Reconstruction time again: the summer 2018 transfer thread

[mullayo]

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/16 ... o-pay-row/

And here it is. Our weekly 'need seven signings' reminder.

[BWFC_Insane]

I don't really see loans as being the answer, necessarily. Robinson was okay, but he's poor defensively and we'd be developing a player for another club's profit. Ideally I'd like to see us work hard to add permanent players. I get the feeling a lot of fans are so jaded and so negative that they view contracted players as liabilities rather than assets. We've had players on too much money and long contracts and we've got used to wanting players gone. We need to get back to thinking of resale value and player trading.

Having spoken to people and had a look at various options, there's more available out there than I'd realised this summer. When you look at players like Miquel Nelom and Stefan Stangl who are on frees and whose agents are looking to get them moves to the Championship, there are players in problem positions who could suit us very well.

Loans, if we use them, should have clauses allowing us to buy the player if we develop him. When you're just loaning youngsters to grow them for other clubs you're losing money. We are a lower league club and we have got to start developing and redeveloping players who we can then sell.

I think we still need 5 first team players. Loans won't cut it.

You can get great quality on loan. Don't agree Robinson was "okay". He learned as he went but by the end he was bloody good.

Ideally a mix, develop your own talent whilst benefiting in the here and now from a few of the better loans out there.

[BWFC_Insane]

I don't really see loans as being the answer, necessarily. Robinson was okay, but he's poor defensively and we'd be developing a player for another club's profit. Ideally I'd like to see us work hard to add permanent players. I get the feeling a lot of fans are so jaded and so negative that they view contracted players as liabilities rather than assets. We've had players on too much money and long contracts and we've got used to wanting players gone. We need to get back to thinking of resale value and player trading.

Having spoken to people and had a look at various options, there's more available out there than I'd realised this summer. When you look at players like Miquel Nelom and Stefan Stangl who are on frees and whose agents are looking to get them moves to the Championship, there are players in problem positions who could suit us very well.

Loans, if we use them, should have clauses allowing us to buy the player if we develop him. When you're just loaning youngsters to grow them for other clubs you're losing money. We are a lower league club and we have got to start developing and redeveloping players who we can then sell.

I think we still need 5 first team players. Loans won't cut it.

Obviously in an ideal world. But we're cash strapped and LeeAn can't seem to get any signatures over the line...

3 weeks ago Mystery Champ striker on the cards - No-one...
2 weeks ago, Illes predicted "a couple of signings by the weekend" - Nothing...
Mystery player spotted at Lofton pre-season training - Nowt...
Hooking up with a few other targets in Scotland - Och nay...
Lee Anderson's holiday buddy Joao Tex all-but guaranteed according to foreign media - Nada...
A week ago we had "One signing was close to completion on Friday, and a couple of others have progressed during the weekend..." - nothing there either.

Olki midweek out of the blue but mostly the rumours just evaporate... and we bite at the next, like a dumb-ass donkey at a dangling carrot.
Monday expect Illes or NIxon to announce we're closing in on a couple of deals... Meanwhile,maybe we start looking at Prem team fringe starter loanees.

Rumours from Iles are about as much use a chocolate tea pot. I think you're getting carried away on baseless stuff.

Texeira or whatever he's called was not in any way guaranteed either. Foreign press simply said we were favourites. But like everything we probably have other options as well.

[GhostoftheBok]

Rumours from people related to BWFC are almost always wrong. Some people make a living generating BWFC stories and so they need a constant roll of information. Unrelated sources that link to us often have it right. So, when we wanted Anelka, it was the Turkish press that had that weeks before the BEN (as it was then) or others did. There's no reason for foreign media to think "let's give BWFC fans some clickbait" and so I tend to trust it more.

Robinson kind of makes my point, Insane. He was much improved by the end of his loan, but it was only by the end - then he goes back. So we bring in these young players, develop them over a season and knock some of the rough edges off, then we get a decent player for a few games before the loan is done. If you are relying on those players to fill 4-5 positions in a matchday squad then that's a good chunk of your team that isn't up there for most of the season and then doesn't benefit you much once they are. A couple of quality loans can be a good thing. A lot of loans and you're asking for trouble.

Filling out a match squad with loans is desperation. Now, we may well have to do it. As has been mentioned we are poor and lack players; but it really does need to be last resort stuff. The manager is clearly not happy about the lack of business and the lack of bonus payments, he was as clear as he could be whilst remaining absolutely respectful to the football club hierarchy. It looks like he and his team identify the targets and then had a list for each role to the Andersons who then take forever to get any deals done as they try to make every penny they don't have count.

This thread and all the speculation is lots of fun. It's how we pass the time in the summer, but ultimately what WE know/guess/think isn't at all important. We had no idea Olkowski was coming in until it was done. All that matters is the actual business being done. It's either getting there or it isn't. PP indicated that it's not fast enough for his liking and that'd be the only concern I'd have. Rumours not working out means nothing.

[BWFC_Insane]

Rumours from people related to BWFC are almost always wrong. Some people make a living generating BWFC stories and so they need a constant roll of information. Unrelated sources that link to us often have it right. So, when we wanted Anelka, it was the Turkish press that had that weeks before the BEN (as it was then) or others did. There's no reason for foreign media to think "let's give BWFC fans some clickbait" and so I tend to trust it more.

Robinson kind of makes my point, Insane. He was much improved by the end of his loan, but it was only by the end - then he goes back. So we bring in these young players, develop them over a season and knock some of the rough edges off, then we get a decent player for a few games before the loan is done. If you are relying on those players to fill 4-5 positions in a matchday squad then that's a good chunk of your team that isn't up there for most of the season and then doesn't benefit you much once they are. A couple of quality loans can be a good thing. A lot of loans and you're asking for trouble.

Filling out a match squad with loans is desperation. Now, we may well have to do it. As has been mentioned we are poor and lack players; but it really does need to be last resort stuff. The manager is clearly not happy about the lack of business and the lack of bonus payments, he was as clear as he could be whilst remaining absolutely respectful to the football club hierarchy. It looks like he and his team identify the targets and then had a list for each role to the Andersons who then take forever to get any deals done as they try to make every penny they don't have count.

This thread and all the speculation is lots of fun. It's how we pass the time in the summer, but ultimately what WE know/guess/think isn't at all important. We had no idea Olkowski was coming in until it was done. All that matters is the actual business being done. It's either getting there or it isn't. PP indicated that it's not fast enough for his liking and that'd be the only concern I'd have. Rumours not working out means nothing.

Don't agree. Teams go up with good loans. Its a part of championship life. If for example Everton were prepared to loan out Robinson again, which is a possibility, we'd be mental not to take him.

[Prufrock]

Sammi was a loan, and we were in prime position to then sign him. Antoneeeeee improved loads by the end but is still unlikely to make it at Everton. We might be able to get him then. No guarantees, it isn't ideal and plenty don't work out but it's part of the game.

[mullayo]

I don't really see loans as being the answer, necessarily. Robinson was okay, but he's poor defensively and we'd be developing a player for another club's profit.
I think we still need 5 first team players. Loans won't cut it.

You can get great quality on loan. Don't agree Robinson was "okay". He learned as he went but by the end he was bloody good.

Ideally a mix, develop your own talent whilst benefiting in the here and now from a few of the better loans out there.

That's why I want him back. He should be even better this year. Walk into the same familiar environment and bloom some more, especially since he's an international now. Another year and he'll probably be playing first team football. We've put the work in with him now time to reap the rewards.

BTW I expect actual signings to start trickling in this week at last.

[GhostoftheBok]

Rumours from people related to BWFC are almost always wrong. Some people make a living generating BWFC stories and so they need a constant roll of information. Unrelated sources that link to us often have it right. So, when we wanted Anelka, it was the Turkish press that had that weeks before the BEN (as it was then) or others did. There's no reason for foreign media to think "let's give BWFC fans some clickbait" and so I tend to trust it more.

Robinson kind of makes my point, Insane. He was much improved by the end of his loan, but it was only by the end - then he goes back. So we bring in these young players, develop them over a season and knock some of the rough edges off, then we get a decent player for a few games before the loan is done. If you are relying on those players to fill 4-5 positions in a matchday squad then that's a good chunk of your team that isn't up there for most of the season and then doesn't benefit you much once they are. A couple of quality loans can be a good thing. A lot of loans and you're asking for trouble.

Filling out a match squad with loans is desperation. Now, we may well have to do it. As has been mentioned we are poor and lack players; but it really does need to be last resort stuff. The manager is clearly not happy about the lack of business and the lack of bonus payments, he was as clear as he could be whilst remaining absolutely respectful to the football club hierarchy. It looks like he and his team identify the targets and then had a list for each role to the Andersons who then take forever to get any deals done as they try to make every penny they don't have count.

This thread and all the speculation is lots of fun. It's how we pass the time in the summer, but ultimately what WE know/guess/think isn't at all important. We had no idea Olkowski was coming in until it was done. All that matters is the actual business being done. It's either getting there or it isn't. PP indicated that it's not fast enough for his liking and that'd be the only concern I'd have. Rumours not working out means nothing.

Don't agree. Teams go up with good loans. Its a part of championship life. If for example Everton were prepared to loan out Robinson again, which is a possibility, we'd be mental not to take him.

Most teams that do well with loans use them to augment a squad, not to build one. We are trying to rebuild the playing side of the club and establish a culture and mentality. That can't be achieved with large numbers of loan signings. Add in that loaning the better talent costs more than our permanent transfers thus far, given that Prem clubs now demand loan fees and full wage payments.

If we had a settled squad then it'd be less of an issue, but if we want to stabilise then we need permanent players.

A couple of good loan signings would be great. If we try to sign one or two more players and then use the loan system to do all the rest of the work then I don't see it going well.

Game of opinions, though. We'll see what goes on.

[GhostoftheBok]

Sammi was a loan, and we were in prime position to then sign him. Antoneeeeee improved loads by the end but is still unlikely to make it at Everton. We might be able to get him then. No guarantees, it isn't ideal and plenty don't work out but it's part of the game.

Absolutely. I am in no way saying that loans are always a bad thing. Where I have an issue is with doing what, for example, Blackpool tried. Having a threadbare squad with players never staying more than 2 seasons and then covering the gaps with loans. It's a recipe for disaster.

We have to have a solid base to build from.

[The_Gun]

Rumours from people related to BWFC are almost always wrong. Some people make a living generating BWFC stories and so they need a constant roll of information. Unrelated sources that link to us often have it right. So, when we wanted Anelka, it was the Turkish press that had that weeks before the BEN (as it was then) or others did. There's no reason for foreign media to think "let's give BWFC fans some clickbait" and so I tend to trust it more.

Robinson kind of makes my point, Insane. He was much improved by the end of his loan, but it was only by the end - then he goes back. So we bring in these young players, develop them over a season and knock some of the rough edges off, then we get a decent player for a few games before the loan is done. If you are relying on those players to fill 4-5 positions in a matchday squad then that's a good chunk of your team that isn't up there for most of the season and then doesn't benefit you much once they are. A couple of quality loans can be a good thing. A lot of loans and you're asking for trouble.

Filling out a match squad with loans is desperation. Now, we may well have to do it. As has been mentioned we are poor and lack players; but it really does need to be last resort stuff. The manager is clearly not happy about the lack of business and the lack of bonus payments, he was as clear as he could be whilst remaining absolutely respectful to the football club hierarchy. It looks like he and his team identify the targets and then had a list for each role to the Andersons who then take forever to get any deals done as they try to make every penny they don't have count.

This thread and all the speculation is lots of fun. It's how we pass the time in the summer, but ultimately what WE know/guess/think isn't at all important. We had no idea Olkowski was coming in until it was done. All that matters is the actual business being done. It's either getting there or it isn't. PP indicated that it's not fast enough for his liking and that'd be the only concern I'd have. Rumours not working out means nothing.

Don't agree. Teams go up with good loans. Its a part of championship life. If for example Everton were prepared to loan out Robinson again, which is a possibility, we'd be mental not to take him.

Most teams that do well with loans use them to augment a squad, not to build one. We are trying to rebuild the playing side of the club and establish a culture and mentality. That can't be achieved with large numbers of loan signings. Add in that loaning the better talent costs more than our permanent transfers thus far, given that Prem clubs now demand loan fees and full wage payments.

If we had a settled squad then it'd be less of an issue, but if we want to stabilise then we need permanent players.

A couple of good loan signings would be great. If we try to sign one or two more players and then use the loan system to do all the rest of the work then I don't see it going well.

Game of opinions, though. We'll see what goes on.

Are you sure all Prem teams demand loan fees and full wage payment? You may be right, but I would've thought that would depend upon how in-demand the player was.

I'm also not saying we should be looking to build our squad mostly with loans, but what I am saying is that we need to aim for extremely high potential players for those we do bring in. As mentioned above, the right loan deals can have a massive impact for Championship teams. Bolton cannot afford to buy proven talent, so our options are either take risks on lower league players, develop our own talent, or use the loan system intelligently.

I don't know what our current relations are like with the top NW teams, but it would seem prudent for the Andersons to be making it known that the Macron (or whatever) is a place where their top young talent can get game time.

[GhostoftheBok]

When I say "better talents" I mean their more in-demand young players. There are almost certainly some talented lads who could be had for no fee and maybe lower wage payments, but they're likely to be the less developed players and harder to identify. Robinson was one of those, he wasn't known as a top talent and still may not cut it at Prem level - but he was identified as able to do a job for us. We had other loans go less well, though.

My view is that any loans we can get without our budget will probably be more of a risk than a permanent transfer - but that's a personal judgement.

There is money being spent in this division and Prem clubs, knowing that, are increasingly charging money to loan their players to clubs at this level. It used to be seen as mainly benefiting the Prem club, but these days the prize of going up is so great that clubs will pay money to loan young players who might give them an edge.

[BWFC_Insane]

Rumours from people related to BWFC are almost always wrong. Some people make a living generating BWFC stories and so they need a constant roll of information. Unrelated sources that link to us often have it right. So, when we wanted Anelka, it was the Turkish press that had that weeks before the BEN (as it was then) or others did. There's no reason for foreign media to think "let's give BWFC fans some clickbait" and so I tend to trust it more.

Robinson kind of makes my point, Insane. He was much improved by the end of his loan, but it was only by the end - then he goes back. So we bring in these young players, develop them over a season and knock some of the rough edges off, then we get a decent player for a few games before the loan is done. If you are relying on those players to fill 4-5 positions in a matchday squad then that's a good chunk of your team that isn't up there for most of the season and then doesn't benefit you much once they are. A couple of quality loans can be a good thing. A lot of loans and you're asking for trouble.

Filling out a match squad with loans is desperation. Now, we may well have to do it. As has been mentioned we are poor and lack players; but it really does need to be last resort stuff. The manager is clearly not happy about the lack of business and the lack of bonus payments, he was as clear as he could be whilst remaining absolutely respectful to the football club hierarchy. It looks like he and his team identify the targets and then had a list for each role to the Andersons who then take forever to get any deals done as they try to make every penny they don't have count.

This thread and all the speculation is lots of fun. It's how we pass the time in the summer, but ultimately what WE know/guess/think isn't at all important. We had no idea Olkowski was coming in until it was done. All that matters is the actual business being done. It's either getting there or it isn't. PP indicated that it's not fast enough for his liking and that'd be the only concern I'd have. Rumours not working out means nothing.

Don't agree. Teams go up with good loans. Its a part of championship life. If for example Everton were prepared to loan out Robinson again, which is a possibility, we'd be mental not to take him.

Most teams that do well with loans use them to augment a squad, not to build one. We are trying to rebuild the playing side of the club and establish a culture and mentality. That can't be achieved with large numbers of loan signings. Add in that loaning the better talent costs more than our permanent transfers thus far, given that Prem clubs now demand loan fees and full wage payments.

If we had a settled squad then it'd be less of an issue, but if we want to stabilise then we need permanent players.

A couple of good loan signings would be great. If we try to sign one or two more players and then use the loan system to do all the rest of the work then I don't see it going well.

Game of opinions, though. We'll see what goes on.

Only allowed up to 5 loans in a squad anyway.

I get what you mean, there are "loans" and there are "loans". But yeah balance is important. There's a Robinson for every Charsley (or whatever he was called).

[BWFC_Insane]

When I say "better talents" I mean their more in-demand young players. There are almost certainly some talented lads who could be had for no fee and maybe lower wage payments, but they're likely to be the less developed players and harder to identify. Robinson was one of those, he wasn't known as a top talent and still may not cut it at Prem level - but he was identified as able to do a job for us. We had other loans go less well, though.

My view is that any loans we can get without our budget will probably be more of a risk than a permanent transfer - but that's a personal judgement.

There is money being spent in this division and Prem clubs, knowing that, are increasingly charging money to loan their players to clubs at this level. It used to be seen as mainly benefiting the Prem club, but these days the prize of going up is so great that clubs will pay money to loan young players who might give them an edge.

I agree, our job is to pick the Robinson's the ones just behind the obvious candidates who will go to the top 6/7 clubs. Robinson a good example. We won't be getting the Tammy Abraham's of this world as much as I'm sure we'd love to.

[GhostoftheBok]

I think the increased cost of loaning Prem club's players is one of the reasons why a number of the loans done so far this season in the Championship has been for foreign imports from Germany, France, Portugal etc. Wages are lower in those leagues, even at youth level, and so the deals tend to be cheaper.

[The_Gun]

Rumours from people related to BWFC are almost always wrong. Some people make a living generating BWFC stories and so they need a constant roll of information. Unrelated sources that link to us often have it right. So, when we wanted Anelka, it was the Turkish press that had that weeks before the BEN (as it was then) or others did. There's no reason for foreign media to think "let's give BWFC fans some clickbait" and so I tend to trust it more.

Robinson kind of makes my point, Insane. He was much improved by the end of his loan, but it was only by the end - then he goes back. So we bring in these young players, develop them over a season and knock some of the rough edges off, then we get a decent player for a few games before the loan is done. If you are relying on those players to fill 4-5 positions in a matchday squad then that's a good chunk of your team that isn't up there for most of the season and then doesn't benefit you much once they are. A couple of quality loans can be a good thing. A lot of loans and you're asking for trouble.

Filling out a match squad with loans is desperation. Now, we may well have to do it. As has been mentioned we are poor and lack players; but it really does need to be last resort stuff. The manager is clearly not happy about the lack of business and the lack of bonus payments, he was as clear as he could be whilst remaining absolutely respectful to the football club hierarchy. It looks like he and his team identify the targets and then had a list for each role to the Andersons who then take forever to get any deals done as they try to make every penny they don't have count.

This thread and all the speculation is lots of fun. It's how we pass the time in the summer, but ultimately what WE know/guess/think isn't at all important. We had no idea Olkowski was coming in until it was done. All that matters is the actual business being done. It's either getting there or it isn't. PP indicated that it's not fast enough for his liking and that'd be the only concern I'd have. Rumours not working out means nothing.

Don't agree. Teams go up with good loans. Its a part of championship life. If for example Everton were prepared to loan out Robinson again, which is a possibility, we'd be mental not to take him.

Most teams that do well with loans use them to augment a squad, not to build one. We are trying to rebuild the playing side of the club and establish a culture and mentality. That can't be achieved with large numbers of loan signings. Add in that loaning the better talent costs more than our permanent transfers thus far, given that Prem clubs now demand loan fees and full wage payments.

If we had a settled squad then it'd be less of an issue, but if we want to stabilise then we need permanent players.

A couple of good loan signings would be great. If we try to sign one or two more players and then use the loan system to do all the rest of the work then I don't see it going well.

Game of opinions, though. We'll see what goes on.

Only allowed up to 5 loans in a squad anyway.

I get what you mean, there are "loans" and there are "loans". But yeah balance is important. There's a Robinson for every Charsley (or whatever he was called).

I don't think there necessarily have to be so many Charsleys, though. Obviously we won't hit on every deal, but too many of our loans last year were for players without much obvious upside.

[Prufrock]

Sammi was a loan, and we were in prime position to then sign him. Antoneeeeee improved loads by the end but is still unlikely to make it at Everton. We might be able to get him then. No guarantees, it isn't ideal and plenty don't work out but it's part of the game.

Absolutely. I am in no way saying that loans are always a bad thing. Where I have an issue is with doing what, for example, Blackpool tried. Having a threadbare squad with players never staying more than 2 seasons and then covering the gaps with loans. It's a recipe for disaster.

We have to have a solid base to build from.

Well...I agree! So there.

[GhostoftheBok]

Sammi was a loan, and we were in prime position to then sign him. Antoneeeeee improved loads by the end but is still unlikely to make it at Everton. We might be able to get him then. No guarantees, it isn't ideal and plenty don't work out but it's part of the game.

Absolutely. I am in no way saying that loans are always a bad thing. Where I have an issue is with doing what, for example, Blackpool tried. Having a threadbare squad with players never staying more than 2 seasons and then covering the gaps with loans. It's a recipe for disaster.

We have to have a solid base to build from.

Well...I agree! So there.

Them's fightin' words, mister.

[mullayo]

I think the increased cost of loaning Prem club's players is one of the reasons why a number of the loans done so far this season in the Championship has been for foreign imports from Germany, France, Portugal etc. Wages are lower in those leagues, even at youth level, and so the deals tend to be cheaper.

Good point.
As for the value of loanees.
There are different methods to get talent in.

Proven for our level = expensive. Can only afford a couple of these at Bolton ( NewStriker,...)

Frees (often overpay on wages instead of transfer fees) = less expensive (SAmeobi, Lowe, Hobbs, Rodwell )

Foreign (certain countries and leagues) = less expensive (Olki, Joao)

Lower level proven = less expensive (Ozzy)

Past their prime/injury prone = less expensive (Donaldson, Kirchoff, Rodwell, Henry)

Loanees = less expensive (Antonee)

Where you might want to go loanee (over past their prime/injury prone or lower level) is to get an athlete/speed/size...
Particularly true for certain positions like fullbacks, wingers and running mids. Hence LB, LW and quicker centreback.
Re-signing Antonee is a priority, he's a year ahead of whatever else we get.

[GhostoftheBok]

If we can get Robinson back for a full season, cool. As I understand it Everton failed to sign Luke Shaw. Galloway and Garbutt are apparently not seen as first team players this season. So Baines, with some injury issues, and Robinson are currently their options. If they let him go then maybe we'll get him, I dunno. I image we will have to wait and see. If another player comes up then I'd rather we sign them and not wait on the off chance we have another shot at Robinson. I've seen no hint of a left back option thus far, so I'm assuming we're in the dark on that one.

[GhostoftheBok]

As a general thing, my view is that the starting 11 is 5 players off being a good Championship side. A centre back, left back, midfielder who can pass a ball, winger and striker are all needed to strengthen our 11. As Parky has said, the squad needs 7. My expectation is that Parky may feel he doesn't need that starting midfielder and he needs 4 players for his 11. It's hard to see him wanting fewer.

We're now about 3 weeks shy of the deadline. Things need to happen. Whoever Anderson is after, he needs to pull his finger out.