Sajid Javid's Taxi Service.

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Sajid Javid's Taxi Service.

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:10 pm

What the fxck is going on.
Sajid Javid rushes back from a luxury Christmas holiday because 94 Iranian/Syrians have illegally motored across the English Channel on semiinflatables (costing up to £10,000 per person, apparently).
What The Fxck!!!
The Sunday Times, frothing at the (virtual) mouth, states this pile of tripe: "the operation appeared to descend into farce on Saturday as HMC Searcher sailed to Ramsgate, where it docked [Shock, Horror], leaving the world's busiest sea route unpatrolled... for at least six hours"

Fxcking hell, you can't begin to imagine how cut up about that I am. Really. Six hours when all the resource of our country isn't Totally dedicated to giving illegal immigrants a helping hand across the Channel!

We all need to take collective responsibility and weep copious tears. At least a weekend with flags lowered.

After that, if there are any Iranians or Syrians hanging around the hostile, uncivilised coasts of northern France desperate to reach the shores of Utopia, I can, for the cut rate price of a mere hundred quid per head, load you aboard a pedalo and then text HMC Searcher with your coordinates. Safety guaranteed, you'll probably not even get wet...

Lord West, former head of the Royal Navy [where do they drag these dickheads up from?], stated: "the number of patrol vessels in the Channel was Ridiculously Small, and left the UK vulnerable to illegal migration..." - No, you tit. We aren't shooting the fxckers out of the water, we aren't defending our fxcking borders. We're spending money making sure the illegal fxckers get over here Safe & Sound.
Last edited by Lost Leopard Spot on Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sajid Javid's Taxi Service.

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:29 pm

Dianne Abbott has stuff to say about it too: quote" OUR Coastguard have been doing their Very Best to manage this situation [*1] over the Christmas Holidays while the Home Secretary is still Nowhere To Be Seen [*2].

*1 the situation being the UK coastguard ferrying people over the Channel. A more official version of P&O Ferries.
*2 he was spotted in Sarf Africa actually, Di.
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Re: Sajid Javid's Taxi Service.

Post by TANGODANCER » Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:49 pm

Utopia we surely ain 't anymore Spots. Whoever is preaching the land of milk and honey song, free houses, free money, jobs galore etc,etc... on foreign shores should come and live in a housing estate or a big city block of high rise flats. "Come to U.K for a drug-fuelled alcholic stabbing experience. Come and get robbed by scooter theives, come and have your house burgled or your business set fire to..Join the homeless sleeping rough in the rain, ot if you're lucky get a job washing cars and sharing a room with only ten others... (Oh yes, did we mention it rains a lot over there?) ...All these things can be yours for a mere £10,000 including a fake passport"

"The chances of anything coming from Iran, are a million to one", he said..........and still they come....

It must be a lousy life for a lot of persecuted folk all over the world, but here in U.K, well, fings ain't quite what they used to be, and getting steadily worse.
The wisest and the best of men, nay, the wisest and best of their actions, may be rendered ridiculous by a person whose first object in life is a joke...Darcy. Pride and Prejudice.

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Re: Sajid Javid's Taxi Service.

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:01 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:49 pm
Utopia we surely ain 't anymore Spots. Whoever is preaching the land of milk and honey song, free houses, free money, jobs galore etc,etc... on foreign shores should come and live in a housing estate or a big city block of high rise flats. "Come to U.K for a drug-fuelled alcholic stabbing experience. Come and get robbed by scooter theives, come and have your house burgled or your business set fire to..Join the homeless sleeping rough in the rain, ot if you're lucky get a job washing cars and sharing a room with only ten others... (Oh yes, did we mention it rains a lot over there?) ...All these things can be yours for a mere £10,000 including a fake passport"

"The chances of anything coming from Iran, are a million to one", he said..........and still they come....

It must be a lousy life for a lot of persecuted folk all over the world, but here in U.K, well, fings ain't quite what they used to be, and getting steadily worse.
What really gets my fxcking goat Tango, is that these fxckers are already in France! Liberte, fraternite, egalite for fxcking fxck sake! The French turned their souls inside out and had an entire revolution just for these smarmy c xxxxx NTS to reject it for mammon.
They're crawling all over the planet like locusts...
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Re: Sajid Javid's Taxi Service.

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:10 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:49 pm
Utopia we surely ain 't anymore Spots. Whoever is preaching the land of milk and honey song, free houses, free money, jobs galore etc,etc... on foreign shores should come and live in a housing estate or a big city block of high rise flats. "Come to U.K for a drug-fuelled alcholic stabbing experience. Come and get robbed by scooter theives, come and have your house burgled or your business set fire to..Join the homeless sleeping rough in the rain, ot if you're lucky get a job washing cars and sharing a room with only ten others... (Oh yes, did we mention it rains a lot over there?) ...All these things can be yours for a mere £10,000 including a fake passport"

"The chances of anything coming from Iran, are a million to one", he said..........and still they come....

It must be a lousy life for a lot of persecuted folk all over the world, but here in U.K, well, fings ain't quite what they used to be, and getting steadily worse.
There's a lot wrong with the UK Tango, for sure, but there's also a hell of a lot right with it too. Generally, we're a tolerant, polite society that rewards hard work and looks after those who are unable to look after themselves. For many the UK is renowned for its language and it's sense of fair play.

I cant imagine what horrors some of those crossing have seen or the desperation to get into an inflatable and cross the busiest shipping lane in the world in December. Thankfully, of those that make it, the vast majority will enrich our country further and make a positive contribution to the UK.
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Re: Sajid Javid's Taxi Service.

Post by TANGODANCER » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:08 am

^^
Ah Harry, in theory, I agree with much you say; it isn't the country that's wrong, the world's a wonderful place and we're priveleged to live here in the U.K. But do you leave your back door open at night or when you go out? Do you leave your car unlocked or anything of value in sight in it? Do you walk down dark places in the early hours on your own? The police can't deal with crime fully because they are understaffed, the fire brigade get attacked trying to put fires out that kids start for fun, and idiots lob house bricks off bridges at cars. (Ever had that happen to you?, I have, off the bridge over Stoneclough Road). Do immigrants get told any of that?

I believe in (and pray every night for) world peace. I'm a Christian and wish no man ill. I'm also a realist and believe in Yin and Yang (I have to be, I've lived in Farnworth for 45 years and lived in housing estates here and in Westhoughton and I'm tough enough to take it all. I live in a decent district now, with a fair proporton of Asian and other folk, but this is Lancashire not Los Angeles,(although we don't have London's scale of problems ) . I worry for my kids and grandkids sakes though, and I'm not blind to all that's wrong, and much of it is in the running of a country where Parliament is at war with itself daily. There's nothing wrong with anyone wanting a better life, and it surely isn't just the U.K that's a magnet, but the real problems are with the fairytale false promise merchants who keep singing " Land of Hope and Glory" to wannabee immigrants and pretending we still live in an Empire of milk and honey. 219,000 immigrants landed here up to June this year. How many more do you think we can support? There are signs of a drop in past years, but that can be down to many things, the EU being one.

All I'm really saying, is we need an eyes wide open attitude and accept the reality rather than the dream. Don't ask me for a solution, I haven't got one. I'll just keep praying...
The wisest and the best of men, nay, the wisest and best of their actions, may be rendered ridiculous by a person whose first object in life is a joke...Darcy. Pride and Prejudice.

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Re: Sajid Javid's Taxi Service.

Post by Dujon » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:51 am

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:10 pm
I cant imagine what horrors some of those crossing have seen or the desperation to get into an inflatable and cross the busiest shipping lane in the world in December. Thankfully, of those that make it, the vast majority will enrich our country further and make a positive contribution to the UK.

Reference: https://www.sbs.com.au/news/refugees-on ... al-numbers

The SBS in the address stands for Special Broadcasting Service. It has been in existence for many years and caters for 'foreigners'. Like our national broadcaster, the ABC - to which it is affiliated - it tends to the far left of the political spectrum and could, I believe, be considered as one of the bastions of the 'Politically Correct' brigade. Both of those organisations are fully funded by the Australian taxpayer.

Together with other graphical presentations in the article is this:

Image

Perhaps the figures are different in the UK, but those indicate to me that the obtaining of employment by refugees overall is not some sort of asset to this country; in fact it is a significant burden.

These refugees are illegal immigrants. Most, if not all, arrived here thousands of kilometres from their homes. Most of them came by boats via, usually, Indonesia. All of them had to get to Indonesia before embarking for Australia. All of them had to have paid normal air fares and presented valid documentation at the Indonesian point of entry. After passing through border controls they had to pay the 'people smugglers' to carry them to Australia, quite a distance, in a leaky, creaky boat usually packed to the gunwales with its human cargo. Some of them didn't make it. Those who did arrived without any documentation whatever in their possession. That, surely, is an eyebrow-raising situation. To me, that indicates economic refugees and not those in desperate need of succour, as the latter wouldn't have made it past the first hurdle.

This country has been, over the years, built by immigrants. Each wave of new arrivals has been looked at with jaundiced eyes by the established residents, even those like me from the UK. As Harry has mentioned, most of those newcomers settled in and made significant contributions to the country; of course all of those arrived here legally, they didn't try to break visa restrictions or just arrive unannounced. They most certainly didn't arrive expecting a land of milk and honey and free everything. It seems that some of our recent arrivals do; it has been reported in the local press - of both left and right - that some 'refugees' had the hide to refuse acceptance by the Land of the Free, because they wouldn't receive social benefits when they landed. :conf:

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Re: Sajid Javid's Taxi Service.

Post by Hoboh » Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:24 am

Dujon wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:51 am
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:10 pm
I cant imagine what horrors some of those crossing have seen or the desperation to get into an inflatable and cross the busiest shipping lane in the world in December. Thankfully, of those that make it, the vast majority will enrich our country further and make a positive contribution to the UK.

Reference: https://www.sbs.com.au/news/refugees-on ... al-numbers

The SBS in the address stands for Special Broadcasting Service. It has been in existence for many years and caters for 'foreigners'. Like our national broadcaster, the ABC - to which it is affiliated - it tends to the far left of the political spectrum and could, I believe, be considered as one of the bastions of the 'Politically Correct' brigade. Both of those organisations are fully funded by the Australian taxpayer.

Together with other graphical presentations in the article is this:

Image

Perhaps the figures are different in the UK, but those indicate to me that the obtaining of employment by refugees overall is not some sort of asset to this country; in fact it is a significant burden.

These refugees are illegal immigrants. Most, if not all, arrived here thousands of kilometres from their homes. Most of them came by boats via, usually, Indonesia. All of them had to get to Indonesia before embarking for Australia. All of them had to have paid normal air fares and presented valid documentation at the Indonesian point of entry. After passing through border controls they had to pay the 'people smugglers' to carry them to Australia, quite a distance, in a leaky, creaky boat usually packed to the gunwales with its human cargo. Some of them didn't make it. Those who did arrived without any documentation whatever in their possession. That, surely, is an eyebrow-raising situation. To me, that indicates economic refugees and not those in desperate need of succour, as the latter wouldn't have made it past the first hurdle.

This country has been, over the years, built by immigrants. Each wave of new arrivals has been looked at with jaundiced eyes by the established residents, even those like me from the UK. As Harry has mentioned, most of those newcomers settled in and made significant contributions to the country; of course all of those arrived here legally, they didn't try to break visa restrictions or just arrive unannounced. They most certainly didn't arrive expecting a land of milk and honey and free everything. It seems that some of our recent arrivals do; it has been reported in the local press - of both left and right - that some 'refugees' had the hide to refuse acceptance by the Land of the Free, because they wouldn't receive social benefits when they landed. :conf:
There is quite simply no telling those of a certain mindset Dujon, the event of 'open arms' in Germany taught them nothing.

Many a country across Europe is considered a 'safe place' and none of these people who are fleeing can really expect to pick and choose where they want to reside, economic migration has to be stamped on, the UK would do well to let it be known there will be no 'free rides' for anyone. Even though I personally don't like the idea, having had a spat via email with Nick Clegg over being in a government that was thinking of introducing them, ID cards to stop folk dispersing into the black economy should be introduced. No card, arrest time.

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Re: Sajid Javid's Taxi Service.

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:37 pm

Dujon wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:51 am
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:10 pm
I cant imagine what horrors some of those crossing have seen or the desperation to get into an inflatable and cross the busiest shipping lane in the world in December. Thankfully, of those that make it, the vast majority will enrich our country further and make a positive contribution to the UK.

Reference: https://www.sbs.com.au/news/refugees-on ... al-numbers

The SBS in the address stands for Special Broadcasting Service. It has been in existence for many years and caters for 'foreigners'. Like our national broadcaster, the ABC - to which it is affiliated - it tends to the far left of the political spectrum and could, I believe, be considered as one of the bastions of the 'Politically Correct' brigade. Both of those organisations are fully funded by the Australian taxpayer.

Together with other graphical presentations in the article is this:

Image

Perhaps the figures are different in the UK, but those indicate to me that the obtaining of employment by refugees overall is not some sort of asset to this country; in fact it is a significant burden.

These refugees are illegal immigrants. Most, if not all, arrived here thousands of kilometres from their homes. Most of them came by boats via, usually, Indonesia. All of them had to get to Indonesia before embarking for Australia. All of them had to have paid normal air fares and presented valid documentation at the Indonesian point of entry. After passing through border controls they had to pay the 'people smugglers' to carry them to Australia, quite a distance, in a leaky, creaky boat usually packed to the gunwales with its human cargo. Some of them didn't make it. Those who did arrived without any documentation whatever in their possession. That, surely, is an eyebrow-raising situation. To me, that indicates economic refugees and not those in desperate need of succour, as the latter wouldn't have made it past the first hurdle.

This country has been, over the years, built by immigrants. Each wave of new arrivals has been looked at with jaundiced eyes by the established residents, even those like me from the UK. As Harry has mentioned, most of those newcomers settled in and made significant contributions to the country; of course all of those arrived here legally, they didn't try to break visa restrictions or just arrive unannounced. They most certainly didn't arrive expecting a land of milk and honey and free everything. It seems that some of our recent arrivals do; it has been reported in the local press - of both left and right - that some 'refugees' had the hide to refuse acceptance by the Land of the Free, because they wouldn't receive social benefits when they landed. :conf:
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Re: Sajid Javid's Taxi Service.

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:41 pm

Dujon wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:51 am
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:10 pm
I cant imagine what horrors some of those crossing have seen or the desperation to get into an inflatable and cross the busiest shipping lane in the world in December. Thankfully, of those that make it, the vast majority will enrich our country further and make a positive contribution to the UK.

Reference: https://www.sbs.com.au/news/refugees-on ... al-numbers

The SBS in the address stands for Special Broadcasting Service. It has been in existence for many years and caters for 'foreigners'. Like our national broadcaster, the ABC - to which it is affiliated - it tends to the far left of the political spectrum and could, I believe, be considered as one of the bastions of the 'Politically Correct' brigade. Both of those organisations are fully funded by the Australian taxpayer.

Together with other graphical presentations in the article is this:

Image

Perhaps the figures are different in the UK, but those indicate to me that the obtaining of employment by refugees overall is not some sort of asset to this country; in fact it is a significant burden.

These refugees are illegal immigrants. Most, if not all, arrived here thousands of kilometres from their homes. Most of them came by boats via, usually, Indonesia. All of them had to get to Indonesia before embarking for Australia. All of them had to have paid normal air fares and presented valid documentation at the Indonesian point of entry. After passing through border controls they had to pay the 'people smugglers' to carry them to Australia, quite a distance, in a leaky, creaky boat usually packed to the gunwales with its human cargo. Some of them didn't make it. Those who did arrived without any documentation whatever in their possession. That, surely, is an eyebrow-raising situation. To me, that indicates economic refugees and not those in desperate need of succour, as the latter wouldn't have made it past the first hurdle.

This country has been, over the years, built by immigrants. Each wave of new arrivals has been looked at with jaundiced eyes by the established residents, even those like me from the UK. As Harry has mentioned, most of those newcomers settled in and made significant contributions to the country; of course all of those arrived here legally, they didn't try to break visa restrictions or just arrive unannounced. They most certainly didn't arrive expecting a land of milk and honey and free everything. It seems that some of our recent arrivals do; it has been reported in the local press - of both left and right - that some 'refugees' had the hide to refuse acceptance by the Land of the Free, because they wouldn't receive social benefits when they landed. :conf:
Yup.

It also seems to me, that not only are they a burden on social benefits, health services, housing, policing, and education, the (illegally here) fxckfaces also bring their culture with them. Imagine the baggage from hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, Sudan, Somalia, Libyia, northern Nigeria, and all points Muslim. They don't renounce the culture that causes them to flee here, and once here try and establish the exact same culture they've fled from.
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Re: Sajid Javid's Taxi Service.

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:59 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:41 pm
Dujon wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:51 am
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:10 pm
I cant imagine what horrors some of those crossing have seen or the desperation to get into an inflatable and cross the busiest shipping lane in the world in December. Thankfully, of those that make it, the vast majority will enrich our country further and make a positive contribution to the UK.

Reference: https://www.sbs.com.au/news/refugees-on ... al-numbers

The SBS in the address stands for Special Broadcasting Service. It has been in existence for many years and caters for 'foreigners'. Like our national broadcaster, the ABC - to which it is affiliated - it tends to the far left of the political spectrum and could, I believe, be considered as one of the bastions of the 'Politically Correct' brigade. Both of those organisations are fully funded by the Australian taxpayer.

Together with other graphical presentations in the article is this:

Image

Perhaps the figures are different in the UK, but those indicate to me that the obtaining of employment by refugees overall is not some sort of asset to this country; in fact it is a significant burden.

These refugees are illegal immigrants. Most, if not all, arrived here thousands of kilometres from their homes. Most of them came by boats via, usually, Indonesia. All of them had to get to Indonesia before embarking for Australia. All of them had to have paid normal air fares and presented valid documentation at the Indonesian point of entry. After passing through border controls they had to pay the 'people smugglers' to carry them to Australia, quite a distance, in a leaky, creaky boat usually packed to the gunwales with its human cargo. Some of them didn't make it. Those who did arrived without any documentation whatever in their possession. That, surely, is an eyebrow-raising situation. To me, that indicates economic refugees and not those in desperate need of succour, as the latter wouldn't have made it past the first hurdle.

This country has been, over the years, built by immigrants. Each wave of new arrivals has been looked at with jaundiced eyes by the established residents, even those like me from the UK. As Harry has mentioned, most of those newcomers settled in and made significant contributions to the country; of course all of those arrived here legally, they didn't try to break visa restrictions or just arrive unannounced. They most certainly didn't arrive expecting a land of milk and honey and free everything. It seems that some of our recent arrivals do; it has been reported in the local press - of both left and right - that some 'refugees' had the hide to refuse acceptance by the Land of the Free, because they wouldn't receive social benefits when they landed. :conf:
Yup.

It also seems to me, that not only are they a burden on social benefits, health services, housing, policing, and education, the (illegally here) fxckfaces also bring their culture with them. Imagine the baggage from hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, Sudan, Somalia, Libyia, northern Nigeria, and all points Muslim. They don't renounce the culture that causes them to flee here, and once here try and establish the exact same culture they've fled from.
An interview from some Iranian tosspot stuck in Calais trying, illegally, to get here stated "I'd prefer die crossing the English Channel than stay in France..." What a fxcking cxnt. Try, rather, "I'd prefer to die trying to establish proper democracy in the country I fled from..." Tosspots.

You want to die? Then fxcking die somewhere else doing something fxcking useful, wanker.
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Re: Sajid Javid's Taxi Service.

Post by Harry Genshaw » Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:29 pm

Those figures of Dujons I find both surprising and depressing. I know nowt about the Aussie employment system and whether it's harder for immigrants (& specifically immigrants of colour) to find work over there compared to the UK.

Once your in the benefits system it can be very hard to get out, more so if you're up against language and cultural barriers or inbuilt racism. I'd like to think conparable figures in the UK would show more success amongst the immigrants at getting in to work.

Certainly my own experience is that the over whelming majority I have worked with over the years want to work and settle as quickly as possible. Just as we would if the situation was reversed
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Re: Sajid Javid's Taxi Service.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:22 am

TANGODANCER wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:08 am
^^
Ah Harry, in theory, I agree with much you say; it isn't the country that's wrong, the world's a wonderful place and we're priveleged to live here in the U.K. But do you leave your back door open at night or when you go out? Do you leave your car unlocked or anything of value in sight in it? Do you walk down dark places in the early hours on your own? The police can't deal with crime fully because they are understaffed, the fire brigade get attacked trying to put fires out that kids start for fun, and idiots lob house bricks off bridges at cars. (Ever had that happen to you?, I have, off the bridge over Stoneclough Road). Do immigrants get told any of that?

I believe in (and pray every night for) world peace. I'm a Christian and wish no man ill. I'm also a realist and believe in Yin and Yang (I have to be, I've lived in Farnworth for 45 years and lived in housing estates here and in Westhoughton and I'm tough enough to take it all. I live in a decent district now, with a fair proporton of Asian and other folk, but this is Lancashire not Los Angeles,(although we don't have London's scale of problems ) . I worry for my kids and grandkids sakes though, and I'm not blind to all that's wrong, and much of it is in the running of a country where Parliament is at war with itself daily. There's nothing wrong with anyone wanting a better life, and it surely isn't just the U.K that's a magnet, but the real problems are with the fairytale false promise merchants who keep singing " Land of Hope and Glory" to wannabee immigrants and pretending we still live in an Empire of milk and honey. 219,000 immigrants landed here up to June this year. How many more do you think we can support? There are signs of a drop in past years, but that can be down to many things, the EU being one.

All I'm really saying, is we need an eyes wide open attitude and accept the reality rather than the dream. Don't ask me for a solution, I haven't got one. I'll just keep praying...
The problem is that what you describe as a problem "rise in crime, breakdown of local communities etc"...(hopefully I've paraphrased correctly)...is not something that has happened overnight or as a result broadly, of immigration. It has been a gradual change in the way our society functions. For lots of reasons.

However, the idea that there was a mythical point in time where everyone left their doors wide open, there was no crime and everything was groovy is a nonsense. We've advanced in many ways (how many kids get TB etc now for example) and as a result some things have got worse. The main point is that we've become better as a society and therefore more want in, and we can also keep more people alive longer. This means we have more people. I do not think that is a primary problem or cause of what you describe. Think about the generation of manual workers left stranded by the shift away from manufacturing in the late 70's and 80's. How many "sink estates" that we have are a result of that. Nothing, whatsoever to do with immigration. But even if you disagree you have to concede that like it or not, we are heavily dependent upon immigrants and that there will never be a turning off of the tap that does not hugely hurt our NHS and wider public services alongside vast swathes of the private sector.

The reality is that you can if you want, find the bad in everything. The balance is that most of our problems stem from our own choices as a nation. And for that, we only have to blame ourselves.

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Re: Sajid Javid's Taxi Service.

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:11 pm

^^
I wrote out quite a lengthy reply to the above....then scrubbed it and decided not to bother. I wish you health, wealth and happiness in the 2019.
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Re: Sajid Javid's Taxi Service.

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:43 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:22 am
TANGODANCER wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:08 am
^^
Ah Harry, in theory, I agree with much you say; it isn't the country that's wrong, the world's a wonderful place and we're priveleged to live here in the U.K. But do you leave your back door open at night or when you go out? Do you leave your car unlocked or anything of value in sight in it? Do you walk down dark places in the early hours on your own? The police can't deal with crime fully because they are understaffed, the fire brigade get attacked trying to put fires out that kids start for fun, and idiots lob house bricks off bridges at cars. (Ever had that happen to you?, I have, off the bridge over Stoneclough Road). Do immigrants get told any of that?

I believe in (and pray every night for) world peace. I'm a Christian and wish no man ill. I'm also a realist and believe in Yin and Yang (I have to be, I've lived in Farnworth for 45 years and lived in housing estates here and in Westhoughton and I'm tough enough to take it all. I live in a decent district now, with a fair proporton of Asian and other folk, but this is Lancashire not Los Angeles,(although we don't have London's scale of problems ) . I worry for my kids and grandkids sakes though, and I'm not blind to all that's wrong, and much of it is in the running of a country where Parliament is at war with itself daily. There's nothing wrong with anyone wanting a better life, and it surely isn't just the U.K that's a magnet, but the real problems are with the fairytale false promise merchants who keep singing " Land of Hope and Glory" to wannabee immigrants and pretending we still live in an Empire of milk and honey. 219,000 immigrants landed here up to June this year. How many more do you think we can support? There are signs of a drop in past years, but that can be down to many things, the EU being one.

All I'm really saying, is we need an eyes wide open attitude and accept the reality rather than the dream. Don't ask me for a solution, I haven't got one. I'll just keep praying...
The problem is that what you describe as a problem "rise in crime, breakdown of local communities etc"...(hopefully I've paraphrased correctly)...is not something that has happened overnight or as a result broadly, of immigration. It has been a gradual change in the way our society functions. For lots of reasons.

However, the idea that there was a mythical point in time where everyone left their doors wide open, there was no crime and everything was groovy is a nonsense. We've advanced in many ways (how many kids get TB etc now for example) and as a result some things have got worse. The main point is that we've become better as a society and therefore more want in, and we can also keep more people alive longer. This means we have more people. I do not think that is a primary problem or cause of what you describe. Think about the generation of manual workers left stranded by the shift away from manufacturing in the late 70's and 80's. How many "sink estates" that we have are a result of that. Nothing, whatsoever to do with immigration. But even if you disagree you have to concede that like it or not, we are heavily dependent upon immigrants and that there will never be a turning off of the tap that does not hugely hurt our NHS and wider public services alongside vast swathes of the private sector.

The reality is that you can if you want, find the bad in everything. The balance is that most of our problems stem from our own choices as a nation. And for that, we only have to blame ourselves.
There are, at least, three things wrong with your analysis of Tango's points.
You assume like most economists, capitalists and businessmen that growth is essential for an economy to survive. I say bollox to that, sustainability should be key, and growth as s target should be banned outright.
Which puts into sharp perspective the need for immigrants. With no growth in the economy we don't have to be continually on the gerbil wheel of employing more people to taxi people to more jobs requiring more health professionals to look after more people with more teachers required to educate more children and more builders to build houses to house all the fxcking extra taxi drivers, hospital cleaners, nurses, doctors and brickies we need to import to sustain those we imported decades ago. Just cease with the 'growth'.
Thirdly it's a trope that the past was shitter than now and there wasn't a golden age. Sorry, there was. The late 50s and early 60s in this country are about as golden as you could get.
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Re: Sajid Javid's Taxi Service.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:11 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:43 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:22 am
TANGODANCER wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:08 am
^^
Ah Harry, in theory, I agree with much you say; it isn't the country that's wrong, the world's a wonderful place and we're priveleged to live here in the U.K. But do you leave your back door open at night or when you go out? Do you leave your car unlocked or anything of value in sight in it? Do you walk down dark places in the early hours on your own? The police can't deal with crime fully because they are understaffed, the fire brigade get attacked trying to put fires out that kids start for fun, and idiots lob house bricks off bridges at cars. (Ever had that happen to you?, I have, off the bridge over Stoneclough Road). Do immigrants get told any of that?

I believe in (and pray every night for) world peace. I'm a Christian and wish no man ill. I'm also a realist and believe in Yin and Yang (I have to be, I've lived in Farnworth for 45 years and lived in housing estates here and in Westhoughton and I'm tough enough to take it all. I live in a decent district now, with a fair proporton of Asian and other folk, but this is Lancashire not Los Angeles,(although we don't have London's scale of problems ) . I worry for my kids and grandkids sakes though, and I'm not blind to all that's wrong, and much of it is in the running of a country where Parliament is at war with itself daily. There's nothing wrong with anyone wanting a better life, and it surely isn't just the U.K that's a magnet, but the real problems are with the fairytale false promise merchants who keep singing " Land of Hope and Glory" to wannabee immigrants and pretending we still live in an Empire of milk and honey. 219,000 immigrants landed here up to June this year. How many more do you think we can support? There are signs of a drop in past years, but that can be down to many things, the EU being one.

All I'm really saying, is we need an eyes wide open attitude and accept the reality rather than the dream. Don't ask me for a solution, I haven't got one. I'll just keep praying...
The problem is that what you describe as a problem "rise in crime, breakdown of local communities etc"...(hopefully I've paraphrased correctly)...is not something that has happened overnight or as a result broadly, of immigration. It has been a gradual change in the way our society functions. For lots of reasons.

However, the idea that there was a mythical point in time where everyone left their doors wide open, there was no crime and everything was groovy is a nonsense. We've advanced in many ways (how many kids get TB etc now for example) and as a result some things have got worse. The main point is that we've become better as a society and therefore more want in, and we can also keep more people alive longer. This means we have more people. I do not think that is a primary problem or cause of what you describe. Think about the generation of manual workers left stranded by the shift away from manufacturing in the late 70's and 80's. How many "sink estates" that we have are a result of that. Nothing, whatsoever to do with immigration. But even if you disagree you have to concede that like it or not, we are heavily dependent upon immigrants and that there will never be a turning off of the tap that does not hugely hurt our NHS and wider public services alongside vast swathes of the private sector.

The reality is that you can if you want, find the bad in everything. The balance is that most of our problems stem from our own choices as a nation. And for that, we only have to blame ourselves.
There are, at least, three things wrong with your analysis of Tango's points.
You assume like most economists, capitalists and businessmen that growth is essential for an economy to survive. I say bollox to that, sustainability should be key, and growth as s target should be banned outright.
Which puts into sharp perspective the need for immigrants. With no growth in the economy we don't have to be continually on the gerbil wheel of employing more people to taxi people to more jobs requiring more health professionals to look after more people with more teachers required to educate more children and more builders to build houses to house all the fxcking extra taxi drivers, hospital cleaners, nurses, doctors and brickies we need to import to sustain those we imported decades ago. Just cease with the 'growth'.
Thirdly it's a trope that the past was shitter than now and there wasn't a golden age. Sorry, there was. The late 50s and early 60s in this country are about as golden as you could get.
We live, not in a capitalist country now, but a capitalist world. Like it or not. What you describe as an economic model is essentially a type of communism. Sustainability over growth. Even if such an idea were practically possible - (it isn't) the reality is that the people of this country would never be satisfied with it. The businesses that pull out, and jobs lost and end of consumer behaviour (whether in the long run advantageous or not) would simply not be tolerated.

As for the "golden age" theory - for every good thing you can mention there are equally a number of bad things too.

It is true that post-war baby boomers enjoyed (relative to their predecessors) the most priviliged and improved lives any generation had ever seen before or since. They enjoyed the advent of the NHS, free education right up to University, the era of free love, drugs and rock and roll. Increase in house ownership but also huge increases in state housing provision. They enjoyed the new welfare state that propped them up.

That generation were very privileged compared to their parents and grandparents and great-grandparents. Yet now they are seemingly hell-bent on taking those very things they enjoyed away from future generations.

However, it does not equate a golden age. For example, in 1961 the life expectancy for a man was 68. Now it is 79.

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Re: Sajid Javid's Taxi Service.

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:38 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:11 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:43 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:22 am
TANGODANCER wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:08 am
^^
Ah Harry, in theory, I agree with much you say; it isn't the country that's wrong, the world's a wonderful place and we're priveleged to live here in the U.K. But do you leave your back door open at night or when you go out? Do you leave your car unlocked or anything of value in sight in it? Do you walk down dark places in the early hours on your own? The police can't deal with crime fully because they are understaffed, the fire brigade get attacked trying to put fires out that kids start for fun, and idiots lob house bricks off bridges at cars. (Ever had that happen to you?, I have, off the bridge over Stoneclough Road). Do immigrants get told any of that?

I believe in (and pray every night for) world peace. I'm a Christian and wish no man ill. I'm also a realist and believe in Yin and Yang (I have to be, I've lived in Farnworth for 45 years and lived in housing estates here and in Westhoughton and I'm tough enough to take it all. I live in a decent district now, with a fair proporton of Asian and other folk, but this is Lancashire not Los Angeles,(although we don't have London's scale of problems ) . I worry for my kids and grandkids sakes though, and I'm not blind to all that's wrong, and much of it is in the running of a country where Parliament is at war with itself daily. There's nothing wrong with anyone wanting a better life, and it surely isn't just the U.K that's a magnet, but the real problems are with the fairytale false promise merchants who keep singing " Land of Hope and Glory" to wannabee immigrants and pretending we still live in an Empire of milk and honey. 219,000 immigrants landed here up to June this year. How many more do you think we can support? There are signs of a drop in past years, but that can be down to many things, the EU being one.

All I'm really saying, is we need an eyes wide open attitude and accept the reality rather than the dream. Don't ask me for a solution, I haven't got one. I'll just keep praying...
The problem is that what you describe as a problem "rise in crime, breakdown of local communities etc"...(hopefully I've paraphrased correctly)...is not something that has happened overnight or as a result broadly, of immigration. It has been a gradual change in the way our society functions. For lots of reasons.

However, the idea that there was a mythical point in time where everyone left their doors wide open, there was no crime and everything was groovy is a nonsense. We've advanced in many ways (how many kids get TB etc now for example) and as a result some things have got worse. The main point is that we've become better as a society and therefore more want in, and we can also keep more people alive longer. This means we have more people. I do not think that is a primary problem or cause of what you describe. Think about the generation of manual workers left stranded by the shift away from manufacturing in the late 70's and 80's. How many "sink estates" that we have are a result of that. Nothing, whatsoever to do with immigration. But even if you disagree you have to concede that like it or not, we are heavily dependent upon immigrants and that there will never be a turning off of the tap that does not hugely hurt our NHS and wider public services alongside vast swathes of the private sector.

The reality is that you can if you want, find the bad in everything. The balance is that most of our problems stem from our own choices as a nation. And for that, we only have to blame ourselves.
There are, at least, three things wrong with your analysis of Tango's points.
You assume like most economists, capitalists and businessmen that growth is essential for an economy to survive. I say bollox to that, sustainability should be key, and growth as s target should be banned outright.
Which puts into sharp perspective the need for immigrants. With no growth in the economy we don't have to be continually on the gerbil wheel of employing more people to taxi people to more jobs requiring more health professionals to look after more people with more teachers required to educate more children and more builders to build houses to house all the fxcking extra taxi drivers, hospital cleaners, nurses, doctors and brickies we need to import to sustain those we imported decades ago. Just cease with the 'growth'.
Thirdly it's a trope that the past was shitter than now and there wasn't a golden age. Sorry, there was. The late 50s and early 60s in this country are about as golden as you could get.
We live, not in a capitalist country now, but a capitalist world. Like it or not. What you describe as an economic model is essentially a type of communism. Sustainability over growth. Even if such an idea were practically possible - (it isn't) the reality is that the people of this country would never be satisfied with it. The businesses that pull out, and jobs lost and end of consumer behaviour (whether in the long run advantageous or not) would simply not be tolerated.

As for the "golden age" theory - for every good thing you can mention there are equally a number of bad things too.

It is true that post-war baby boomers enjoyed (relative to their predecessors) the most priviliged and improved lives any generation had ever seen before or since. They enjoyed the advent of the NHS, free education right up to University, the era of free love, drugs and rock and roll. Increase in house ownership but also huge increases in state housing provision. They enjoyed the new welfare state that propped them up.

That generation were very privileged compared to their parents and grandparents and great-grandparents. Yet now they are seemingly hell-bent on taking those very things they enjoyed away from future generations.

However, it does not equate a golden age. For example, in 1961 the life expectancy for a man was 68. Now it is 79.
68 v 79 is no argument against a golden age. That's just actuarial stuff. All eight of my great grandparents died in the era and everyone of them was 90+. Those who died early the 50/60s dragged down the averages, but a healthy life expectancy was about the same length as you could expect now.
Plus, it's not some kind of utopian dream to have zero growth. It's a fxcking necessity. The planet cannot go on 'growing'. Someone, somewhere, in some country needs to start this. Why Not here?

As somebody said on TV last night: the international spread of capitalism has expanded as far as it can probably get, now the masses are being exploited by the international manipulation of labour... Too fxcking true.
Last edited by Lost Leopard Spot on Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sajid Javid's Taxi Service.

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:53 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:43 pm

Thirdly it's a trope that the past was shitter than now and there wasn't a golden age. Sorry, there was. The late 50s and early 60s in this country are about as golden as you could get.
Stepping aside, Spots, from the fruitless task of trying to get Insaney to agree that Wilmslow stockbroker belt, Upper Chorley New Road and Heaton don't equate with Johnson Fold, New Bury, Crescent Road or Farnworth Flower Estate and that footballers wouldn't be just as happy in either and that the formers aren't just as full of East European unemployed as Deane Road etc, your "golden era" is very relevant for many reasons:

I lived through an amazingly happy (if decidedly poor) childhood and teen era from 1939 onwards. Folk met and lived in all sorts of communal climes where churches, local pubs, cinemas and dance halls ruled, and there wasn't an internet cafe in sight. ( How many of your neighbours do you actually know well?) Granted, our own life choices (and glaring errors) marriages, jobs etc (we didn't really use the word "career" back then) were all self chosen, and politicians weren't much better than today's lot in many respects, but happy, and a golden era...yes. Without a doubt. I only wish my own kids could live as simple and uncomplicated lives as we did.

My first two-up, two-down terraced house was bought with a 100% mortgage from Bolton Council. That let two of us working eventually save up for the deposit on a better/bigger house with a bathroom. We when't on from there. Can kids do that today? Some of the people around me own their own houses; a lot of them bought by Asian people with money and extended beyond belief. (I always yearned for a garden which I have; many other houses near me now have concete driveway lawns with three cars parked on them. Many others (my two Polish neighbour couples amongst them) are landlord owned tennants (quite a few council) who have to work all hours to get on. I'm lucky in may respects, others not always so.

Tales of woe since the "golden era",and the self-inflicted cock-ups, blunders, mistakes and wrong life choices made by me,I could tell you a million, but that's another story entirely.... :lol:
The wisest and the best of men, nay, the wisest and best of their actions, may be rendered ridiculous by a person whose first object in life is a joke...Darcy. Pride and Prejudice.

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Re: Sajid Javid's Taxi Service.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:58 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:38 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:11 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:43 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:22 am
TANGODANCER wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:08 am
^^
Ah Harry, in theory, I agree with much you say; it isn't the country that's wrong, the world's a wonderful place and we're priveleged to live here in the U.K. But do you leave your back door open at night or when you go out? Do you leave your car unlocked or anything of value in sight in it? Do you walk down dark places in the early hours on your own? The police can't deal with crime fully because they are understaffed, the fire brigade get attacked trying to put fires out that kids start for fun, and idiots lob house bricks off bridges at cars. (Ever had that happen to you?, I have, off the bridge over Stoneclough Road). Do immigrants get told any of that?

I believe in (and pray every night for) world peace. I'm a Christian and wish no man ill. I'm also a realist and believe in Yin and Yang (I have to be, I've lived in Farnworth for 45 years and lived in housing estates here and in Westhoughton and I'm tough enough to take it all. I live in a decent district now, with a fair proporton of Asian and other folk, but this is Lancashire not Los Angeles,(although we don't have London's scale of problems ) . I worry for my kids and grandkids sakes though, and I'm not blind to all that's wrong, and much of it is in the running of a country where Parliament is at war with itself daily. There's nothing wrong with anyone wanting a better life, and it surely isn't just the U.K that's a magnet, but the real problems are with the fairytale false promise merchants who keep singing " Land of Hope and Glory" to wannabee immigrants and pretending we still live in an Empire of milk and honey. 219,000 immigrants landed here up to June this year. How many more do you think we can support? There are signs of a drop in past years, but that can be down to many things, the EU being one.

All I'm really saying, is we need an eyes wide open attitude and accept the reality rather than the dream. Don't ask me for a solution, I haven't got one. I'll just keep praying...
The problem is that what you describe as a problem "rise in crime, breakdown of local communities etc"...(hopefully I've paraphrased correctly)...is not something that has happened overnight or as a result broadly, of immigration. It has been a gradual change in the way our society functions. For lots of reasons.

However, the idea that there was a mythical point in time where everyone left their doors wide open, there was no crime and everything was groovy is a nonsense. We've advanced in many ways (how many kids get TB etc now for example) and as a result some things have got worse. The main point is that we've become better as a society and therefore more want in, and we can also keep more people alive longer. This means we have more people. I do not think that is a primary problem or cause of what you describe. Think about the generation of manual workers left stranded by the shift away from manufacturing in the late 70's and 80's. How many "sink estates" that we have are a result of that. Nothing, whatsoever to do with immigration. But even if you disagree you have to concede that like it or not, we are heavily dependent upon immigrants and that there will never be a turning off of the tap that does not hugely hurt our NHS and wider public services alongside vast swathes of the private sector.

The reality is that you can if you want, find the bad in everything. The balance is that most of our problems stem from our own choices as a nation. And for that, we only have to blame ourselves.
There are, at least, three things wrong with your analysis of Tango's points.
You assume like most economists, capitalists and businessmen that growth is essential for an economy to survive. I say bollox to that, sustainability should be key, and growth as s target should be banned outright.
Which puts into sharp perspective the need for immigrants. With no growth in the economy we don't have to be continually on the gerbil wheel of employing more people to taxi people to more jobs requiring more health professionals to look after more people with more teachers required to educate more children and more builders to build houses to house all the fxcking extra taxi drivers, hospital cleaners, nurses, doctors and brickies we need to import to sustain those we imported decades ago. Just cease with the 'growth'.
Thirdly it's a trope that the past was shitter than now and there wasn't a golden age. Sorry, there was. The late 50s and early 60s in this country are about as golden as you could get.
We live, not in a capitalist country now, but a capitalist world. Like it or not. What you describe as an economic model is essentially a type of communism. Sustainability over growth. Even if such an idea were practically possible - (it isn't) the reality is that the people of this country would never be satisfied with it. The businesses that pull out, and jobs lost and end of consumer behaviour (whether in the long run advantageous or not) would simply not be tolerated.

As for the "golden age" theory - for every good thing you can mention there are equally a number of bad things too.

It is true that post-war baby boomers enjoyed (relative to their predecessors) the most priviliged and improved lives any generation had ever seen before or since. They enjoyed the advent of the NHS, free education right up to University, the era of free love, drugs and rock and roll. Increase in house ownership but also huge increases in state housing provision. They enjoyed the new welfare state that propped them up.

That generation were very privileged compared to their parents and grandparents and great-grandparents. Yet now they are seemingly hell-bent on taking those very things they enjoyed away from future generations.

However, it does not equate a golden age. For example, in 1961 the life expectancy for a man was 68. Now it is 79.
68 v 79 is no argument against a golden age. That's just actuarial stuff. All eight of my great grandparents died in the era and everyone of them was 90+. Those who died early the 50/60s dragged down the averages, but a healthy life expectancy was about the same length as you could expect now.
Plus, it's not some kind of utopian dream to have zero growth. It's a fxcking necessity. The planet cannot go on 'growing'. Someone, somewhere, in some country needs to start this. Why Not here?

As somebody said on TV last night: the international spread of capitalism has expanded as far as it can probably get, now the masses are being exploited by the international manipulation of labour... Too fxcking true.
Your age thing....that is ridiculous. Life expectancy is of course averaged out. The fact more people died early is not a good thing.

As for your second point - on a macro huge scale you are right. The problem is the UK cannot unilaterally say "we're pulling out of capitalism and becoming a self-sustaining commune" without agreement from its people. And its people will not agree to that. Even then its entirely impractical in the forseeable future. I rather think that before that happens we'll be colonising some other planet somewhere else to support our "growth".

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Re: Sajid Javid's Taxi Service.

Post by Hoboh » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:43 am

The misguided idea that 'growth' is the answer to all ailments is twaddle, it is an illusion in much the same way the value of company stocks and shares are. It is a bubble that very often bursts the second growth slows or stops most companies have not got a pot to p*ss in, seen it many times and what happens then? Cut, cut, cut and the downward spiral along with the inevitable company failure arrives.
The only market is the new product/new idea that everyone wants at first and there are only so many of these, once a market peaks the only way is down. Currently I work part time for a huge multi-national that makes the NHS look like a corner shop and they are heading downwards even though their competitors are nearly at peak level, the markets are not infinite.
Steady growth, a skilled workforce, cash in the bank instead of fuelling the shares, and innovation are the way forward, not cheap labour with questionable qualifications.

IT and robots well, when that arrives big time the French Yellow jackets will look like naughty children, mind by then they will be facing company owned Robocops not PC Plod.

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