The Politics Thread

[Prufrock]

I keep reading how we're in the middle of a constitutional crisis, and what we need to change to get through it.

Constitutionally, nothing. This is a political crisis which reflects a divided nation. The Constitution is doing its job. Until that gets fixed (and I haven't a fecking clue how) we'll struggle to get anything done. It's a political problem that needs a political answer.

Brexit is the most obvious example of that, but it's only a symptom. The reason the govt can't get its deal through is not because a treasonous Parliament is overstepping its role and thwarting the Govt, but because the Govt doesn't have a majority to pass the laws it wants.

Our FPTP system is supposed to limit that but in today's world even that isn't enough.

In the meantime people on both sides are quick to dismiss their opponents as arguing in bad faith and utterly unwilling to try to see the other's point of view. In fact plenty seen to take glee in the prospect of watching the world burn.

F*cked if I can see a way out. I imagine it involves at least one of another general election/referendum.

[Enoch]

I keep reading how we're in the middle of a constitutional crisis, and what we need to change to get through it.

Constitutionally, nothing. This is a political crisis which reflects a divided nation. The Constitution is doing its job. Until that gets fixed (and I haven't a fecking clue how) we'll struggle to get anything done. It's a political problem that needs a political answer.

Brexit is the most obvious example of that, but it's only a symptom. The reason the govt can't get its deal through is not because a treasonous Parliament is overstepping its role and thwarting the Govt, but because the Govt doesn't have a majority to pass the laws it wants.

Our FPTP system is supposed to limit that but in today's world even that isn't enough.

In the meantime people on both sides are quick to dismiss their opponents as arguing in bad faith and utterly unwilling to try to see the other's point of view. In fact plenty seen to take glee in the prospect of watching the world burn.

F*cked if I can see a way out. I imagine it involves at least one of another general election/referendum

/European Parliament election.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I keep reading how we're in the middle of a constitutional crisis, and what we need to change to get through it.

Constitutionally, nothing. This is a political crisis which reflects a divided nation. The Constitution is doing its job. Until that gets fixed (and I haven't a fecking clue how) we'll struggle to get anything done. It's a political problem that needs a political answer.

Brexit is the most obvious example of that, but it's only a symptom. The reason the govt can't get its deal through is not because a treasonous Parliament is overstepping its role and thwarting the Govt, but because the Govt doesn't have a majority to pass the laws it wants.

Our FPTP system is supposed to limit that but in today's world even that isn't enough.

In the meantime people on both sides are quick to dismiss their opponents as arguing in bad faith and utterly unwilling to try to see the other's point of view. In fact plenty seen to take glee in the prospect of watching the world burn.

F*cked if I can see a way out. I imagine it involves at least one of another general election/referendum

/European Parliament election.

That's nailed on.
I see that to register to be a candidate of The Brexit party has shot up (from nil punt when I first registered the day after they launched back in February) to £100 non refundable.
That alone tells me something...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I keep reading how we're in the middle of a constitutional crisis, and what we need to change to get through it.

Constitutionally, nothing. This is a political crisis which reflects a divided nation. The Constitution is doing its job. Until that gets fixed (and I haven't a fecking clue how) we'll struggle to get anything done. It's a political problem that needs a political answer.

Brexit is the most obvious example of that, but it's only a symptom. The reason the govt can't get its deal through is not because a treasonous Parliament is overstepping its role and thwarting the Govt, but because the Govt doesn't have a majority to pass the laws it wants.

Our FPTP system is supposed to limit that but in today's world even that isn't enough.

In the meantime people on both sides are quick to dismiss their opponents as arguing in bad faith and utterly unwilling to try to see the other's point of view. In fact plenty seen to take glee in the prospect of watching the world burn.

F*cked if I can see a way out. I imagine it involves at least one of another general election/referendum.

But, but, but... We don't have a constitution ...
(If you can manage to ignore Bercow and Her Majesty ..)

[Prufrock]

Don't you start as well!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I've not had a fxcking good riot since Toxteth in 1980.

[TANGODANCER]

F*cked if I can see a way out. I imagine it involves at least one of another general election/referendum.

Genuine ( hypothetical then) question and also admittedly having no clue to the answer: Based on what exactly? Why do we appoint supposedly knowledgeable people to run our country when even a referendum comes out 50-50? That indeed says much about the state of politics. There will never be a real majority due to the nature of power not being communal, but there are far too many cooks in the kitchens to even make a slice of toast without a fire. The whole nature of Parliament and government needs a serious overall for my money. Guy Fawkes and co weren't so daft after all it seems.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

F*cked if I can see a way out. I imagine it involves at least one of another general election/referendum.

Genuine ( hypothetical then) question and also admittedly having no clue to the answer: Based on what exactly? Why do we appoint supposedly knowledgeable people to run our country when even a referendum comes out 50-50? That indeed says much about the state of politics. There will never be a real majority due to the nature of power not being communal, but there are far too many cooks in the kitchens to even make a slice of toast without a fire. The whole nature of Parliament and government needs a serious overall for my money. Guy Fawkes and co weren't so daft after all it seems.

I do wish you'd stop trying to rehabilitate your Catholic yobs...
Although I'm still waiting for the day when the government issues a letter of apology to all Catholics for their appalling handling of the Henry VIII scandal, and then await the claims for millions of pounds of taxpayer's money to compo the relatives...

[Prufrock]

F*cked if I can see a way out. I imagine it involves at least one of another general election/referendum.

Genuine ( hypothetical then) question and also admittedly having no clue to the answer: Based on what exactly? Why do we appoint supposedly knowledgeable people to run our country when even a referendum comes out 50-50? That indeed says much about the state of politics. There will never be a real majority due to the nature of power not being communal, but there are far too many cooks in the kitchens to even make a slice of toast without a fire. The whole nature of Parliament and government needs a serious overall for my money. Guy Fawkes and co weren't so daft after all it seems.

Trust you to side with the Catholic terrorists

I'm not sure it's true there will never be a majority. Since WW2 there have been two elections which resulted in no majority, both in the last decade.

We've also had a referendum that came out 52-48. The country is divided. In that context it's right that the govt struggles to get things done.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

F*cked if I can see a way out. I imagine it involves at least one of another general election/referendum.

Genuine ( hypothetical then) question and also admittedly having no clue to the answer: Based on what exactly? Why do we appoint supposedly knowledgeable people to run our country when even a referendum comes out 50-50? That indeed says much about the state of politics. There will never be a real majority due to the nature of power not being communal, but there are far too many cooks in the kitchens to even make a slice of toast without a fire. The whole nature of Parliament and government needs a serious overall for my money. Guy Fawkes and co weren't so daft after all it seems.

Trust you to side with the Catholic terrorists

I'm not sure it's true there will never be a majority. Since WW2 there have been two elections which resulted in no majority, both in the last decade.

We've also had a referendum that came out 52-48. The country is divided. In that context it's right that the govt struggles to get things done.

That's a very generous interpretation.
The country took part in a referendum. More people than have EVER voted before, voted. More people than have ever voted for anything else in this country, voted LEAVE.
We then had a general election called by a leader of a party who voted the opposite to her electorate, whether national or party, whose party campaigned on the same premise as the major opposition party to accept and implement the decision of the referendum.
And since then the elected representatives of the two parties who promised to implement that decision led by a weak vacuous prime minister who never believed in what she said and is opposed by a weak vacuous arsehole who only wants power at any cost has consistently failed to deliver "Brexit means Brexit", or "No deal is...." etcetera ad fxcking nauseum, and you think this is merely a political crisis....!!!???

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Our putative next Prime Minister. How much more stuff is out there to be dragged up against this Marxist wazzock:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/261722

[Harry Genshaw]

Our putative next Prime Minister. How much more stuff is out there to be dragged up against this Marxist wazzock:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/261722

Another hatchet job.

A headline that suggests he made a comment which on reading the body of the text he clearly didn't. Nice picture of him too!

Should kids attend a Palestinian literary festival? Sure, why not?

Should somebody, who happens to be going to the festival, have sprayed graffiti? Of course not.

Just another chapter in the smoke and mirrors attempts to label Corbyn an anti semite, whilst ensuring anyone promoting anything Palestinian will be fearful they're next.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Our putative next Prime Minister. How much more stuff is out there to be dragged up against this Marxist wazzock:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/261722

Another hatchet job.

A headline that suggests he made a comment which on reading the body of the text he clearly didn't. Nice picture of him too!

Should kids attend a Palestinian literary festival? Sure, why not?

Should somebody, who happens to be going to the festival, have sprayed graffiti? Of course not.

Just another chapter in the smoke and mirrors attempts to label Corbyn an anti semite, whilst ensuring anyone promoting anything Palestinian will be fearful they're next.

Hatchet job?

The Tottenham Palestine Literary Festival.

A bit like the Bolton Arapaho Painting Exhibition.
Or the Perth Azerbaijani Food Bash.

Isn't that called cultural appropriation these days?

(However, as a fan of Palestine, I can see your point of view. I was directing it at Corbyn, not Palestine. You can't possibly be a Corbynista, Can you??!!)

[Harry Genshaw]

I can see your point of view. I was directing it at Corbyn, not Palestine. You can't possibly be a Corbynista, Can you??!!)

Bloody hell! Has Mrs Spots put some prozac in yer Horlicks?!!

I'm not a Corbynista although I was pleased to see him win the leadership. I thought he'd be a refreshing change after all the spin and cosmetics. I should have learned after Blair - they all let you down in the end.

[Hoboh]

Corbyn is clearly a good man just a little misunderstood, cannot wait for him to get into no10 so he and McDonnell can introduce what being a proper citizen entails in terms of cost etc. To the wailing undemocratic middleclass Waitrose remainers.

[BWFC_Insane]

Our putative next Prime Minister. How much more stuff is out there to be dragged up against this Marxist wazzock:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/261722

Another hatchet job.

A headline that suggests he made a comment which on reading the body of the text he clearly didn't. Nice picture of him too!

Should kids attend a Palestinian literary festival? Sure, why not?

Should somebody, who happens to be going to the festival, have sprayed graffiti? Of course not.

Just another chapter in the smoke and mirrors attempts to label Corbyn an anti semite, whilst ensuring anyone promoting anything Palestinian will be fearful they're next.

Now - as you know I'm not a fan of Corbyn. I think he opens himself up to this criticism through his action/inaction. I think he knows many of those who put him where he is are anti-semitic and does not want to rock the boat. Which is shameful. And his stance on Europe means he's completely lost me.

However, I've been following the Rachel Riley storm over anti-semitism in the Labour party. I initially thought she was standing up for something she believed in and had a point. Then this week I watched her interview with Alastair Campbell on youtube....and rapidly changed my mind. It is an enlightening watch for anyone I think. Firstly she clearly is completely out of her depth and does not understand the issues at all. Secondly her frame of reference seems entirely limited to twitter trolls (who may be Corbyn supporters or may very well not be!). And thirdly her mask completely slipped midway through when she was asked who she'd vote for and revealed she'd vote Conservative in a heartbeat. And then made some throwaway "the greens are just as bad....and the Lib Dems can't win" comment. Which to me shows that she is essentially being influenced by others to do what she's doing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwMhHPoxAg

I'm not with you on this entirely - but it certainly has the appearance of an attempt at personal smear being well orchestrated. As I've said before I do not remember the same personal vitriol directed at a PM who has deliberately pursued actual policies that she knew full well would incite racism.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

After his last outburst about "White Saviours" it would appear David Lammy really does not like white people...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11140 ... w-Marr-BBC

[malcd1]

Our putative next Prime Minister. How much more stuff is out there to be dragged up against this Marxist wazzock:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/261722

Another hatchet job.

A headline that suggests he made a comment which on reading the body of the text he clearly didn't. Nice picture of him too!

Should kids attend a Palestinian literary festival? Sure, why not?

Should somebody, who happens to be going to the festival, have sprayed graffiti? Of course not.

Just another chapter in the smoke and mirrors attempts to label Corbyn an anti semite, whilst ensuring anyone promoting anything Palestinian will be fearful they're next.

Now - as you know I'm not a fan of Corbyn. I think he opens himself up to this criticism through his action/inaction. I think he knows many of those who put him where he is are anti-semitic and does not want to rock the boat. Which is shameful. And his stance on Europe means he's completely lost me.

However, I've been following the Rachel Riley storm over anti-semitism in the Labour party. I initially thought she was standing up for something she believed in and had a point. Then this week I watched her interview with Alastair Campbell on youtube....and rapidly changed my mind. It is an enlightening watch for anyone I think. Firstly she clearly is completely out of her depth and does not understand the issues at all. Secondly her frame of reference seems entirely limited to twitter trolls (who may be Corbyn supporters or may very well not be!). And thirdly her mask completely slipped midway through when she was asked who she'd vote for and revealed she'd vote Conservative in a heartbeat. And then made some throwaway "the greens are just as bad....and the Lib Dems can't win" comment. Which to me shows that she is essentially being influenced by others to do what she's doing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwMhHPoxAg

I'm not with you on this entirely - but it certainly has the appearance of an attempt at personal smear being well orchestrated. As I've said before I do not remember the same personal vitriol directed at a PM who has deliberately pursued actual policies that she knew full well would incite racism.

I have listened to this interview in full. First off she says up until recently she had little interest in politics. She said she has become more interested in recent years due to Trump and Brexit but still doesn't consider herself to be political.

So presumably, as she doesn't particularly like any of the main parties and the only one she feel she can vote for is the Conservative party means she has a hidden agenda? Whatever you saw in this interview I certainly didn't see it. Perhaps your political persuasion means you cannot watch it objectively as she doesn't agree with you. You do have a problem acknowledging people can have a different opinion from you without you either being suspicious or you thinking they are stupid.

I personally thought she came across well (for a red). I did not agree with everything she said but she entitled to her own opinion.

[BWFC_Insane]

Our putative next Prime Minister. How much more stuff is out there to be dragged up against this Marxist wazzock:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/261722

Another hatchet job.

A headline that suggests he made a comment which on reading the body of the text he clearly didn't. Nice picture of him too!

Should kids attend a Palestinian literary festival? Sure, why not?

Should somebody, who happens to be going to the festival, have sprayed graffiti? Of course not.

Just another chapter in the smoke and mirrors attempts to label Corbyn an anti semite, whilst ensuring anyone promoting anything Palestinian will be fearful they're next.

Now - as you know I'm not a fan of Corbyn. I think he opens himself up to this criticism through his action/inaction. I think he knows many of those who put him where he is are anti-semitic and does not want to rock the boat. Which is shameful. And his stance on Europe means he's completely lost me.

However, I've been following the Rachel Riley storm over anti-semitism in the Labour party. I initially thought she was standing up for something she believed in and had a point. Then this week I watched her interview with Alastair Campbell on youtube....and rapidly changed my mind. It is an enlightening watch for anyone I think. Firstly she clearly is completely out of her depth and does not understand the issues at all. Secondly her frame of reference seems entirely limited to twitter trolls (who may be Corbyn supporters or may very well not be!). And thirdly her mask completely slipped midway through when she was asked who she'd vote for and revealed she'd vote Conservative in a heartbeat. And then made some throwaway "the greens are just as bad....and the Lib Dems can't win" comment. Which to me shows that she is essentially being influenced by others to do what she's doing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwMhHPoxAg

I'm not with you on this entirely - but it certainly has the appearance of an attempt at personal smear being well orchestrated. As I've said before I do not remember the same personal vitriol directed at a PM who has deliberately pursued actual policies that she knew full well would incite racism.

I have listened to this interview in full. First off she says up until recently she had little interest in politics. She said she has become more interested in recent years due to Trump and Brexit but still doesn't consider herself to be political.

So presumably, as she doesn't particularly like any of the main parties and the only one she feel she can vote for is the Conservative party means she has a hidden agenda? Whatever you saw in this interview I certainly didn't see it. Perhaps your political persuasion means you cannot watch it objectively as she doesn't agree with you. You do have a problem acknowledging people can have a different opinion from you without you either being suspicious or you thinking they are stupid.

I personally thought she came across well (for a red). I did not agree with everything she said but she entitled to her own opinion.

It screamed to me of "political plant". I mean there are big red flags in it. For example being prepared to say who she intends to vote for, but not who she has in the past voted for.

The comment that really opened my eyes was "the greens are just as bad". What on earth does that mean? If we're talking anti-semitism in the Labour party I'm not really sure what relevance the "Greens" have to it. It comes across as someone trying to say all the right words but they are in the wrong order. It wasn't the well thought through argument and to me it just feels like her friends like Berger have set her up for a crusade she doesn't fully understand.

As for political persuasion I know Labour voting Corbyn fans who would say the exact same thing. I always feel validated when both extremes tell me I'm wrong because usually it means I'm right!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Our putative next Prime Minister. How much more stuff is out there to be dragged up against this Marxist wazzock:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/261722

Another hatchet job.

A headline that suggests he made a comment which on reading the body of the text he clearly didn't. Nice picture of him too!

Should kids attend a Palestinian literary festival? Sure, why not?

Should somebody, who happens to be going to the festival, have sprayed graffiti? Of course not.

Just another chapter in the smoke and mirrors attempts to label Corbyn an anti semite, whilst ensuring anyone promoting anything Palestinian will be fearful they're next.

Now - as you know I'm not a fan of Corbyn. I think he opens himself up to this criticism through his action/inaction. I think he knows many of those who put him where he is are anti-semitic and does not want to rock the boat. Which is shameful. And his stance on Europe means he's completely lost me.

However, I've been following the Rachel Riley storm over anti-semitism in the Labour party. I initially thought she was standing up for something she believed in and had a point. Then this week I watched her interview with Alastair Campbell on youtube....and rapidly changed my mind. It is an enlightening watch for anyone I think. Firstly she clearly is completely out of her depth and does not understand the issues at all. Secondly her frame of reference seems entirely limited to twitter trolls (who may be Corbyn supporters or may very well not be!). And thirdly her mask completely slipped midway through when she was asked who she'd vote for and revealed she'd vote Conservative in a heartbeat. And then made some throwaway "the greens are just as bad....and the Lib Dems can't win" comment. Which to me shows that she is essentially being influenced by others to do what she's doing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwMhHPoxAg

I'm not with you on this entirely - but it certainly has the appearance of an attempt at personal smear being well orchestrated. As I've said before I do not remember the same personal vitriol directed at a PM who has deliberately pursued actual policies that she knew full well would incite racism.

I have listened to this interview in full. First off she says up until recently she had little interest in politics. She said she has become more interested in recent years due to Trump and Brexit but still doesn't consider herself to be political.

So presumably, as she doesn't particularly like any of the main parties and the only one she feel she can vote for is the Conservative party means she has a hidden agenda? Whatever you saw in this interview I certainly didn't see it. Perhaps your political persuasion means you cannot watch it objectively as she doesn't agree with you. You do have a problem acknowledging people can have a different opinion from you without you either being suspicious or you thinking they are stupid.

I personally thought she came across well (for a red). I did not agree with everything she said but she entitled to her own opinion.

It screamed to me of "political plant". I mean there are big red flags in it. For example being prepared to say who she intends to vote for, but not who she has in the past voted for.

The comment that really opened my eyes was "the greens are just as bad". What on earth does that mean? If we're talking anti-semitism in the Labour party I'm not really sure what relevance the "Greens" have to it. It comes across as someone trying to say all the right words but they are in the wrong order. It wasn't the well thought through argument and to me it just feels like her friends like Berger have set her up for a crusade she doesn't fully understand.

As for political persuasion I know Labour voting Corbyn fans who would say the exact same thing. I always feel validated when both extremes tell me I'm wrong because usually it means I'm right!

So!
Do you know you think you are right, or do you think you know you're right?