European Second Referendum

If you have a life outside of BWFC, then this is the place to tell us all about your toilet habits, and those bizarre fetishes.......

Moderator: Zulus Thousand of em

Post Reply

In or Out

IN (including all the rules and all the costs including increased costs).
7
44%
OUT (including a proper No Deal Brexit with no payment to the EU at all, and no more rule taking).
7
44%
MAY-be: or are you one of her followers?
2
13%
 
Total votes: 16

Prufrock
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 19812
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:51 pm

Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Prufrock » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:09 am

She should've invited Chuka.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25479
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: European Second Referendum

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:41 am

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:09 am
She should've invited Chuka.
Is there a Brexiteer grown up? Cos Chukka and Yvette Cooper and Ken Clarke would be a better bet to sort this out, but obviously you need some Brexiteer MPs in there too. Can't think of many who are grown up enough though to recommend....

Prufrock
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 19812
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:51 pm

Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Prufrock » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:48 am

Jeremy only meets one of the two conditions. And Mr We Have to Talk to Both Sides won't share a room with Chukka.

Probably Gove is your best bet (I know!). Wouldnt trust the slippery feck, but probably as "sensible" as it gets.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

Enoch
Icon
Icon
Posts: 4006
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:08 pm
Location: The Garden of England.

Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Enoch » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:00 pm

Gove is directly responsible for the fiasco of the last two years.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25479
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: European Second Referendum

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:10 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:48 am
Jeremy only meets one of the two conditions. And Mr We Have to Talk to Both Sides won't share a room with Chukka.

Probably Gove is your best bet (I know!). Wouldnt trust the slippery feck, but probably as "sensible" as it gets.
Corbyn and May - would be excluded. Permanently here in my plan.

As for Gove, the same Gove who was a co-convener of Vote Leave but didn't know about their illegality? The same Gove who was an ardent Brexiteer - no deal type "I think we're all fed up of experts" - until he got his DEFRA cabinet post and actually learned what Brexit would mean for agriculture (from experts!!!!) and started to shit his pants and has become the softest of Brexiteers, probably in secret a remainer now? That bloke. I can't think of someone less suitable to be in any single position of power than him. A repugnant and disgusting individual who would literally sell his own children for a sniff of power.

I'm struggling to think of a Brexit MP who I'd consider capable of dealing with this. Rees Mogg is capable but has sinister ulterior motives and would burn the entire working class to fuel his incinerators if given the chance.

Prufrock
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 19812
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:51 pm

Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Prufrock » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:22 pm

Well it is a bit tallest dwarf!

And Rees-Mogg? Capable? Ha.

You love a good conspiracy theory. They're not Machiavellian geniuses out to screw the working man.

I'm reminded of Janan Ganesh's tweet about Corbyn:

"You can do analysis of Corbyn and his "movement" but the essence of the whole thing is that they are just thick as pigshit".

Applies to the ERG as well. Vast majority of career backbenchers are thick. Brains never got past ideological purity. You can dress it up with Latin quotes and Nannies, or beards and allotments but it doesn't get you any further.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25479
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: European Second Referendum

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:27 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:22 pm
Well it is a bit tallest dwarf!

And Rees-Mogg? Capable? Ha.

You love a good conspiracy theory. They're not Machiavellian geniuses out to screw the working man.

I'm reminded of Janan Ganesh's tweet about Corbyn:

"You can do analysis of Corbyn and his "movement" but the essence of the whole thing is that they are just thick as pigshit".

Applies to the ERG as well. Vast majority of career backbenchers are thick. Brains never got past ideological purity. You can dress it up with Latin quotes and Nannies, or beards and allotments but it doesn't get you any further.
Rees Mogg is not stupid - but he's definitely trying to push for a zero tarriff, low regulation economy as it benefits him and his mates. I cannot stand him - I think he's an absolute charlatan.

But you've got him vs the real thickos like Francois....

As for Corbyn quote - I entirely agree - Corbyn is a thicko.

Prufrock
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 19812
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:51 pm

Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Prufrock » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:59 pm

I disagree. Rees-Mogg is thick as two short planks (and less malevolent, because of it). His father was very bright, he's well connected and no doubt well advised and has that public school teaching to present an affable front and deflect from difficult questioning with a quote from Livy, but he isn't bright.

You only need to see him interviewed by somebody forensic (or indeed not, his interview on I think Loose Women about abortion is a veritable clown-car car-crash) to see he can't think on his feet.

It's the old upper class confidence trick. But he's miles from an evil genius. He's educated, not bright.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

User avatar
Lost Leopard Spot
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 18439
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 11:14 am
Location: In the long grass, hunting for a watering hole.

Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:58 pm

Fxcking hell...
Bill Cash.
Bernard Jenkin.
Richard Bacon.
Steve Baker.

There are plenty of unsullied pure brexiteers with brains in their heads, and who lack the sheer enthusiasm for office that Corbyn, May, Gove, Soubry et al demonstrate.
That's not a leopard!
頑張ってください

User avatar
Lost Leopard Spot
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 18439
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 11:14 am
Location: In the long grass, hunting for a watering hole.

Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:03 pm

God help us all if ever Cherry gets into power anywhere.
That's not a leopard!
頑張ってください

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25479
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: European Second Referendum

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:15 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:58 pm
Fxcking hell...
Bill Cash.
Bernard Jenkin.
Richard Bacon.
Steve Baker.

There are plenty of unsullied pure brexiteers with brains in their heads, and who lack the sheer enthusiasm for office that Corbyn, May, Gove, Soubry et al demonstrate.
I might give you Bacon (and egg). The other three? You're having a laugh. Good god.

The perfect hatchet piece on Baker here. Makes me cringe reading it.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... up-no-deal

User avatar
Lost Leopard Spot
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 18439
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 11:14 am
Location: In the long grass, hunting for a watering hole.

Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:17 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:15 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:58 pm
Fxcking hell...
Bill Cash.
Bernard Jenkin.
Richard Bacon.
Steve Baker.

There are plenty of unsullied pure brexiteers with brains in their heads, and who lack the sheer enthusiasm for office that Corbyn, May, Gove, Soubry et al demonstrate.
I might give you Bacon (and egg). The other three? You're having a laugh. Good god.

The perfect hatchet piece on Baker here. Makes me cringe reading it.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... up-no-deal
That piece of 'journalism' was so biased that I piss on you for even submitting it...
And your hero is...? :conf:
By the way, the other day you asked me what it was we specifically had lined up. You just ignored the answer. You'd make a good MP.
That's not a leopard!
頑張ってください

User avatar
Lost Leopard Spot
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 18439
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 11:14 am
Location: In the long grass, hunting for a watering hole.

Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:22 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:44 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:05 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:31 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:26 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:57 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:45 am
Hoboh wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:37 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:08 am
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:27 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:20 pm
This use of the phrase "Cliff Edge".
It's biased.
I agree. It's the same with 'crashing out without a deal'.
Yet the main leave campaign went to pains to say pre referendum that voting to leave wouldn't mean "crashing out" that it would mean a carefully negotiated deal - before we even triggered the leaving mechanic.

The reason it is referred to as "crashing out" is because the number of businesses and industries who trade with or through the EU are too large to properly impact assess. So you're basically going to have thousands of unintended consequences of leaving without a deal. And nobody knows what that will mean. Given a no deal has a contingency planning around troops being deployed on the streets - is that something we really want?
Project fear peddling
But we're talking the government's own projections. To keep saying "project fear" smacks of conspiracy theory.

The only economist the ERG lot refer to in support of no deal, Patrick Minford who is practically the only economist who argues in favour of a no deal, also talks about how a no deal will devastate our farming and manufacturing industries - but reckons "that's a good thing".

Now - conveniently they leave out the bit where he mentions major industries being devastated and the fact he thinks that's a good thing. What is interesting is that his argument for leaving and running down our industry and agriculture is one of classical Thatcher neoliberalism. "Lets focus entirely on finance and services sector and anything else that cannot survive its best to kill off quickly".
I was referring to the crashing out conversation, no one actually knows what will happen except if we take one up the rear from the remainiacs.
If we take the line "nobody knows what will happen" - what we have is a lot of information that does point to the economic impact of a no deal Brexit.

Its like someone saying "lets drive our car of a 50ft cliff". And 9 blokes going "don't be crazy you'll die or at least be very badly hurt" and 1 going "well I've seen people survive such a fall though sometimes they don't" - and you saying "well we don't know for sure so lets do it".

You don't make decisions in life based on "well we can't be sure so lets do it". You weigh up the volume, weight and likely accuracy of the available information then make a decision.
It's not a cliff edge. We have protocols in place. We even have deals in place.
Plus those on the other side see a cliff edge too. We have bridges that can cross both cliff edges. WTO terms are perfectly normal and not a worry.
As I said "Cliff edge" is biased journalism.
What do we have in place? Precisely?
Trade deals of 43bn out of the 117bn we currently exercise through the EU.
Strangely enough not a single EU country in the list. But we have signed off rolling trade deals with:
Switzerland
Turkey
South Korea
Norway
South Africa
Mexico
Egypt
Israel
Palestine
FYR of Macedonia
Morocco
Chile
Colombia
Ghana
Ukraine
Iceland
Algeria
Lebanon
Jordan
Peru
Panama
Tunisia
Ivory Coast
Serbia
Ecuador
Georgia
Dominican Republic
Trinidad
Jamaica
Costa Rica
Mauritius
Namibia
Moldova
Botswana
Madagascar
Guatemala
Papua New Guinea
Faeroe Islands
Cameroon
Belize
El Salvador
Guyana
Bahamas
Mozambique
Barbados
Seychelles
Suriname
Montenegro
Andorra
Antigua & Barbuda
Fiji
Albania
Dominica
Syria
St Kitts & Nevis
Bosnia & Herzegovina
Honduras
Nicaragua
Grenada
eSwatani
Kosovo
and... Lesotho....

............
I remind you here ^^^
That's not a leopard!
頑張ってください

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25479
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: European Second Referendum

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:38 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:22 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:44 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:05 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:31 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:26 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:57 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:45 am
Hoboh wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:37 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:08 am
Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:27 pm
[quote="Lost Leopard Spot" post_id=1071262 time=1554038429 user_id=4530]
This use of the phrase "Cliff Edge".
It's biased.
I agree. It's the same with 'crashing out without a deal'.
Yet the main leave campaign went to pains to say pre referendum that voting to leave wouldn't mean "crashing out" that it would mean a carefully negotiated deal - before we even triggered the leaving mechanic.

The reason it is referred to as "crashing out" is because the number of businesses and industries who trade with or through the EU are too large to properly impact assess. So you're basically going to have thousands of unintended consequences of leaving without a deal. And nobody knows what that will mean. Given a no deal has a contingency planning around troops being deployed on the streets - is that something we really want?
Project fear peddling
But we're talking the government's own projections. To keep saying "project fear" smacks of conspiracy theory.

The only economist the ERG lot refer to in support of no deal, Patrick Minford who is practically the only economist who argues in favour of a no deal, also talks about how a no deal will devastate our farming and manufacturing industries - but reckons "that's a good thing".

Now - conveniently they leave out the bit where he mentions major industries being devastated and the fact he thinks that's a good thing. What is interesting is that his argument for leaving and running down our industry and agriculture is one of classical Thatcher neoliberalism. "Lets focus entirely on finance and services sector and anything else that cannot survive its best to kill off quickly".
I was referring to the crashing out conversation, no one actually knows what will happen except if we take one up the rear from the remainiacs.
If we take the line "nobody knows what will happen" - what we have is a lot of information that does point to the economic impact of a no deal Brexit.

Its like someone saying "lets drive our car of a 50ft cliff". And 9 blokes going "don't be crazy you'll die or at least be very badly hurt" and 1 going "well I've seen people survive such a fall though sometimes they don't" - and you saying "well we don't know for sure so lets do it".

You don't make decisions in life based on "well we can't be sure so lets do it". You weigh up the volume, weight and likely accuracy of the available information then make a decision.
It's not a cliff edge. We have protocols in place. We even have deals in place.
Plus those on the other side see a cliff edge too. We have bridges that can cross both cliff edges. WTO terms are perfectly normal and not a worry.
As I said "Cliff edge" is biased journalism.
What do we have in place? Precisely?
Trade deals of 43bn out of the 117bn we currently exercise through the EU.
Strangely enough not a single EU country in the list. But we have signed off rolling trade deals with:
Switzerland
Turkey
South Korea
Norway
South Africa
Mexico
Egypt
Israel
Palestine
FYR of Macedonia
Morocco
Chile
Colombia
Ghana
Ukraine
Iceland
Algeria
Lebanon
Jordan
Peru
Panama
Tunisia
Ivory Coast
Serbia
Ecuador
Georgia
Dominican Republic
Trinidad
Jamaica
Costa Rica
Mauritius
Namibia
Moldova
Botswana
Madagascar
Guatemala
Papua New Guinea
Faeroe Islands
Cameroon
Belize
El Salvador
Guyana
Bahamas
Mozambique
Barbados
Seychelles
Suriname
Montenegro
Andorra
Antigua & Barbuda
Fiji
Albania
Dominica
Syria
St Kitts & Nevis
Bosnia & Herzegovina
Honduras
Nicaragua
Grenada
eSwatani
Kosovo
and... Lesotho....

............
I remind you here ^^^
[/quote]

Lets take a look at what Brexiteer Liam Fox said about trade deals...
The Secretary of State for International Trade insisted the UK would easily be able to copy and paste all 40 of the EU's external trade deals "the second after midnight" on Brexit day in March 2019.

"We're going to replicate the 40 EU free trade agreements that exist before we leave the European Union so we've got no disruption of trade,"
Ok. So the full 40 trade deals by 29th of March. No issue. No problem. Easy as pie.

Now Liam Fox is a bit thick - goes with the Brexiteer territory. So lets be generous and say he only needed to achieve 75% of his target. You know - lets give him a Brexiteer handicap. 25% is very generous. Exceedingly so.

So he's got 30 right? Ermmm no.

Ok, well lets assume even for a Brexiteer MP he's a on the "more stupid and incompetent than most" and give him a ridiculous 50% handicap.

He must, surely have 20 ready to go? What? No?

Christ. As low as 15. That's depressing. Oh what's that Liam not even that?

10?

No? But its already 5 days past your deadline.....

How many then?

8? fecking 8? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842

Well I suppose at least you've done 8....its special fecking needs territory, bottom of the class special needs territory...but still...

Oh wait, what? The 8 you've done aren't even full roll over deals you promised?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47739303

Liam - you are the weakest link. Good bye.

User avatar
Lost Leopard Spot
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 18439
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 11:14 am
Location: In the long grass, hunting for a watering hole.

Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:43 pm

But I've just told you we have 84 trade deals in place...
That's not a leopard!
頑張ってください

User avatar
Lost Leopard Spot
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 18439
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 11:14 am
Location: In the long grass, hunting for a watering hole.

Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:35 pm

That's not a leopard!
頑張ってください

User avatar
Lost Leopard Spot
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 18439
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 11:14 am
Location: In the long grass, hunting for a watering hole.

Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:36 pm

What next?
That's not a leopard!
頑張ってください

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 25479
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: European Second Referendum

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:31 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:43 pm
But I've just told you we have 84 trade deals in place...
Each of the 40 deals covers multiple countries. You’re listed the countries that comprise the 8 deals. That are incomplete. Out of the 40 Fox told us would be a piece of cake prior to end of March.

Another incompetent Brexiteer or yet another in the list of Brexit lies?

You decide....

User avatar
Lost Leopard Spot
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 18439
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 11:14 am
Location: In the long grass, hunting for a watering hole.

Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:58 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:31 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:43 pm
But I've just told you we have 84 trade deals in place...
Each of the 40 deals covers multiple countries. You’re listed the countries that comprise the 8 deals. That are incomplete. Out of the 40 Fox told us would be a piece of cake prior to end of March.

Another incompetent Brexiteer or yet another in the list of Brexit lies?

You decide....
They're complete. Rolling trade deals with 84 countries,!
As I've also said, we don't have trade deals with the USA, China, or Russia. BUT NEITHER DO THE EU.
Has the world come to an end?

(I'd ask the question, "you decide", except I'd prefer it if you had no input into any decision grown ups need to make...)
That's not a leopard!
頑張ってください

Enoch
Icon
Icon
Posts: 4006
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:08 pm
Location: The Garden of England.

Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Enoch » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:17 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:35 pm
Whoop fxcking whoop...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... in-eu-zone
“It is not a secret that the negotiations were blocked over the Gibraltar footnote,” said the Bulgarian socialist MEP Sergei Stanishev, who took over the file from Moraes. “The [EU] council’s irresponsible approach seriously undermines the spirit of sincere cooperation between the EU institutions, and I hope it will not be repeated in the future."

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest