Time to Bury one and get us out of this league? Home - Tuesday 18th 8.00pm

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Re: Time to Bury one and get us out of this league? Home - Tuesday 18th 8.00pm

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:37 am

For the record, I like Parky and think he's done an amazing job all told, and would keep him next season regardless of the fact we are likely to remain in this league. We won't in my view get better and given the squad will need a complete rebuild next season is looking very tricky as it is.

However, his comments on Madine, I just find bizarre. If there genuinely is an issue and Madine is being mardy, then sort it internally.

I don't know about anyone else, but I once dislocated and broke my shoulder playing 5 a-side. That left some ligament and muscle damage. Now, I'm not a professional athlete, but there were a few weeks when even getting out of bed produced pain I can only describe as intolerable. I cannot imagine being asked to play as a target man under those circumstances. However, on the flip side, I still was going to work and I didn't have painkilling injections available to me.

The comments from Parky though, show weakness and I think are ill advised.

As much as we are clearly very reliant on Madine, I don't think a home game against Bury warranted his replacement being Derik or Pratley. At Oldham where the game was a battle on an awful pitch, perhaps. But at home, we should have had Henry and/or Long in there at least.

I also understand why he doesn't want to break up the back three. But he must. It isn't working when teams sit deep against us. As Pru says we need wingers up the pitch.

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Re: Time to Bury one and get us out of this league? Home - Tuesday 18th 8.00pm

Post by LeverEnd » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:43 am

I think madine is definitely leaving (god's riddance) and doesn't give a shit about the club. I also think parky knows this so has nothing to lose by calling him out publicly. In fact it's the best thing he's done in the last few games.
We can do this without Madine. feck him up his stupid arse.
...

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Re: Time to Bury one and get us out of this league? Home - Tuesday 18th 8.00pm

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:50 am

LeverEnd wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:43 am
I think madine is definitely leaving (god's riddance) and doesn't give a shit about the club. I also think parky knows this so has nothing to lose by calling him out publicly. In fact it's the best thing he's done in the last few games.
We can do this without Madine. feck him up his stupid arse.
I think this is possibly reading too much into it.

I doubt that any decision has been made either way. I suspect it is literally Madine reporting a lot of pain and not feeling able to play, vs Parky being desperate for him to play.

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Re: Time to Bury one and get us out of this league? Home - Tuesday 18th 8.00pm

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:55 am

throwawayboltonian wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:52 am
That's sort of how I feel GM - with the way we're playing and capitulating a previous hefty points margin, I just can't see us getting points in the final two games, or rather the points we need to guarantee it even with our cushion. It might be negative, but I just can't see us getting more than a point from each game currently - I wouldn't be surprised if our shots on target in April sit in single figures.

I also find it interesting how Madine's injury is being interpreted depending on how he is rated. According to some it's a minor bruise and he's being soft; according to others it's a fairly serious one requiring an operation (admittedly with a rumour tag). No real comment for/against anyone, just found it interesting when I was browsing through this morning. Kinda exemplifies how difficult it can be to sort out the wheat from the chaff when it comes to news.
I think we'll do well to not lose Saturday. Nerves have gone. Also feel there is a little bit of tiredness in key players due to the schedule over Easter.

People say it is Port Vale, but these are exactly the teams we struggle against.

I'll say this now, I'd be more confident if we were playing Fleetwood Saturday, funnily enough. Think that suits us more, backs against the wall, battle against the odds, soak up pressure and strike, we've done well at that. Have a team rock up where people expect us to win, and we seem to bottle it, not every time, but often enough.

Trouble is we should win our last game, but the momentum has gone and nerves have sunk in. I honestly can't see where any goals are coming from now.

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Re: Time to Bury one and get us out of this league? Home - Tuesday 18th 8.00pm

Post by LeverEnd » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:59 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:50 am
LeverEnd wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:43 am
I think madine is definitely leaving (god's riddance) and doesn't give a shit about the club. I also think parky knows this so has nothing to lose by calling him out publicly. In fact it's the best thing he's done in the last few games.
We can do this without Madine. feck him up his stupid arse.
I think this is possibly reading too much into it.

I doubt that any decision has been made either way. I suspect it is literally Madine reporting a lot of pain and not feeling able to play, vs Parky being desperate for him to play.
Obviously I'm.speculating, and with anyone else I'd agree with you. Just that there always seems to be a subplot with madine. Can't wait to see the back of the prick. PP should be embarrassed by our over-reliance on him. There must be other big lumps out there who'd actually care about playing for us.
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Re: Time to Bury one and get us out of this league? Home - Tuesday 18th 8.00pm

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:02 am

Another thing to point out is that very clearly last night the bench were trying to get the back three to stop launching the ball towards ALF. Yet they (Dervite especially) kept doing exactly that, to obvious frustration.

And Howard, kept kicking it over everyone. Rather than the quick throw. One could see the frustration clearly on the sidelines.

Sure he might not have picked the right team, but the players still are better than they are showing, and must take a fair amount of the blame here. The blind panic was summed up when Taylor got in a mess on the touchline and Beevers trying to mop up booted the ball straight into his face from point blank range.

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Re: Time to Bury one and get us out of this league? Home - Tuesday 18th 8.00pm

Post by Peter Thompson » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:05 am

LeverEnd wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:43 am
I think madine is definitely leaving (god's riddance) and doesn't give a shit about the club. I also think parky knows this so has nothing to lose by calling him out publicly. In fact it's the best thing he's done in the last few games.
We can do this without Madine. feck him up his stupid arse.
Totally agree with Lever End - IMO Madine is an utter cnut, he thinks only about himself, he doesn't give a toss about the Bolton fans or achieving promotion - If I was Parkinson I would have made him play against Oldham and if he shirked it the fans could see what a cnut he really is. He's probably got fixed up for next season and won't risk tweaking his shoulder again.

I agree that its the best thing that PP has done in months - calling him out as a soft cnut. We can play without Madine but only if the midfield players can be arsed, they all hid last night, they didn't want the ball, they showed very little passion & desire and all just ambled about - in fact I would say the midfield bottled it last night....we rarely had more than 4 players who ventured over the half way line in the 1st half - it showed when Henry came on and started to run with the ball at pace, Vela's game / tempo improved as did Morais and we started to open them up - Spearing, Pratley & Derik just slowed the game down and barely broke sweat

It looked to me like Pratley's legs had gone very early on, he had no energy and looked like he didn't know what a football was, or how to pass or shoot, Derik just completely froze & looked lost.

If somehow Parkinson keeps his job next season, the club need to bring in an attacking coach to help him because Parkinson doesn't have a clue how to set a team up to actually attack.

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Re: Time to Bury one and get us out of this league? Home - Tuesday 18th 8.00pm

Post by dave the minion » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:13 am

Peter Thompson wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:05 am
If somehow Parkinson keeps his job next season, the club need to bring in an attacking coach to help him because Parkinson doesn't have a clue how to set a team up to actually attack.
We're second in the league.
We have the second highest goal difference.

Just saying, thats all.......

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Re: Time to Bury one and get us out of this league? Home - Tuesday 18th 8.00pm

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:39 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:37 am
I once dislocated and broke my shoulder playing 5 a-side. That left some ligament and muscle damage. Now, I'm not a professional athlete, but there were a few weeks when even getting out of bed produced pain I can only describe as intolerable. I cannot imagine being asked to play as a target man under those circumstances. However, on the flip side, I still was going to work and I didn't have painkilling injections available to me.
Much as we have our family tiffs, I have to agree with you on this. Madine's game, such as it is, is allegedly built around being a target man – holding up the ball having used physicality against centre-backs. I haven't done my shoulder but I know people who have, and it's incredibly painful to even move let alone to purposefully barge into things.

More relevantly, at Southend, once he'd injured it Madine was a passenger, unable to throw himself around in the required fashion. Some might say "unwilling" rather than "unable", but that's guesswork, often informed by emotion rather than intellect; same goes for the rather lurid tattle that this bloke who's apparently useless has already organised a move for next year – presumably to a Championship club, considering we're still 1/5 odds-on to go up and the manager here has clearly built a system around him. Honestly, who do these flap-gobbed 2+2ers think he's signed up with? Sheffield United?

I'm not sure how much a painkilling injection would work but I'm sure it's a question being asked by Parky of Allamby. Even if we could get 45 minutes out of him, or maybe even the last 30 as a more direct option if all else fails, it might be worth a go.

But whatever the system, whatever the personnel, they have to stop panicking, recognise their superior skill – these are often players on upper-league wages against lads fighting relegation to the basement – and play the ball on the floor. The midfielders have to demand the ball off the centre-backs, and the manager has to tell Howard to turn his f**king boots down.

We have enough to win these last two games, and certainly to get the 4pts which would almost certainly suffice. But as has been noted, the hardest opposition may not be Vale or Posh but ourselves.

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Re: Time to Bury one and get us out of this league? Home - Tuesday 18th 8.00pm

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:42 am

What wouldn't I give right now for a Kevin Davies. As a matter of fact, what's he up to and has he still got his boots? When I think of that dislocated finger.....
Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

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Re: Time to Bury one and get us out of this league? Home - Tuesday 18th 8.00pm

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:47 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:39 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:37 am
I once dislocated and broke my shoulder playing 5 a-side. That left some ligament and muscle damage. Now, I'm not a professional athlete, but there were a few weeks when even getting out of bed produced pain I can only describe as intolerable. I cannot imagine being asked to play as a target man under those circumstances. However, on the flip side, I still was going to work and I didn't have painkilling injections available to me.
Much as we have our family tiffs, I have to agree with you on this. Madine's game, such as it is, is allegedly built around being a target man – holding up the ball having used physicality against centre-backs. I haven't done my shoulder but I know people who have, and it's incredibly painful to even move let alone to purposefully barge into things.

More relevantly, at Southend, once he'd injured it Madine was a passenger, unable to throw himself around in the required fashion. Some might say "unwilling" rather than "unable", but that's guesswork, often informed by emotion rather than intellect; same goes for the rather lurid tattle that this bloke who's apparently useless has already organised a move for next year – presumably to a Championship club, considering we're still 1/5 odds-on to go up and the manager here has clearly built a system around him. Honestly, who do these flap-gobbed 2+2ers think he's signed up with? Sheffield United?

I'm not sure how much a painkilling injection would work but I'm sure it's a question being asked by Parky of Allamby. Even if we could get 45 minutes out of him, or maybe even the last 30 as a more direct option if all else fails, it might be worth a go.

But whatever the system, whatever the personnel, they have to stop panicking, recognise their superior skill – these are often players on upper-league wages against lads fighting relegation to the basement – and play the ball on the floor. The midfielders have to demand the ball off the centre-backs, and the manager has to tell Howard to turn his f**king boots down.

We have enough to win these last two games, and certainly to get the 4pts which would almost certainly suffice. But as has been noted, the hardest opposition may not be Vale or Posh but ourselves.
I hope the belief is there in the lads. I do struggle to see it. The midfield (bar Vela) hid and didn't want the ball. How many times was Beevers or Dervite left with no option but to punt it?

I agree re the conspiracy theories. Ridiculous.

I do wonder though what has happened to us, because it feels very very different to just a few weeks back. I mean we've not just collapsed, we've completely fallen apart it seems. 1 goal in 5 games. Even I didn't see it being THAT bad. One does wonder if something has gone on behind the scenes ala Coyle and Wemberley.....

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Re: Time to Bury one and get us out of this league? Home - Tuesday 18th 8.00pm

Post by LeverEnd » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:47 am

The question is would PP publicly suggest a player was being soft if he genuinely thought he had a serious injury? I don't think he would.
Given Madine's history of being an absolute dick i think its not unreasonable to speculate that there's something else going on and wonder what it is. If that constitutes 'flap gobbery' then I'm guilty as charged.
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Re: Time to Bury one and get us out of this league? Home - Tuesday 18th 8.00pm

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:00 am

TANGODANCER wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:42 am
What wouldn't I give right now for a Kevin Davies. As a matter of fact, what's he up to and has he still got his boots? When I think of that dislocated finger.....
Dislocated finger - pop it in and play on. It's inconsequential, unless you don't pop it back straight and manage to shatter the knuckle.
Dislocated Shoulder - at the nth time - maybe pop it in and play on.
Dislocated Shoulder - 1st go - depends on how far it's dislocated and how it went back. If he doesn't have rotation in it and can't lift it above 90 degrees because the ligaments ripped, then he's probably not going to be much use jumping (although could probably run about fine)

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Re: Time to Bury one and get us out of this league? Home - Tuesday 18th 8.00pm

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:04 am

As someone that thinks Madine is soft as shite and wouldn't run through a brick wall for anyone, even himself, I think it's too easy to blame him for all and sundry. Park has to take responsibility for not doing enough to set us up to play to ALF's and Long's strengths. We've players that haven't had a look in, even understanding match fitness was lacking at first. The Viv fella is supposedly fast and can play wing or central. We have a willing fast un in Long. Karacan is supposed to be fairly decent and I'm sure with some game time could deliver a bit more drive and pass the ball. Henry has been underwhelming, but is the most likely to create a bit of magic. Warbara must be up to speed by now which would allow a back 4 to accommodate something different going forward.

We've struggled without Madine not because he's anything more than a passable target, but because we're not playing to the strengths of what we have got going forward. Our midfielders have performed in the Championship and even the Premiership and whilst they may not be the greatest I do not believe they are incapable of stringing a couple of passes together that could bother League 1/2 defenders occasionally.

For me the last few weeks is on Parky and the players on the pitch. That said, whatever happens we've done better than I thought we could, so will be more disappointed than pissed if we continue to bollocks it up.

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Re: Time to Bury one and get us out of this league? Home - Tuesday 18th 8.00pm

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:16 am

Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:04 am
As someone that thinks Madine is soft as shite and wouldn't run through a brick wall for anyone, even himself, I think it's too easy to blame him for all and sundry. Park has to take responsibility for not doing enough to set us up to play to ALF's and Long's strengths. We've players that haven't had a look in, even understanding match fitness was lacking at first. The Viv fella is supposedly fast and can play wing or central. We have a willing fast un in Long. Karacan is supposed to be fairly decent and I'm sure with some game time could deliver a bit more drive and pass the ball. Henry has been underwhelming, but is the most likely to create a bit of magic. Warbara must be up to speed by now which would allow a back 4 to accommodate something different going forward.

We've struggled without Madine not because he's anything more than a passable target, but because we're not playing to the strengths of what we have got going forward. Our midfielders have performed in the Championship and even the Premiership and whilst they may not be the greatest I do not believe they are incapable of stringing a couple of passes together that could bother League 1/2 defenders occasionally.

For me the last few weeks is on Parky and the players on the pitch. That said, whatever happens we've done better than I thought we could, so will be more disappointed than pissed if we continue to bollocks it up.
I think Madine does an awful lot for the team that goes unnoticed. For example when we get a throw in he goes down the line to win the header. Small things like that can combine to make quite a big difference.

I still think our problem is one of outlets. When there is no Madine the back three have nowhere to go. No easy pass to get us up the pitch. That is the main issue. And I'm not sure it is fixable with anyone in our side. The midfield is what it is, and anyone watching last night can clearly see they aren't going to be playing silky through balls. Our threat since Ameobi and Clough went has been Morais crosses. Teams have started doubling up on him and his crosses also rely on a target.

I'd like to see Henry play, but again his final product seems lacking as well.

The issue is we don't create chances other than knocking balls into the box. Without a physical presence in there, the chances we create are few and far between.

Listening to Radio Manc last night with Super John on and Steve Eyre (Chesterfield asst manager) who have both seen us a lot this season, their view pre-match was that it is probably unrealistic to think a team is going to be able to change how it plays just because a single player is out. But that perhaps letting Proctor go was a mistake, because at least he could be a target should Madine be out. As much as Proctor was awful, I do think there is a fair point there. He'd go with Alf far better than Long (who does little off the ball to be honest).

Beevers sums it up...

http://www.burndenaces.co.uk/2017/04/19 ... adine.html

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Re: Time to Bury one and get us out of this league? Home - Tuesday 18th 8.00pm

Post by General Mannerheim » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:31 am

I once dislocated my shoulder and broke my collar bone skiing, i was back on the slopes the very next day with my plastercast arm in a sling sending it down the Le Brevent black!! granted i didnt have any hairy arse centre halfs climbing all over me for 90 minutes but even so...

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Re: Time to Bury one and get us out of this league? Home - Tuesday 18th 8.00pm

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:33 am

General Mannerheim wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:31 am
I once dislocated my shoulder and broke my collar bone skiing, i was back on the slopes the very next day with my plastercast arm in a sling sending it down the Le Brevent black!! granted i didnt have any hairy arse centre halfs climbing all over me for 90 minutes but even so...
Depends what ligament and soft tissue damage you did.

When I was doing physio, my physio told me that breaks can often leave very little pain if you are lucky. But that in my case the ligament/tissue damage was what caused the agony!

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Re: Time to Bury one and get us out of this league? Home - Tuesday 18th 8.00pm

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:00 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:33 am
General Mannerheim wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:31 am
I once dislocated my shoulder and broke my collar bone skiing, i was back on the slopes the very next day with my plastercast arm in a sling sending it down the Le Brevent black!! granted i didnt have any hairy arse centre halfs climbing all over me for 90 minutes but even so...
Depends what ligament and soft tissue damage you did.

When I was doing physio, my physio told me that breaks can often leave very little pain if you are lucky. But that in my case the ligament/tissue damage was what caused the agony!
Yup - I've done both my shoulders a few times (playing rugby - now they pop out swimming in salt water just because of the buoyancy) - There isn't generally a problem (other than some pain) in getting back on the pitch, but if the ligaments aren't allowing movement in the arm, then not much use really.

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Re: Time to Bury one and get us out of this league? Home - Tuesday 18th 8.00pm

Post by Hoboh » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:18 am

Nadine is not Kevin Davies and tbh would probably be a waste of a shirt, first bump off a bruiser and he'd go missing.

From all I have read and people I have spoken to it seems Parky is a one plan man and it smacks of too much time spent in training playing one way hence the inability to adapt to differing circumstances that have been forced upon us.

Even BSA needed time to get the better players at Palace to adapt from what they had been used to, Parky has had time to perfect a plan B and it seems he hasn't, hell at this level most of our players are not donkeys.

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Re: Time to Bury one and get us out of this league? Home - Tuesday 18th 8.00pm

Post by dave the minion » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:24 am

I'll say it again:

We're second in the league.
We have the second highest goal difference.

If Parky has just one plan, then in my book it's not a bad plan to be honest......

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