ticket.

"Do not concede any ground. Be your stubborn best.

"GOOD LUCK."

Not that our country's thinking is run by Rupert Murdoch and The Daily Mail or owt.

[BWFC_Insane]

Can one of you explain this rounding on Jeremy Corbyn please? What's he done so wrong? He doesn't strike me as having had a hidden agenda - quite the opposite in fact. I see that Cameron's chucked his oar in now. What the feck has it to do with him? This isn't a matter of national importance at all.

Supposedly there is evidence he deliberately tried to hijack the remain campaign as he wanted to leave.

If there isn't he certainly didn't try very hard.

He's an absolutely shit leader hell bent on revenge on the centre and centre left wings of the party.

Was a bit odd for Cameron to say that, but then again I think even Tories want some sort of effective opposition and Labour under Corbyn can't provide that.

OK, but he was elected by an overwhelming majority. For what it's worth, and although I don't agree with most of his politics, I have Corbyn down as being a resolute and morally upstanding bloke who's always put his cards on the table and told it as he sees it. I have incredible admiration for the guy. I just can't understand how a bunch of folk who so staunchly backed him in the leadership campaign can now turn on him like they have. Much of it is actually objectionable and borders on personal abuse. I honestly think that the guy deserves much better treatment that he's currently getting, especially from those who supported him very recently.

Lots in the parliamentary party didn't back him. He got in via changed party leadership election rules. But many in the party did not want him.

Corbyn and his supporters are pretty vicious and I think when you have one of (IMO) the most decent politicians of modern times in Alan Johnson say he doesn't want Corbyn I think that pretty much says everything that needs saying. In my view at least.

Labour need to be credible. Corbyn is the least credible option they have by a mile.

I think it is in everyone's interest that there is an electorally credible Labour Party to oppose Boris, if he becomes Tory leader. It is critical.

[Bruce Rioja]

Can one of you explain this rounding on Jeremy Corbyn please? What's he done so wrong? He doesn't strike me as having had a hidden agenda - quite the opposite in fact. I see that Cameron's chucked his oar in now. What the feck has it to do with him? This isn't a matter of national importance at all.

Supposedly there is evidence he deliberately tried to hijack the remain campaign as he wanted to leave.

If there isn't he certainly didn't try very hard.

He's an absolutely shit leader hell bent on revenge on the centre and centre left wings of the party.

Was a bit odd for Cameron to say that, but then again I think even Tories want some sort of effective opposition and Labour under Corbyn can't provide that.

OK, but he was elected by an overwhelming majority. For what it's worth, and although I don't agree with most of his politics, I have Corbyn down as being a resolute and morally upstanding bloke who's always put his cards on the table and told it as he sees it. I have incredible admiration for the guy. I just can't understand how a bunch of folk who so staunchly backed him in the leadership campaign can now turn on him like they have. Much of it is actually objectionable and borders on personal abuse. I honestly think that the guy deserves much better treatment that he's currently getting, especially from those who supported him very recently.

Lots in the parliamentary party didn't back him. He got in via changed party leadership election rules. But many in the party did not want him.

Corbyn and his supporters are pretty vicious and I think when you have one of (IMO) the most decent politicians of modern times in Alan Johnson say he doesn't want Corbyn I think that pretty much says everything that needs saying. In my view at least.

Labour need to be credible. Corbyn is the least credible option they have by a mile.

I think it is in everyone's interest that there is an electorally credible Labour Party to oppose Boris, if he becomes Tory leader. It is critical.

T'other Milliband would dwarf Boris, and here's summat, I reckon that in that situation I'd vote for him too.

[Worthy4England]

Can one of you explain this rounding on Jeremy Corbyn please? What's he done so wrong? He doesn't strike me as having had a hidden agenda - quite the opposite in fact. I see that Cameron's chucked his oar in now. What the feck has it to do with him? This isn't a matter of national importance at all.

Supposedly there is evidence he deliberately tried to hijack the remain campaign as he wanted to leave.

If there isn't he certainly didn't try very hard.

He's an absolutely shit leader hell bent on revenge on the centre and centre left wings of the party.

Was a bit odd for Cameron to say that, but then again I think even Tories want some sort of effective opposition and Labour under Corbyn can't provide that.

OK, but he was elected by an overwhelming majority. For what it's worth, and although I don't agree with 8most of his politics, I have Corbyn down as being a resolute and morally upstanding bloke who's always put his cards on the table and told it as he sees it. I have incredible admiration for the guy. I just can't understand how a bunch of folk who so staunchly backed him in the leadership campaign can now turn on him like they have. Much of it is actually objectionable and borders on personal abuse. I honestly think that the guy deserves much better treatment that he's currently getting, especially from those who supported him very recently.

Some of that's not quite true. The PLP nominate the candidates (so sitting MP's/MEP's), Corbyn was bottom of that list and only got in because some MP's wanted to "broaden the debate" in a theoretical sense so "lent him" their nomination in a "let's all be fluffy" Labour spirit. So he started off with 15% PLP support not overwhelming support.

[bobo the clown]

^^ correct. He then used Miliband's new selection process to front load his support with those who certainly not Social Democrat types.

They are still members. They will get more. Unite made their policy section effectively a membership recruitment army. GMB too.

In the past year in.city constituencies and in University towns local LP'S are finding lots of new members. The plan is to deselect those MP's to the centre & right. We don't yet know how set that thinking is. We're soon to find out.

[Worthy4England]

^^ correct. He then used Miliband's new selection process to front load his support with those who certainly not Social Democrat types.

They are still members. They will get more. Unite made their policy section effectively a membership recruitment army. GMB too.

In the past year in.city constituencies and in University towns local LP'S are finding lots of new members. The plan is to deselect those MP's to the centre & right. We don't yet know how set that thinking is. We're soon to find out.

I don't doubt it and know how it works. I was at one time a Labour Party member and TU Rep. You'll be pleased to know I once got called "Thatcher's puppet" after a speech to a TU conference. I think this is only going to end one way, with another muppet, too left to ever get an electoral concensus.

[BWFC_Insane]

See some Labour MPs who have signed the motion of no confidence against Corbyn have gone to the police complaining of receiving death threats.

[Bijou Bob]

Soooooo, in order to rid themselves of Jezza, the PLP are sending in a really big hitter..........er, Angela Eagle. Yes, THAT Angela Eagle, the one whose appearance in support of Remain was so ineffectual and poor she became a virtual laughing stock on the night of the ITV debate.

It says everything to me that none of the centrist MP's have had the spine to stand. It smacks of rank cowardice or shambolic organisation. The Tories must be quaking in their boots, or at least they might have been if Jezza wasn't now nailed on for another victory.

[Harry Genshaw]

Can one of you explain this rounding on Jeremy Corbyn please? What's he done so wrong? He doesn't strike me as having had a hidden agenda - quite the opposite in fact. I see that Cameron's chucked his oar in now. What the feck has it to do with him? This isn't a matter of national importance at all.

Agreed. I keep hearing he's unelectable but in each by election under him Labour have increased their share of the vote. Perhaps he was slowly bringing the electorate round to him? The thing is, despite all the overwhelming support he has amongst the membership those with the loudest voices have it in for him. He'll do well to get past this weekend

[Worthy4England]

Short on big hitters to be fair, but then again how many would've picked David Cameron out of the hat for Tory's when he got elected? Hardly known outside the party, probably.

Eagle not the answer. Her performance was better than Corbyn for remain, at least you knew which side she was on.

Gisela Stewart acquitted herself credibly (although couldn't see a Brexiteer coming through)

Keir Starmer doesn't seem to want the hassle, Tristram Hunt didn't fancy it...Stella Creasey refused a nomination.

Tis a quandry.

[Prufrock]

It's a case of finding one single person, anyone, left enough to win enough nutters over to get rid of him. I reckon lots of the more highly rated young uns dont want it. Poisoned chalice. Let someone else do the dirty work if sitting the party out and at least getting back to looking like they're at least trying to win an election.

Bruce, re: the desire to get rid of him. Remember Owen Coyle. Nice chap, heart in the right place, but utterly hopeless, out of his depth, and out of the public eye, not actually that nice a chap at all.

[Worthy4England]

Can one of you explain this rounding on Jeremy Corbyn please? What's he done so wrong? He doesn't strike me as having had a hidden agenda - quite the opposite in fact. I see that Cameron's chucked his oar in now. What the feck has it to do with him? This isn't a matter of national importance at all.

Agreed. I keep hearing he's unelectable but in each by election under him Labour have increased their share of the vote. Perhaps he was slowly bringing the electorate round to him? The thing is, despite all the overwhelming support he has amongst the membership those with the loudest voices have it in for him. He'll do well to get past this weekend

We keep talking about the membership and democracy. Are the Labour MP's (or any other parties MP's for that matter) there to be at the behest of 121,000 reasonably organised left wingers (Corbyn's first round vote) or to use their judgement on behalf of the 9.3m voters that voted for them? The electorate voted for their MP, a party and its manifesto and if the people they voted for don't believe that their leader can do a decent job in opposition around those broad manifesto directives, then I think they're bob on to oust him.

[bobo the clown]

He has a legitimacy ... from last year's vote. It's clear and unequivocal.

Except the vote was by a membership who are not natural Labour Party members (as it has been, the social democrat party .. the "electable" party). It was hijacked. As Margaret Hodge pointed out (rather late in the day) the people outside rallying for him on Monday evening were members of the SWO. Of Momentum. Of "the usual suspects" at these protests.

But there are 's lot of these people. Theoretical fools that they are. They are activist. They signed up and voted him in. They will do so again.

The MP's probably reflect Worthy's 9.3m voters better than Jeremy's activists but it is they who are out of kilter with the membership and it's the membership who will vote.

There will be a full blown split. Made worse by the fact that many, many traditional Labour voters with right wing social mentality list their UKIP virginity last week and could well never come back. Maybe the UK deserves a properly organised Marxist-Leninist/ Trotskyist party. But really they should have created their own rather than pirating another. But it's done now.

Unless the moderates can mobilise new voting members the way the Trots did it's all over for the party of Wilson, Gaitskill, Smith, Callaghan, Blair, Brown. Michael Foot may have won the long game.

[Beefheart]

He has a legitimacy ... from last year's vote. It's clear and unequivocal.

Except the vote was by a membership who are not natural Labour Party members (as it has been, the social democrat party .. the "electable" party). It was hijacked. As Margaret Hodge pointed out (rather late in the day) the people outside rallying for him on Monday evening were members of the SWO. Of Momentum. Of "the usual suspects" at these protests.

But there are 's lot of these people. Theoretical fools that they are. They are activist. They signed up and voted him in. They will do so again.

The MP's probably reflect Worthy's 9.3m voters better than Jeremy's activists but it is they who are out of kilter with the membership and it's the membership who will vote.

There will be a full blown split. Made worse by the fact that many, many traditional Labour voters with right wing social mentality list their UKIP virginity last week and could well never come back. Maybe the UK deserves a properly organised Marxist-Leninist/ Trotskyist party. But really they should have created their own rather than pirating another. But it's done now.

Unless the moderates can mobilise new voting members the way the Trots did it's all over for the party of Wilson, Gaitskill, Smith, Callaghan, Blair, Brown. Michael Foot may have won the long game.

Problem is it's not these £3 Trots who you see posting leaflets and canvassing come election time. They'd rather share made up shit about how well Corbyn is, and how evil Laura Kuenssberg is, on social media.

[Bruce Rioja]

Can one of you explain this rounding on Jeremy Corbyn please? What's he done so wrong? He doesn't strike me as having had a hidden agenda - quite the opposite in fact. I see that Cameron's chucked his oar in now. What the feck has it to do with him? This isn't a matter of national importance at all.

Supposedly there is evidence he deliberately tried to hijack the remain campaign as he wanted to leave.

If there isn't he certainly didn't try very hard.

He's an absolutely shit leader hell bent on revenge on the centre and centre left wings of the party.

Was a bit odd for Cameron to say that, but then again I think even Tories want some sort of effective opposition and Labour under Corbyn can't provide that.

OK, but he was elected by an overwhelming majority. For what it's worth, and although I don't agree with 8most of his politics, I have Corbyn down as being a resolute and morally upstanding bloke who's always put his cards on the table and told it as he sees it. I have incredible admiration for the guy. I just can't understand how a bunch of folk who so staunchly backed him in the leadership campaign can now turn on him like they have. Much of it is actually objectionable and borders on personal abuse. I honestly think that the guy deserves much better treatment that he's currently getting, especially from those who supported him very recently.

Some of that's not quite true. The PLP nominate the candidates (so sitting MP's/MEP's), Corbyn was bottom of that list and only got in because some MP's wanted to "broaden the debate" in a theoretical sense so "lent him" their nomination in a "let's all be fluffy" Labour spirit. So he started off with 15% PLP support not overwhelming support.

What he "started off with" is neither hither nor yon. It's what he ended up with. Why's he so 'unelectable'? You knew exactly what you were getting. This is my question - why's he now being rounded on?