The Politics Thread

[BWFC_Insane]

The only time May shows emotion is as she is forced out. This is the Daenerys moment. More interested in her own power than the mess she has made of the country. Crying about losing her job. Yet she’s not bothered about the lack of action on Grenfell, about the huge waiting lists for mental health patients, the pitiful state of the NHS, the rising poverty and child poverty. Nope. Just bothered that she can’t cling onto power a bit longer.

I'm not accusing or defending anyone here because I have neither the political knowledge or interest to do that, but how would Tony Blair, Cameron or any of them have dealt with the bold bit above and still found time to deal with the Brexit issues? Oh, and dealt with a national vote result by the people that was basically ignored/refused by the government. Just wondering....?

Mays idea of ending burning injustices was to have vans driving round telling foreigners to go back home. To ignore rising poverty and pretend it isn’t happening. Blair was by no means faultless but at least pumped money into a failing NHS and improved public services.

NHS is paying massively for Blair/Clowns PFI matey, still lets just gloss that over. And what is wrong with telling illegals to sod off home? After all that was the aim of the vans.

PFI was a mistake absolutely. But the intention was good. And most funding pumped in was from direct government not PFI.

Absolutely far from perfect as I said but better than what followed.

[Hoboh]

The only time May shows emotion is as she is forced out. This is the Daenerys moment. More interested in her own power than the mess she has made of the country. Crying about losing her job. Yet she’s not bothered about the lack of action on Grenfell, about the huge waiting lists for mental health patients, the pitiful state of the NHS, the rising poverty and child poverty. Nope. Just bothered that she can’t cling onto power a bit longer.

I'm not accusing or defending anyone here because I have neither the political knowledge or interest to do that, but how would Tony Blair, Cameron or any of them have dealt with the bold bit above and still found time to deal with the Brexit issues? Oh, and dealt with a national vote result by the people that was basically ignored/refused by the government. Just wondering....?

Mays idea of ending burning injustices was to have vans driving round telling foreigners to go back home. To ignore rising poverty and pretend it isn’t happening. Blair was by no means faultless but at least pumped money into a failing NHS and improved public services.

NHS is paying massively for Blair/Clowns PFI matey, still lets just gloss that over. And what is wrong with telling illegals to sod off home? After all that was the aim of the vans.

PFI was a mistake absolutely. But the intention was good. And most funding pumped in was from direct government not PFI.

Absolutely far from perfect as I said but better than what followed.

Ah so labour is acceptable for good intentions then? I suppose the Tories never have them then, only the brickbats when it goes tits up?

[BWFC_Insane]

The only time May shows emotion is as she is forced out. This is the Daenerys moment. More interested in her own power than the mess she has made of the country. Crying about losing her job. Yet she’s not bothered about the lack of action on Grenfell, about the huge waiting lists for mental health patients, the pitiful state of the NHS, the rising poverty and child poverty. Nope. Just bothered that she can’t cling onto power a bit longer.

I'm not accusing or defending anyone here because I have neither the political knowledge or interest to do that, but how would Tony Blair, Cameron or any of them have dealt with the bold bit above and still found time to deal with the Brexit issues? Oh, and dealt with a national vote result by the people that was basically ignored/refused by the government. Just wondering....?

Mays idea of ending burning injustices was to have vans driving round telling foreigners to go back home. To ignore rising poverty and pretend it isn’t happening. Blair was by no means faultless but at least pumped money into a failing NHS and improved public services.

NHS is paying massively for Blair/Clowns PFI matey, still lets just gloss that over. And what is wrong with telling illegals to sod off home? After all that was the aim of the vans.

PFI was a mistake absolutely. But the intention was good. And most funding pumped in was from direct government not PFI.

Absolutely far from perfect as I said but better than what followed.

Ah so labour is acceptable for good intentions then? I suppose the Tories never have them then, only the brickbats when it goes tits up?

Cameron’s social program was excellent. And well intentioned. And I said so at the time. It’s just a shame that he waged a war on public services that disproportionate impacted the worst off in society.

Unlike you I’m not wedded to either end of the political spectrum. I want moderate, sensible and progressive politics. There is a very good chance I’d vote for a Liddington led Tory party over a Corbyn led Labour one. A nailed on certainty.

I’d vote for practically anyone over a Boris/Leadsome/Gove led Tory party though.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Interestingly after a scan through a lot of the press just how the remainers are going into meltdown because no deal appears to be coming back onto the table. Even old Mac is shouting for a second referendum now saying mysteriously it is labours position, think he'd be better waiting to see the figures from the EU elections of how many millions of the Brexiteer voters have, well according to remainiacs imaginary figures department anyway, changed their minds, think it might be a shock. Still I won't ruin some peoples Sunday with a large dose of reality.

Oh, I think maybe we should run a new poll on this thread.

The Labour vote is moving to the Lib Dems at a rate of knots...80% of Labour voters are remainers. So are voting for the bollocks to Brexit party.

How you’ve missed this is beyond me.

You keep quoting this 80% of Labour voters are Remainers shite.
Not in my parish, ward, constituency, county, region they aren't.

Where do you live?

I'd guess London

[Lost Leopard Spot]

...

...
In fact who Are you?
I know Enoch lives in Kent and has walked miles after staying for a further round; Domingos is a young punk; Tangodancer has a wife, a dog and a radio to run when he's not tango dancing; Prufrock used to wear a pink dressing gown on a Paris balcony in the mornings drinking fruit juice; Hoboh and Putin have ridden on loud motorbikes to Matlock Bath just to piss me off; Crazy Horse caused Chernobyl; I even know that Jakerbeef is Oirish and Little Green Man is based north of the wall?
But you? Nothing, apart from you moan a lot.
Are you married, do you have children, are you gay? Where do you live, what's your job, how is the therapy progressing?

(I'm merely asking to get a handle on where the fxck your head's at - you're like Theresa May of the Wanderers, inscrutably vacant with numerous red lines).

[Enoch]

Domingos is a young punk;

Not anymore he's not.

In fact who Are you?

I have this image of The Wizard of Oz.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Domingos is a young punk;

Not anymore he's not.

He's eight years younger than me, the whippersnapper!

[TANGODANCER]

...In fact who Are you?
I know Enoch lives in Kent and has walked miles after staying for a further round; Domingos is a young punk; Tangodancer has a wife, a dog and a radio to run when he's not tango dancing; Prufrock used to wear a pink dressing gown on a Paris balcony in the mornings drinking fruit juice; Hoboh and Putin have ridden on loud motorbikes to Matlock Bath just to piss me off; Crazy Horse caused Chernobyl; I even know that Jakerbeef is Oirish and Little Green Man is based north of the wall?
But you? Nothing, apart from you moan a lot.
Are you married, do you have children, are you gay? Where do you live, what's your job, how is the therapy progressing? (I'm merely asking to get a handle on where the fxck your head's at - you're like Theresa May of the Wanderers, inscrutably vacant with numerous red lines).

You may have to wait a while for the answer Spots. Our international man of mystery usually applies the debaters handbook method and answers any direct question with a question. Better have your history ready..

[Enoch]

Domingos is a young punk;

Not anymore he's not.

He's eight years younger than me, the whippersnapper!

I couldn't possibly comment, other than to say he looks much older than me.

[jimbo]

Have last night’s results changed anything? Undoubtably a win for the Brexit party, but the results show about a third of the electorate supporting a no deal hard Brexit.
On the flip the support for LD, Green, SNP and CUK puts parties backing a firm remain position slightly ahead.
Christ knows what conservative or labour voters are thinking.

So, has anything changed? Parliament has had a good go at deciding what it wants, and can’t. The country remains divided with highly polarised views.

I’d been unsure about a second referendum given it would likely just divide things further, but I’m not sure what other options are on the table.

The real concern is whether the Conservative party see those Brexit Party votes as there for the taking, and lurch to the right in the coming leadership elections.

Whatever your interpretation of last night you can’t deny things remain highly fascinating yet extremely complex.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

^
Never mind the voters what are the party politicians in Labour and Conservatives thinking?

Labour party wonk on TV at the moment refusing to say anything:
"We need to step up to the plate... We want to unite the country... We want to avoid a deeply disatrous no-deal Brexit... Blah blah bla"
When asked directly 'are Labour a Leave or a Remain party?' the stunning answer was "we want to unite the country"

Party Politicians are total tits. They really show themselves up when questioned the morning after an election they've lost.

[jimbo]

I think both major parties (labour especially) are crippled by fear of doing the wrong thing purely in terms of losing voters. They’re both in positions where whatever position they take on Brexit will see them lose huge amounts of voters to other parties, so they’re stuck on the fence trying to keep voters on either side. Party politics coming before national interest.

Labour are complicated by having a lifelong staunch eurosceptic at the helm of a broadly remain supporting group of MPs which is also fun.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I think both major parties (labour especially) are crippled by fear of doing the wrong thing purely in terms of losing voters. They’re both in positions where whatever position they take on Brexit will see them lose huge amounts of voters to other parties, so they’re stuck on the fence trying to keep voters on either side. Party politics coming before national interest.

Labour are complicated by having a lifelong staunch eurosceptic at the helm of a broadly remain supporting group of MPs which is also fun.

Quite a few Labour MPs (Dennis Skinner and Kate Hoey to name but two) are more to the right than the Tories on Brexit.

[Hoboh]

Interesting to see that, well according to remainers anyway, all those millions of leavers who had changed their minds, misguided, too thick to understand the consequences have changed their minds! which group are the liars and deluded again........
The real villains behind the mess are starting to pay the price, May, Oily Robbins, Chucka the Sucka, Sour pus and the totally deluded head cuk, Hedi change UK is down but not out Hi The hard core remainers wrecked any chance of a decent negotiated deal and are on the point of their own sword.

Oh just an after thought, good morning Gina where are all your missing millions now? Don't let the door.........

[jimbo]

Interesting to see that, well according to remainers anyway, all those millions of leavers who had changed their minds, misguided, too thick to understand the consequences have changed their minds! which group are the liars and deluded again........
The real villains behind the mess are starting to pay the price, May, Oily Robbins, Chucka the Sucka, Sour pus and the totally deluded head cuk, Hedi change UK is down but not out Hi The hard core remainers wrecked any chance of a decent negotiated deal and are on the point of their own sword.

Oh just an after thought, good morning Gina where are all your missing millions now? Don't let the door.........

I wouldn’t say the ‘hardcore remainers’ are on the point of their own sword, given the combined vote share for remain parties was greater than that of the hardcore leave parties.

Last night showed there isn’t really an overwhelming majority for anything. Don’t forget only just over a third of the electorate voted for Brexit Party or UKIP. That’s a decent number and may increase with time but not enough to shape policy really given a much higher 48% voted the the deal we currently have a couple of years ago.

I genuinely think we’re at an impasse and last night reinforced that.

[Hoboh]

Interesting to see that, well according to remainers anyway, all those millions of leavers who had changed their minds, misguided, too thick to understand the consequences have changed their minds! which group are the liars and deluded again........
The real villains behind the mess are starting to pay the price, May, Oily Robbins, Chucka the Sucka, Sour pus and the totally deluded head cuk, Hedi change UK is down but not out Hi The hard core remainers wrecked any chance of a decent negotiated deal and are on the point of their own sword.

Oh just an after thought, good morning Gina where are all your missing millions now? Don't let the door.........

I wouldn’t say the ‘hardcore remainers’ are on the point of their own sword, given the combined vote share for remain parties was greater than that of the hardcore leave parties.

Last night showed there isn’t really an overwhelming majority for anything. Don’t forget only just over a third of the electorate voted for Brexit Party or UKIP. That’s a decent number and may increase with time but not enough to shape policy really given a much higher 48% voted the the deal we currently have a couple of years ago.

I genuinely think we’re at an impasse and last night reinforced that.

The real hardcore remainers are the cuks and they got flattened! Greens and Lib Dem were not voted for purely because they were anti-Brexit either, seems to be being skipped over by a lot of commentators.
A one policy party 6 weeks old waltzed to victory in these elections that were under a form of PR to boot, not first past the post.
I agree the country is divided but the lying remainers should admit they were dead wrong about millions changing their mind because they didn't know what they were voting for, we need a second referendum because they have seen and learned etc.
But for remain interference and the worst PM in history we'd be out by now and carrying on with things that matter.

[jimbo]

What would be everyone’s next move, were they in charge, and also, what does everyone think will happen?

I can’t see past a second referendum personally. It’s possibly the least divisive option. There’s no chance of any conservative backing that though - the concern is that a new Tory leader tries to hoover up the Brexit Party votes.

Hard Brexit clearly has support which may grow further, but at around a third of the electorate isn’t enough to drag us out now.

Prospect of any other deal looks slim, and getting one over the line by October looks nigh on impossible.

Revoking article 50 again clearly has no mandate.

My guess is that Tory’s lurch to the right, and labour, greens, LD, CUK and SNP alongside disaffected Tory’s then join to bring down the government and force a GE. Christ knows what happens then!

[Hoboh]

What would be everyone’s next move, were they in charge, and also, what does everyone think will happen?

I can’t see past a second referendum personally. It’s possibly the least divisive option. There’s no chance of any conservative backing that though - the concern is that a new Tory leader tries to hoover up the Brexit Party votes.

Hard Brexit clearly has support which may grow further, but at around a third of the electorate isn’t enough to drag us out now.

Prospect of any other deal looks slim, and getting one over the line by October looks nigh on impossible.

Revoking article 50 again clearly has no mandate.

My guess is that Tory’s lurch to the right, and labour, greens, LD, CUK and SNP alongside disaffected Tory’s then join to bring down the government and force a GE. Christ knows what happens then!

The ball is firmly in the Tory party's hands now, one more cock up then lord alone knows what will happen.
A second referendum is out of the question what would be agreed to put on a ballot paper?

[jimbo]

What would be everyone’s next move, were they in charge, and also, what does everyone think will happen?

I can’t see past a second referendum personally. It’s possibly the least divisive option. There’s no chance of any conservative backing that though - the concern is that a new Tory leader tries to hoover up the Brexit Party votes.

Hard Brexit clearly has support which may grow further, but at around a third of the electorate isn’t enough to drag us out now.

Prospect of any other deal looks slim, and getting one over the line by October looks nigh on impossible.

Revoking article 50 again clearly has no mandate.

My guess is that Tory’s lurch to the right, and labour, greens, LD, CUK and SNP alongside disaffected Tory’s then join to bring down the government and force a GE. Christ knows what happens then!

The ball is firmly in the Tory party's hands now, one more cock up then lord alone knows what will happen.
A second referendum is out of the question what would be agreed to put on a ballot paper?

I’m not sure how easy it would be to do, but I’d have a 2 stage question.
1. Leave or remain
2. In the event of us leaving, would you do so on agreed terms (either May’s deal or another that has been negotiated) or a no deal Brexit.

It would have to be with clear, unambiguous choices.

Agreed the ball is in the Tory party hands, but again I’m not sure what they can do with it, or want to do with it! Both hardcore Brexiters and remainders will take encouragement from the European elections, so whichever path they take from here will lead to rebellion in their own ranks and with no majority they’ll be unable to get anything done.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Interesting to see that, well according to remainers anyway, all those millions of leavers who had changed their minds, misguided, too thick to understand the consequences have changed their minds! which group are the liars and deluded again........
The real villains behind the mess are starting to pay the price, May, Oily Robbins, Chucka the Sucka, Sour pus and the totally deluded head cuk, Hedi change UK is down but not out Hi The hard core remainers wrecked any chance of a decent negotiated deal and are on the point of their own sword.

Oh just an after thought, good morning Gina where are all your missing millions now? Don't let the door.........

I wouldn’t say the ‘hardcore remainers’ are on the point of their own sword, given the combined vote share for remain parties was greater than that of the hardcore leave parties.

Last night showed there isn’t really an overwhelming majority for anything. Don’t forget only just over a third of the electorate voted for Brexit Party or UKIP. That’s a decent number and may increase with time but not enough to shape policy really given a much higher 48% voted the the deal we currently have a couple of years ago.

I genuinely think we’re at an impasse and last night reinforced that.

I keep on seeing this, especially on the BBC.
Supposedly 40% Anti-Brexit, 34% Pro-Brexit. Talk about spin.
In reality it is 41% Remain parties, 34% No-dealers, or
44% Leavers v 41% Remainers (with anybody's guess as to what a Labour vote meant).

The next thing being banged on about is the low turnout
Well if anybody thinks fanatically pro Remain didn't vote they need their heads testing, it was for the Europarliament after all. Leavers who aren't No-dealers were most likely not to vote.

It's up to the next Tory PM to leave in October and weather the political fallout. There will be plenty of hysteria, but frankly it'll be a welcome change to the artificial stalemate we've endured for three years.