creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

[Worthy4England]

It's all relative though. We could win games elsewhere scoring those runs, but on the pitches this series 400 hasn't been competitive. Scoring a nice 80 might help get a result at headingly on a green topper but doesn't but a dent in the opposition when they're going to get 600.

As for getting more out of the surface, how many wickets have we lost this series die to genuinely brilliant unplayable bowling? I've lost count on the other hand of how many times we've just given it away cheaply. Even in this test where he's scored 190 moeen has got out to two of the worst shots you'll see.

The hardest thing in cricket is getting in and getting to 20. Once you're in it should get easier and easier. We've too many who just throw it away.

Yes but lots of teams say the same when Jimmy and Broad bowl at them at say, Edgbaston on a cloudy day in July. Its the pressure of quality bowling in those conditions rather than every wicket being a brilliant ball. I get the point, we aren't good generally at batting out long periods. I'd argue though that we're not abnormally poor at it. We just look that way when we can't bowl the other side out for anything approaching a modest total. As would most teams.

We've given them 849 runs after dropped catches. That's more than a quarter of the runs they scored in the series.

First Test, First Innings - Three Drops - Vijay, Saha, Shami - cost us 98 - that would have been 150 lead instead of 50 for us and a shitload of saved overs.
Two drops in the Second Innings cost us another 30...and more time.

Second Test, First Innings - Kholi and Ashwin drops - cost us 152 - that's a lead to them of 50 instead of 200.

Third Test, First Innings - 4 drops, didn't actually cost us much but the Indian lead would have been less than 100 rather than 130ish.

Fourth Test - Dropped Kholi, Yadav and Kumar - who then scored an additional 276 runs. We'd have had a first innings lead, instead we got beaten by an innings and 36

Fifth Test - Dropped Nair on 34...cost us 269. They'd have had a lead of 13 instead of 282

We take our catches and we probably win the first test, we still probably lose the second and third tests - anything might have happened in the fourth and fifth tests, but difficult to put too much blame on the bowlers for dropped catches (yes I know they dropped some clangers too)...

[BWFC_Insane]

Agreed on catches. It is a problem. Again though it highlights we didn't create many chances, given how costly some of those drops were. I also think teams catch more when they feel like they are in the game as a fielding side. When you feel that one opportunity will be it for another 100 runs, it tends to lead to more dropped catches. Not excusing it, its poor fielding. But still, I think if you add a good spinner into that side we'd have been far more competitive even with the batting and fielding issues.

[Worthy4England]

It doesn't highlight us not creating a lot of chances - It doesn't highlight the ones that didn't quite carry, the ones that went through gully when there was none, because we had a defensive field set (because we'd dropped catches), the ones that were actually out but we'd run out of referrals (Vijay springs to mind in last Indian innings). Also - and this is important - some of them were dropped more than once. I only counted the first drop!

I don't disagree with your contention that our bowlers didn't perform as well as they might and that our spinners aren't good enough - I'm just pointing to there being a lot of other elements that hardly went swimmingly too, including our batting frailties and our fielding woopsies.

Combine all three and you're on the wrong end of a 4-0 stuffing.

[Bruce Rioja]

Aren't we long since past the time at which the BBC should put Boycott out to grass. The foolish old c*nt has never had one decent piece of constructive criticism about anything. I actually think that he enjoys seeing us get monumentally crushed just so that he can play up to his own caricature.

Seriously, chaps, before the series started did anybody realistically expect much other than what's happened? We'd just lost to Bangladesh FFS!

[Worthy4England]

It ran pretty close to my expectations Brucie. Didn't expect much else here. But it wasn't just the bowling at fault for me.

We've played way more Test Cricket than most other nations - bound to become jaded at some point.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Aren't we long since past the time at which the BBC should put Boycott out to grass. The foolish old c*nt has never had one decent piece of constructive criticism about anything. I actually think that he enjoys seeing us get monumentally crushed just so that he can play up to his own caricature.

Seriously, chaps, before the series started did anybody realistically expect much other than what's happened? We'd just lost to Bangladesh FFS!

They tend to keep chaps on long past their 'best by' date. Dennis Compton often used to turn up on the Third Program (radio for you young chaps) somewhat under the influence. I'll never forget John Arlott commentating "And Statham comes in from the gasworks end..." followed by the most enormous crash. He then continued " Oh, Dennis is back from lunch."

[jimbo]

Along with Vic Marks, Boycott is the most insightful of the summarisers on TMS. Yes hes brash and likes to labour the point but he's very perceptive and usually correct.

[Worthy4England]

Along with Vic Marks, Boycott is the most insightful of the summarisers on TMS. Yes hes brash and likes to labour the point but he's very perceptive and usually correct.

Grumpy owd git was a bugger to bowl against too (only in nets) but yes, he's not often too wide of the mark.

[Bruce Rioja]

Along with Vic Marks, Boycott is the most insightful of the summarisers on TMS. Yes hes brash and likes to labour the point but he's very perceptive and usually correct.

OK, so on Tuesday all he had to say was that the coaches should be sacked. That was all. Brilliant!

[jimbo]

Out of interest were you listening to the full TMS coverage or the end of day summary on radio 5? I don't think he comes across the best on the latter, often speaking in boycott cliches about rubbish, pinnies and rhubarb. On TMS however he's really perceptive and makes astute observations time and time again. Comments tend to be constructive and informative.

As I said, I enjoy his and Vic Marks input. On the other hand can't stand Vaughan.....

[Bruce Rioja]

Out of interest were you listening to the full TMS coverage or the end of day summary on radio 5? I don't think he comes across the best on the latter, often speaking in boycott cliches about rubbish, pinnies and rhubarb. On TMS however he's really perceptive and makes astute observations time and time again. Comments tend to be constructive and informative.

As I said, I enjoy his and Vic Marks input. On the other hand can't stand Vaughan.....

It was indeed his end of the test summary. My natural reaction to hearing his dull Yorkshire tone though is one of "Oh, feck off, Boycott"

[Worthy4England]

Cricketer Gary Ballance may have to miss a championship match because he is colour blind. He could be forced to miss Yorkshire's pink-ball County Championship fixture against Surrey as he could struggle to see the ball and differentiate it from the grass. "If I can't see it, I can't see it. There's nothing I can do," he said

He needs to get checked out for "red" too. Didn't see many of them feck* last time he played for England.

[TANGODANCER]

Bad day at the office? Better believe it. Fortunately already won the series two up; good job because the Boks absolutely slated us today in the one-day. 154 was all they needed (they got it losing three wickets) . At one stage we were 21-6. Only Bairstow-51, Willet and Roland Jones (who I'll admit to never even seeing on the box) made a bit of a fight of it. We got a good hiding.

[Nicko58]

Bad day at the office? Better believe it. Fortunately already won the series two up; good job because the Boks absolutely slated us today in the one-day. 154 was all they needed (they got it losing three wickets) . At one stage we were 21-6. Only Bairstow-51, Willet and Roland Jones (who I'll admit to never even seeing on the box) made a bit of a fight of it. We got a good hiding.

Relax, Tango. We're a bloody good one-day team.

[TANGODANCER]

Bad day at the office? Better believe it. Fortunately already won the series two up; good job because the Boks absolutely slated us today in the one-day. 154 was all they needed (they got it losing three wickets) . At one stage we were 21-6. Only Bairstow-51, Willet and Roland Jones (who I'll admit to never even seeing on the box) made a bit of a fight of it. We got a good hiding.

Relax, Tango. We're a bloody good one-day team.

Oh, we are, it's just that at 21-6 we didn't quite look it.

[BWFC_Insane]

It is a weakness of the way we play in that every so often our aggressive batting line up will collapse. Not many natural "stick arounders" in there. So this will happen every now and again.

Still in the modern game I think it is the right approach. 320 now is a par score. So you need a side packed with big hitters (unless you have some amazing natural fast scoring stroke players like India). Every now and again you will just come unstuck and have to hope it happens at the right times....like when you're 2-0 up in a 3 game series

[TANGODANCER]

V Bangladesh starts today. Bring it on ....

[BWFC_Insane]

Why take your one day specialist wicket taking spinner out for another quick man? I don't get it. We've built around two spinners for ages.

England have made a mess out of this. Should still be able to chase anything down with our batting, but made it more difficult than it needed to be.

Brought Ball in who is getting thumped around at nearly 8 an over.

[TANGODANCER]

Bangladesh 305-6 at inning's end.

[TANGODANCER]

Comfortable in the end with Root and Morgan totally in control. Couple of hairy moments, but then there always are.