News stories that make you think, or not...

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Re: News stories that make you think, or not...

Post by Prufrock » Wed May 22, 2019 9:39 pm

:D friend first, teacher second. Probably entertainer third.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

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Re: News stories that make you think, or not...

Post by TANGODANCER » Wed May 22, 2019 10:15 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:35 pm

It’s time that we started doing what is right rather than pandering to conservative religious types who are only interested in doing the opposite of that.
Doing what is right? .....So, are you off the racism kick this week and on to sex gender in the millenium campaign, or what? See, being one of those conservative religious types who have managed almost eighty years taking everything as it came along, I ask you, did you take another fictitious poll to determine that the whole world is a terribly evil place and not just a minority? Never had any mention of sex at all at school (except schoolboy smut and behind-the-hands toilet humour when one brave soul had a line drawing of men and women's private bits and got caned) See, us religious types had respect for parents and teachers , obeyed rules and just grew up gradually. Oh, we didn't live in any wonderful world, far from it,I got bullied a great deal at primary school, more so for fighting back, and that got me canings too, but it only takes one vicious leader and a lot of sheep to make a gang, pretty much like life in general really........see, decent rules and regs helped keep us religious types in line both at school and home, seems it did the same for the nons too. Funny that.

So, Mr Wonderful, who decides all this non-conservative"what's right" stuff? Seems to me all that has to happen is somebody like you to jump on a soapbox ( most likely just type bile and bullshxt on a keyboard anonymously) and start telling the world how it should be and that's that? How on earth did we ever manage before you came along?
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Re: News stories that make you think, or not...

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu May 23, 2019 8:39 am

TANGODANCER wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 10:15 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:35 pm

It’s time that we started doing what is right rather than pandering to conservative religious types who are only interested in doing the opposite of that.
Doing what is right? .....So, are you off the racism kick this week and on to sex gender in the millenium campaign, or what? See, being one of those conservative religious types who have managed almost eighty years taking everything as it came along, I ask you, did you take another fictitious poll to determine that the whole world is a terribly evil place and not just a minority? Never had any mention of sex at all at school (except schoolboy smut and behind-the-hands toilet humour when one brave soul had a line drawing of men and women's private bits and got caned) See, us religious types had respect for parents and teachers , obeyed rules and just grew up gradually. Oh, we didn't live in any wonderful world, far from it,I got bullied a great deal at primary school, more so for fighting back, and that got me canings too, but it only takes one vicious leader and a lot of sheep to make a gang, pretty much like life in general really........see, decent rules and regs helped keep us religious types in line both at school and home, seems it did the same for the nons too. Funny that.

So, Mr Wonderful, who decides all this non-conservative"what's right" stuff? Seems to me all that has to happen is somebody like you to jump on a soapbox ( most likely just type bile and bullshxt on a keyboard anonymously) and start telling the world how it should be and that's that? How on earth did we ever manage before you came along?
On what grounds do you object to kids being told "you can love anyone" and being told that it doesn't matter if you have "two mummy's" or "two daddy's" you are all the same and treat everyone with love and respect.

What possible issue do you have with that? They aren't being taught about sex, but about relationships and the world and how it is.

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Re: News stories that make you think, or not...

Post by Enoch » Thu May 23, 2019 11:56 am

...one person like me and one that isn't...

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Re: News stories that make you think, or not...

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu May 23, 2019 1:06 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 5:41 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 2:10 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:16 am
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 4:22 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:57 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:54 pm
I've got to admit I've seen no reference to Muslim=brown people anywhere in the above exchange until BWFC_i brought it up.
Unfortunately Muslims can be any fxcking colour. It's not their colour that's the problem... It's what they think that's the problem.
They are all people who do not all think the same.....
That's what you think. I know that they do. Try talking to a Muslim about whether some mythical creature called Allah exists; try asking them what language he speaks; ask them what they'd think about a cartoon that shows the prophet Mohammed.
Every one of them will give the same answer. Any that don't aren't Muslim.
How do you think Jihadi murderers throughout the world seperate out their victims??? They ask them questions.
Christ alive. You ‘know that they do’. The words uttered by massive stinking racists the world over.

Anyhow very quickly I can completely prove you wrong.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&sourc ... 9259548040
What are you fxcking banging on about?
Some queer can still be Muslim. Some white Anglo-Saxon can be Muslim. My entire point is that Anyfxcker can be a Muslim. It was you who equated brown people with Muslims. You can stick your "massive stinking racist" right up your arse, dipshit.
You said you know they all think the same.

Within seconds I could demonstrate an example of divergent views within the religion.

Now if you want to argue ‘they all think the same’ offer some proof. Show me there is no divergence of opinion across the religion at all. That every single Muslim has the same views....

If you keep saying racist things it’s hard to respond in any other way....
And as I said, you're the racist with your Muslims=brown people shite!
As for divergent views!? :conf: whatthefxckityfxck are you talking about. Where, within seconds, have you shown that any Muslim, anywhere on the planet, will tolerate me drawing a cartoon of Mohammed being shagged by his lover?
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Re: News stories that make you think, or not...

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu May 23, 2019 1:18 pm

...Just one out of the billions? Is that too hard to answer?
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Re: News stories that make you think, or not...

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu May 23, 2019 1:23 pm

What? Still no answer, not "within seconds"?
Tell you what, I'll give you hours, days even. A week, a month. I bet you still can't name a single fxcking Muslim who would.

On the other hand I can introduce you to personal friends, brown people no less, who would - but then they aren't Muslim.
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Re: News stories that make you think, or not...

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu May 23, 2019 1:26 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:06 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 5:41 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 2:10 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:16 am
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 4:22 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:57 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:54 pm
I've got to admit I've seen no reference to Muslim=brown people anywhere in the above exchange until BWFC_i brought it up.
Unfortunately Muslims can be any fxcking colour. It's not their colour that's the problem... It's what they think that's the problem.
They are all people who do not all think the same.....
That's what you think. I know that they do. Try talking to a Muslim about whether some mythical creature called Allah exists; try asking them what language he speaks; ask them what they'd think about a cartoon that shows the prophet Mohammed.
Every one of them will give the same answer. Any that don't aren't Muslim.
How do you think Jihadi murderers throughout the world seperate out their victims??? They ask them questions.
Christ alive. You ‘know that they do’. The words uttered by massive stinking racists the world over.

Anyhow very quickly I can completely prove you wrong.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&sourc ... 9259548040
What are you fxcking banging on about?
Some queer can still be Muslim. Some white Anglo-Saxon can be Muslim. My entire point is that Anyfxcker can be a Muslim. It was you who equated brown people with Muslims. You can stick your "massive stinking racist" right up your arse, dipshit.
You said you know they all think the same.

Within seconds I could demonstrate an example of divergent views within the religion.

Now if you want to argue ‘they all think the same’ offer some proof. Show me there is no divergence of opinion across the religion at all. That every single Muslim has the same views....

If you keep saying racist things it’s hard to respond in any other way....
And as I said, you're the racist with your Muslims=brown people shite!
As for divergent views!? :conf: whatthefxckityfxck are you talking about. Where, within seconds, have you shown that any Muslim, anywhere on the planet, will tolerate me drawing a cartoon of Mohammed being shagged by his lover?
You said "I know they all think the same". I showed you evidence they have divergent opinions - specifically on the very topic I was discussing.

You haven't offered anything beyond wild (and offensive) opinions.

Best that we leave this here because I have no intention of discussing this with you further.

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Re: News stories that make you think, or not...

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu May 23, 2019 1:34 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:26 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:06 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 5:41 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 2:10 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 9:16 am
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 4:22 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:57 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:54 pm
I've got to admit I've seen no reference to Muslim=brown people anywhere in the above exchange until BWFC_i brought it up.
Unfortunately Muslims can be any fxcking colour. It's not their colour that's the problem... It's what they think that's the problem.
They are all people who do not all think the same.....
That's what you think. I know that they do. Try talking to a Muslim about whether some mythical creature called Allah exists; try asking them what language he speaks; ask them what they'd think about a cartoon that shows the prophet Mohammed.
Every one of them will give the same answer. Any that don't aren't Muslim.
How do you think Jihadi murderers throughout the world seperate out their victims??? They ask them questions.
Christ alive. You ‘know that they do’. The words uttered by massive stinking racists the world over.

Anyhow very quickly I can completely prove you wrong.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&sourc ... 9259548040
What are you fxcking banging on about?
Some queer can still be Muslim. Some white Anglo-Saxon can be Muslim. My entire point is that Anyfxcker can be a Muslim. It was you who equated brown people with Muslims. You can stick your "massive stinking racist" right up your arse, dipshit.
You said you know they all think the same.

Within seconds I could demonstrate an example of divergent views within the religion.

Now if you want to argue ‘they all think the same’ offer some proof. Show me there is no divergence of opinion across the religion at all. That every single Muslim has the same views....

If you keep saying racist things it’s hard to respond in any other way....
And as I said, you're the racist with your Muslims=brown people shite!
As for divergent views!? :conf: whatthefxckityfxck are you talking about. Where, within seconds, have you shown that any Muslim, anywhere on the planet, will tolerate me drawing a cartoon of Mohammed being shagged by his lover?
You said "I know they all think the same". I showed you evidence they have divergent opinions - specifically on the very topic I was discussing.

You haven't offered anything beyond wild (and offensive) opinions.

Best that we leave this here because I have no intention of discussing this with you further.
In what way is anything I've said offensive? Unless you're Muslim? You were the one who brought up 'relationships'.
Do you think Game of Thrones would balk at portrayal of these loving relationships you are defining as part of 21st century British culture?

Come on, show me a link to a single Muslim tolerating a cartoon of Mohammed in this loving relationship!
And we are talking merely cartoons. You know line drawings... I don't even want detail.
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Re: News stories that make you think, or not...

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu May 23, 2019 1:43 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:34 pm

Do you think Game of Thrones would balk at portrayal of these loving relationships you are defining as part of 21st century British culture?
I'm tired of arguing about serious stuff - what did you think of the GoT ending?

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Re: News stories that make you think, or not...

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu May 23, 2019 1:46 pm

Enoch wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 11:56 am
...one person like me and one that isn't...
one person like me and four and a half billion that aren't.
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Re: News stories that make you think, or not...

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu May 23, 2019 1:59 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:43 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:34 pm

Do you think Game of Thrones would balk at portrayal of these loving relationships you are defining as part of 21st century British culture?
I'm tired of arguing about serious stuff - what did you think of the GoT ending?
I loved it. I thought it gave a satisfying ending whilst leaving open the possibility of spin offs, which I'd watch.

I'm not one who thought Daenery's progression was wrong. It seemed realistic to me. She believed in what she was doing. The fact Jon Snow was persuaded was also cool.

I loved Drogon melting the Iron Throne and then flying off. I loved the reunion with Shadow and Jon Snow. I loved the fact that Jon was exiled to Castle Black, never to be married, but just fxcked off north as 'king' of the Wildlings.
I especially look forward to seeing what is west of Westeros.

The only really annoying bits were the lack of continuity between Jon stabbing Daenery's and the council meeting - although I can see why that was contracted to a mere fugue.
And why Greyworm didn't just kick Tyrion to bits rather than let him decide what was to happen at the council. But I can live with both jarring incidents.

Overall I'll give it 9 out of 10.

Favourite bit: Brienne filling in Jaimie's White Book entry
Worst Bit: Samwell Tarly producing the Song of Ice & Fire tome.
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Re: News stories that make you think, or not...

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu May 23, 2019 2:22 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:59 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:43 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:34 pm

Do you think Game of Thrones would balk at portrayal of these loving relationships you are defining as part of 21st century British culture?
I'm tired of arguing about serious stuff - what did you think of the GoT ending?
I loved it. I thought it gave a satisfying ending whilst leaving open the possibility of spin offs, which I'd watch.

I'm not one who thought Daenery's progression was wrong. It seemed realistic to me. She believed in what she was doing. The fact Jon Snow was persuaded was also cool.

I loved Drogon melting the Iron Throne and then flying off. I loved the reunion with Shadow and Jon Snow. I loved the fact that Jon was exiled to Castle Black, never to be married, but just fxcked off north as 'king' of the Wildlings.
I especially look forward to seeing what is west of Westeros.

The only really annoying bits were the lack of continuity between Jon stabbing Daenery's and the council meeting - although I can see why that was contracted to a mere fugue.
And why Greyworm didn't just kick Tyrion to bits rather than let him decide what was to happen at the council. But I can live with both jarring incidents.

Overall I'll give it 9 out of 10.

Favourite bit: Brienne filling in Jaimie's White Book entry
Worst Bit: Samwell Tarly producing the Song of Ice & Fire tome.
They've already said no "spin offs" and said Arya to West of Westeros spin off specifically is not happening. Which is a shame. Think its just a prequel in the works.

I think whilst overall I enjoyed it my view is that the final series was a let down in some ways and pure didn't make sense in others.

Let down: Arya's ability to "adopt faces" was completely ignored. And given she wanted Cersei dead and could become anyone she chose surely Jon/Daenerys would have gone "hang on a second"?

The children of the forest thread was completely shut down to an irrelevance, inspite of season 7 clearly steering towards significance. In the end the night king was just "killed" in the most basic manner.

The revelation about Jon's family line made absolutely no difference to the outcome. Had he not known that the events would not have played out any differently. Daenerys still wouldn't have been liked by his Northern comrades, she still would have lost Jorah, Missandei and her dragon...and still would have flipped. And one has to assume Jon still would have killed her.



Didn't make sense:
Daenerys' character ark - it made sense on a base level but given she's basically traversed the whole time on the edge of "being good" but potentially teetering over the edge - it made little sense that all of a sudden based on a little provocation (in the grand scheme of things seeing your friend beheaded is irksome in GoT land more than rage inducing)....and some isolation which didn't ever entirely make sense....more needed to happen in the character development to explain that sudden "rage".

Tyrion - a bright cynical bloke who was a) repeatedly naive enough to think Cersei would ever do the right thing and b) followed Daenerys around and watched her burn people alive but all of a sudden got a bit squeamish when she destroyed a city....it didn't entirely make sense. A growing sense of worry sure. Being unsure. Yep. But having seen what he had to suddenly flip - seems a bit far fetched in the context that he knew his sister was evil.

One episode the fleet could hit a dragon flying far away across it, then couldn't hit one flying straight at them dead on and closer. Then the next episode the single dragon wiped out a fleet and city without a moment's danger....

Having reached the throne and knowing how she'd taken it and that she was essentially "alone" would Daenerys seriously not have been protected at that point? Would she have trusted Jon Snow given it was clear he wasn't up for "banging his aunt" at this point? And given she knew he was unlikely to be happy.....

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Re: News stories that make you think, or not...

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu May 23, 2019 2:44 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 8:39 am

On what grounds do you object to kids being told "you can love anyone" and being told that it doesn't matter if you have "two mummy's" or "two daddy's" you are all the same and treat everyone with love and respect. What possible issue do you have with that? They aren't being taught about sex, but about relationships and the world and how it is.
Your supposed intelligence worries me, it really does. Firstly, your imagination as to what people say knows no bounds, you're a modern day Walter Mitty. Why tell them at all and make issues of it when they are in childhood and probably have more brains to deal with things than supposed adult advice on such issues? Why highlight it as lessons in school where education in earning a living should be a priority? Why not let the parents deal with their childrens' upbringing and education at home until such time as they can weigh it all up for themselves? Or is it not allowed for them to have opinions that might not agree with yours? Some time in their lives all kids grow up and question things, it's human nature. Is it better to create an Alice in Wonderland world of clones all thinking everything's okay because I say so, or one where diversity exists and allows equality in the things that matter like right and wrong?

This is UK, a Church of England state for hundreds of years with Catholic and Protestant factions as well as non-believers. Our royalty is crowned, married and buried in Westminster Abbey and women clergy are ordained daily. We believe in Christianity (some present company excepted of course). Now we have a massive Muslim influence and a serious possibility of religious wars here eventually unless some tolerance exists on each side either side of a line that you can't see must exist to stop you ramming your foot down your own throat by your "my way or the highway" attitude, you know, "pandering to conservative religious types who are only interested in doing the opposite of that". How arrogant do you think you sounds and what sort of an example does that give to all those kids under sixteen? Will it help anything or is confusion the next topic in your curriculum of "Thou Shalt honour thy father and father"?

Get a grip and dismount the high horse, the kids will mange fine without you.
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Re: News stories that make you think, or not...

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu May 23, 2019 2:58 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 2:44 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 8:39 am

On what grounds do you object to kids being told "you can love anyone" and being told that it doesn't matter if you have "two mummy's" or "two daddy's" you are all the same and treat everyone with love and respect. What possible issue do you have with that? They aren't being taught about sex, but about relationships and the world and how it is.
Your supposed intelligence worries me, it really does. Firstly, your imagination as to what people say knows no bounds, you're a modern day Walter Mitty. Why tell them at all and make issues of it when they are in childhood and probably have more brains to deal with things than supposed adult advice on such issues? Why highlight it as lessons in school where education in earning a living should be a priority? Why not let the parents deal with their childrens' upbringing and education at home until such time as they can weigh it all up for themselves? Or is it not allowed for them to have opinions that might not agree with yours? Some time in their lives all kids grow up and question things, it's human nature. Is it better to create an Alice in Wonderland world of clones all thinking everything's okay because I say so, or one where diversity exists and allows equality in the things that matter like right and wrong?

This is UK, a Church of England state for hundreds of years with Catholic and Protestant factions as well as non-believers. Our royalty is crowned, married and buried in Westminster Abbey and women clergy are ordained daily. We believe in Christianity (some present company excepted of course). Now we have a massive Muslim influence and a serious possibility of religious wars here eventually unless some tolerance exists on each side either side of a line that you can't see must exist to stop you ramming your foot down your own throat by your "my way or the highway" attitude, you know, "pandering to conservative religious types who are only interested in doing the opposite of that". How arrogant do you think you sounds and what sort of an example does that give to all those kids under sixteen? Will it help anything or is confusion the next topic in your curriculum of "Thou Shalt honour thy father and father"?

Get a grip and dismount the high horse, the kids will mange fine without you.
I asked you what your particular issue was in that messaging - because that is what the program is about. You haven't said why you'd object?

And the reason it is necessary is simply because - that reflects our society now. Not all kids have a Mum and a Dad. Yet if in schools everything is discussed in "Mum and Dad" how do you make kids not in that position feel? And ultimately schools mandate for children's education and care has moved on. I personally do think a lot of this should be up to parents to do - but the fact is that as a society - like it or not - this sort of thing is not done by most parents. And they expect schools to fill in the gaps. Additionally it helps break down prejudices that kids may be passed on by their parents.

There is something very specific here - do you think schools should only talk or teach about "mum and dad" and ignore everything else? Because I personally think that is unworkable in reality - kids ask "but I've got two Mummy's" then what? And secondly we know it makes kids feel like shit and enable a culture of bullying. Why shouldn't kids be taught about the world we live in - I do not understand the issue. Stories they read reference families, the reference relationships. Have done ever since you were a child. But they take references from their time period.

I'm asking - if you don't want to try and make all kids feel accepted and increase tolerance and understanding - what is it you want?

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Re: News stories that make you think, or not...

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Thu May 23, 2019 3:09 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 2:22 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:59 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:43 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:34 pm

Do you think Game of Thrones would balk at portrayal of these loving relationships you are defining as part of 21st century British culture?
I'm tired of arguing about serious stuff - what did you think of the GoT ending?
I loved it. I thought it gave a satisfying ending whilst leaving open the possibility of spin offs, which I'd watch.

I'm not one who thought Daenery's progression was wrong. It seemed realistic to me. She believed in what she was doing. The fact Jon Snow was persuaded was also cool.

I loved Drogon melting the Iron Throne and then flying off. I loved the reunion with Shadow and Jon Snow. I loved the fact that Jon was exiled to Castle Black, never to be married, but just fxcked off north as 'king' of the Wildlings.
I especially look forward to seeing what is west of Westeros.

The only really annoying bits were the lack of continuity between Jon stabbing Daenery's and the council meeting - although I can see why that was contracted to a mere fugue.
And why Greyworm didn't just kick Tyrion to bits rather than let him decide what was to happen at the council. But I can live with both jarring incidents.

Overall I'll give it 9 out of 10.

Favourite bit: Brienne filling in Jaimie's White Book entry
Worst Bit: Samwell Tarly producing the Song of Ice & Fire tome.
They've already said no "spin offs" and said Arya to West of Westeros spin off specifically is not happening. Which is a shame. Think its just a prequel in the works.

I think whilst overall I enjoyed it my view is that the final series was a let down in some ways and pure didn't make sense in others.

Let down: Arya's ability to "adopt faces" was completely ignored. And given she wanted Cersei dead and could become anyone she chose surely Jon/Daenerys would have gone "hang on a second"?

The children of the forest thread was completely shut down to an irrelevance, inspite of season 7 clearly steering towards significance. In the end the night king was just "killed" in the most basic manner.

The revelation about Jon's family line made absolutely no difference to the outcome. Had he not known that the events would not have played out any differently. Daenerys still wouldn't have been liked by his Northern comrades, she still would have lost Jorah, Missandei and her dragon...and still would have flipped. And one has to assume Jon still would have killed her.



Didn't make sense:
Daenerys' character ark - it made sense on a base level but given she's basically traversed the whole time on the edge of "being good" but potentially teetering over the edge - it made little sense that all of a sudden based on a little provocation (in the grand scheme of things seeing your friend beheaded is irksome in GoT land more than rage inducing)....and some isolation which didn't ever entirely make sense....more needed to happen in the character development to explain that sudden "rage".

Tyrion - a bright cynical bloke who was a) repeatedly naive enough to think Cersei would ever do the right thing and b) followed Daenerys around and watched her burn people alive but all of a sudden got a bit squeamish when she destroyed a city....it didn't entirely make sense. A growing sense of worry sure. Being unsure. Yep. But having seen what he had to suddenly flip - seems a bit far fetched in the context that he knew his sister was evil.

One episode the fleet could hit a dragon flying far away across it, then couldn't hit one flying straight at them dead on and closer. Then the next episode the single dragon wiped out a fleet and city without a moment's danger....

Having reached the throne and knowing how she'd taken it and that she was essentially "alone" would Daenerys seriously not have been protected at that point? Would she have trusted Jon Snow given it was clear he wasn't up for "banging his aunt" at this point? And given she knew he was unlikely to be happy.....
I've been told by a reliable source that HBO have paid Martin for the rights to "Arya's future" nearly four years ago (BBC producer who lives two miles away who I drink with, and was very upset he couldn't secure the deal - having the rights doesn't necessarily mean they will produce, but I'd put money on it). It includes a clause that the books need to be finished before production can start. It also includes provision for potentially other Stark characters to be 'part of the story' but monies have not changed hands over that.

Unlike yourself, I don't think Daenery's has shown that much goodness. Revisit the scene where her brother is crowned by liquid gold.

Tyrion - in real life people don't make sense. He has always been squeamish. His character arc has shown him being less hedonistic and more moral through time. Nothing in the last series contradicted anything in the previous seven.

Rhaegar (was that his name) was taken out by a weapon Daenery's didn't know existed - it was reavealed as a secret weapon in series 5 (or 4). The trouble with secret weapons is once deployed they are no longer secret.
I was quite enamoured by the symbolism of Drogon streaking out of the sky from the sun - very battle of Britain. It also highlighted Daenery's "rage" - berserkr as our Viking ancestors knew!

The throne scene, I thought poignant. There she was admiring it - you'll note she never actually sat on it. Just then, Jon walks in. He's passed Greyworm, dothraki and Tyrion on his way to confront her - they let him pass. Why would Daenery's suddenly get hysterical at being alone with Jon Snow? I thought it made perfect sense.

I get your point it felt rushed. I think in a way that was because for once a long running series was deliberately wound up, which again, I thought was remarkably different: (no more dithering about whether ratings will handle a further series, as per Lost, Homeland, Breaking Bad etc.)

I'm sorry you thought it a shallow climax. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I even like all the hanging questions we'll never get to know. A bit like life.
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Re: News stories that make you think, or not...

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu May 23, 2019 3:21 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 3:09 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 2:22 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:59 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:43 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 1:34 pm

Do you think Game of Thrones would balk at portrayal of these loving relationships you are defining as part of 21st century British culture?
I'm tired of arguing about serious stuff - what did you think of the GoT ending?
I loved it. I thought it gave a satisfying ending whilst leaving open the possibility of spin offs, which I'd watch.

I'm not one who thought Daenery's progression was wrong. It seemed realistic to me. She believed in what she was doing. The fact Jon Snow was persuaded was also cool.

I loved Drogon melting the Iron Throne and then flying off. I loved the reunion with Shadow and Jon Snow. I loved the fact that Jon was exiled to Castle Black, never to be married, but just fxcked off north as 'king' of the Wildlings.
I especially look forward to seeing what is west of Westeros.

The only really annoying bits were the lack of continuity between Jon stabbing Daenery's and the council meeting - although I can see why that was contracted to a mere fugue.
And why Greyworm didn't just kick Tyrion to bits rather than let him decide what was to happen at the council. But I can live with both jarring incidents.

Overall I'll give it 9 out of 10.

Favourite bit: Brienne filling in Jaimie's White Book entry
Worst Bit: Samwell Tarly producing the Song of Ice & Fire tome.
They've already said no "spin offs" and said Arya to West of Westeros spin off specifically is not happening. Which is a shame. Think its just a prequel in the works.

I think whilst overall I enjoyed it my view is that the final series was a let down in some ways and pure didn't make sense in others.

Let down: Arya's ability to "adopt faces" was completely ignored. And given she wanted Cersei dead and could become anyone she chose surely Jon/Daenerys would have gone "hang on a second"?

The children of the forest thread was completely shut down to an irrelevance, inspite of season 7 clearly steering towards significance. In the end the night king was just "killed" in the most basic manner.

The revelation about Jon's family line made absolutely no difference to the outcome. Had he not known that the events would not have played out any differently. Daenerys still wouldn't have been liked by his Northern comrades, she still would have lost Jorah, Missandei and her dragon...and still would have flipped. And one has to assume Jon still would have killed her.



Didn't make sense:
Daenerys' character ark - it made sense on a base level but given she's basically traversed the whole time on the edge of "being good" but potentially teetering over the edge - it made little sense that all of a sudden based on a little provocation (in the grand scheme of things seeing your friend beheaded is irksome in GoT land more than rage inducing)....and some isolation which didn't ever entirely make sense....more needed to happen in the character development to explain that sudden "rage".

Tyrion - a bright cynical bloke who was a) repeatedly naive enough to think Cersei would ever do the right thing and b) followed Daenerys around and watched her burn people alive but all of a sudden got a bit squeamish when she destroyed a city....it didn't entirely make sense. A growing sense of worry sure. Being unsure. Yep. But having seen what he had to suddenly flip - seems a bit far fetched in the context that he knew his sister was evil.

One episode the fleet could hit a dragon flying far away across it, then couldn't hit one flying straight at them dead on and closer. Then the next episode the single dragon wiped out a fleet and city without a moment's danger....

Having reached the throne and knowing how she'd taken it and that she was essentially "alone" would Daenerys seriously not have been protected at that point? Would she have trusted Jon Snow given it was clear he wasn't up for "banging his aunt" at this point? And given she knew he was unlikely to be happy.....
I've been told by a reliable source that HBO have paid Martin for the rights to "Arya's future" nearly four years ago (BBC producer who lives two miles away who I drink with, and was very upset he couldn't secure the deal - having the rights doesn't necessarily mean they will produce, but I'd put money on it). It includes a clause that the books need to be finished before production can start. It also includes provision for potentially other Stark characters to be 'part of the story' but monies have not changed hands over that.

Unlike yourself, I don't think Daenery's has shown that much goodness. Revisit the scene where her brother is crowned by liquid gold.

Tyrion - in real life people don't make sense. He has always been squeamish. His character arc has shown him being less hedonistic and more moral through time. Nothing in the last series contradicted anything in the previous seven.

Rhaegar (was that his name) was taken out by a weapon Daenery's didn't know existed - it was reavealed as a secret weapon in series 5 (or 4). The trouble with secret weapons is once deployed they are no longer secret.
I was quite enamoured by the symbolism of Drogon streaking out of the sky from the sun - very battle of Britain. It also highlighted Daenery's "rage" - berserkr as our Viking ancestors knew!

The throne scene, I thought poignant. There she was admiring it - you'll note she never actually sat on it. Just then, Jon walks in. He's passed Greyworm, dothraki and Tyrion on his way to confront her - they let him pass. Why would Daenery's suddenly get hysterical at being alone with Jon Snow? I thought it made perfect sense.

I get your point it felt rushed. I think in a way that was because for once a long running series was deliberately wound up, which again, I thought was remarkably different: (no more dithering about whether ratings will handle a further series, as per Lost, Homeland, Breaking Bad etc.)

I'm sorry you thought it a shallow climax. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I even like all the hanging questions we'll never get to know. A bit like life.
Shallow isn't the word. I guess I felt there were just more possibilities unexplored. Like Arya posing as Jamie to kill Cersei or whatever. Better minds can think of superior ones than I.

I know those who read the books say that the TV portrayal of Daenerys was hugely problematic as it made her seem far better, far more "good" than the books. And I guess the problem being that the show's writers set off not knowing the ending. The book readers say that the show set itself up for the backlash with its portrayal. Daenerys was essentially in the show - prepared to do bad things to bad people to help vulnerable people. Sometimes she crossed lines and vulnerable people suffered. But she always rowed back and just about did the right thing (In my view). Ultimately the options seemed to be "starve the city and bring Cersei out" favoured by Jon/Tyrion or "burn the city down". Not sure that burning it was so bad as to merit complete arc of good to evil based on what had been before - but the show certainly tried hard to do an about turn quickly. It was foreshadowed clearly but I'm still somewhat unconvinced. Not that it was the plot - that is fine but more in the execution. It felt like another episode to show the descent and attempts to prevent it was needed at least.

They seem pretty conclusive about no spin offs - I'd love an Arya one but I suspect given the books are delayed and D&D are off to star wars and Martin doesn't want anyone else making GoT in time stuff - its not happening.

https://www.slashfilm.com/game-of-thrones-arya-spinoff/

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Re: News stories that make you think, or not...

Post by Gooner Girl » Thu May 23, 2019 9:39 pm

Not watching GofT but re the sex Ed stuff, surely it’s all about getting a happy medium? Yes, kids should be kids as long as possible - and sometimes there is no need to know some stuff at a very young age, but equally to be taught the facts that are ‘this is how some people live their life and we need to show acceptance’ is not wrong at all. Younger children tend to be more accepting of things then teenagers/adults. Despite what the media tell us, certainly in my, admittedly fairly rural part of the world as a teacher I’ve not come across any transgender kids in my many years of teaching many pupils and only one set of same sex parents. I don’t think that in primary schools especially kids are going to encounter much out of ‘the norm’ that way so I don’t see why it should ALL be taught at a very young age. My twins are 8 and we get told what they are being taught about sex/relationships in PSHE and the option is there to pull them out if we wish. I haven’t yet and don’t really intend to but I’m glad the option is there, my only concern is that yes, seriously conservative religious people - be that Christian, Muslim whatever might then pull their children out of everything and then not explain anything at home either which doesn’t help any child. I will say that it seems a lot more is taught at a much younger age then it was in my generation, maybe that’s due to changes in the world but it’s not like same sex couples/transgender issues etc etc are any new thing.

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Re: News stories that make you think, or not...

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu May 23, 2019 10:13 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 2:58 pm

I'm asking - if you don't want to try and make all kids feel accepted and increase tolerance and understanding - what is it you want?
I would very much like you to cease behaving like a very stupid person, stop trying to put words in to people's mouths and at least try to realise that your opinions on all sports, government and current events are nothing more than that, instead of being a complete buffoon. The main difference between us is that although I may have some strong opinions on things, I do allow that they are no better than the next persons, just maybe different. You only see you own as some sort of crackpot law and any difference is immediately insupportable. Arguing with you makes as much sense as heading a cannonball. That's it from me, I've wasted enough time for one day.
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Re: News stories that make you think, or not...

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu May 23, 2019 10:14 pm

Gooner Girl wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 9:39 pm
Not watching GofT but re the sex Ed stuff, surely it’s all about getting a happy medium? Yes, kids should be kids as long as possible - and sometimes there is no need to know some stuff at a very young age, but equally to be taught the facts that are ‘this is how some people live their life and we need to show acceptance’ is not wrong at all. Younger children tend to be more accepting of things then teenagers/adults. Despite what the media tell us, certainly in my, admittedly fairly rural part of the world as a teacher I’ve not come across any transgender kids in my many years of teaching many pupils and only one set of same sex parents. I don’t think that in primary schools especially kids are going to encounter much out of ‘the norm’ that way so I don’t see why it should ALL be taught at a very young age. My twins are 8 and we get told what they are being taught about sex/relationships in PSHE and the option is there to pull them out if we wish. I haven’t yet and don’t really intend to but I’m glad the option is there, my only concern is that yes, seriously conservative religious people - be that Christian, Muslim whatever might then pull their children out of everything and then not explain anything at home either which doesn’t help any child. I will say that it seems a lot more is taught at a much younger age then it was in my generation, maybe that’s due to changes in the world but it’s not like same sex couples/transgender issues etc etc are any new thing.
Hello G.G, nice to hear from you and amazing to find your twins are eight years old. How time flies. :)
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