Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm
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Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm
Now Hill wades in on Zouma...
https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... te-harder/
I agree with every word Hill says - inspite of his crowd favourite status I think Zouma is pretty poor - physically very good but his actual defending is poor - reading of the game, positioning - all over the show.
However, given we've no fit centre backs - how is publicly calling him out helping? He's already done this to him once. It just seems needless criticism in public. Have a private chat with him. But going out of your way to criticise players?
Above someone said Mourinho did this - but far as I remember he only criticised players when things were going wrong at Man Utd. When he was successful at Chelsea and Porto he created a bubble where he protected his players publicly regardless.
Given Hill is so critical of relatively young lads trying to build their careers on peanuts I'd hate to think what he'd have said were he our manager a few years earlier with some highly paid players taking the piss....
https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... te-harder/
I agree with every word Hill says - inspite of his crowd favourite status I think Zouma is pretty poor - physically very good but his actual defending is poor - reading of the game, positioning - all over the show.
However, given we've no fit centre backs - how is publicly calling him out helping? He's already done this to him once. It just seems needless criticism in public. Have a private chat with him. But going out of your way to criticise players?
Above someone said Mourinho did this - but far as I remember he only criticised players when things were going wrong at Man Utd. When he was successful at Chelsea and Porto he created a bubble where he protected his players publicly regardless.
Given Hill is so critical of relatively young lads trying to build their careers on peanuts I'd hate to think what he'd have said were he our manager a few years earlier with some highly paid players taking the piss....
Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm
^ Mourinho once said of Joe Cole - in public - "One more game like that and he's out." That was when he was winning titles at Chelsea.
It's not the only time he's publicly called out players, especially Cole. And yet Cole now calls him a 'Master Motivator' who gets more juice out of his players:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... vator.html
And yeah, Mourinho did it with Shaw at United, saying "it was Shaw's body out there but my brain." Seemed harsh at the time but a few months later Shaw was playing a blinder and looked a different player. And that criticism didn't come during the bad days either - United won the Europa League that season.
Sometimes, you've gotta hold players accountable. Let's see if Hill's methods work over the long-term rather than getting upset about it atm.
It's not the only time he's publicly called out players, especially Cole. And yet Cole now calls him a 'Master Motivator' who gets more juice out of his players:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... vator.html
And yeah, Mourinho did it with Shaw at United, saying "it was Shaw's body out there but my brain." Seemed harsh at the time but a few months later Shaw was playing a blinder and looked a different player. And that criticism didn't come during the bad days either - United won the Europa League that season.
Sometimes, you've gotta hold players accountable. Let's see if Hill's methods work over the long-term rather than getting upset about it atm.
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Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm
Mourinho made an absolute c*nt of himself by calling out Luke Shaw and making his life a public misery . Course, since the brow-beating tosser was sacked in Dec 18, Shaw was announced as United's player of the month for March – achieving three in total that season. At the end of the season, Shaw was voted Manchester United Players' Player of the Year and Sir Matt Busby Player of the Year.
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Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm
And one might argue that those comments in early 2006 - were the beginning of the end for that Mourinho spell at Chelsea...Jugs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:32 am^ Mourinho once said of Joe Cole - in public - "One more game like that and he's out." That was when he was winning titles at Chelsea.
It's not the only time he's publicly called out players, especially Cole. And yet Cole now calls him a 'Master Motivator' who gets more juice out of his players:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... vator.html
And yeah, Mourinho did it with Shaw at United, saying "it was Shaw's body out there but my brain." Seemed harsh at the time but a few months later Shaw was playing a blinder and looked a different player. And that criticism didn't come during the bad days either - United won the Europa League that season.
Sometimes, you've gotta hold players accountable. Let's see if Hill's methods work over the long-term rather than getting upset about it atm.
I think that there is a difference in trying to shape a players attitude and performance and using the media to perhaps explain what you see as "their issues" that constantly hanging them out to dry in the media. Especially in the position we're in.
It doesn't sit well with me. Say things in private - hint at them publicly if you choose, but don't just pick on people needlessly.
Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm
If nothing else, keep doing it and it'll lose any impact it might have once had.
Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm
Shaw also said Mourinho was right to publicly criticise him and even credited him with getting his career back on track. Not that I'd personally condone it, I did think Mourinho's comments were a bit self-centred on that occasion.Bruce Rioja wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:36 amMourinho made an absolute c*nt of himself by calling out Luke Shaw and making his life a public misery . Course, since the brow-beating tosser was sacked in Dec 18, Shaw was announced as United's player of the month for March – achieving three in total that season. At the end of the season, Shaw was voted Manchester United Players' Player of the Year and Sir Matt Busby Player of the Year.
Honestly, my opinion is this: Hill is clearly doing things right at the moment because our form has improved, we're not leaking goals and we're playing well. Like his methods or not, something is clicking.
Last edited by Jugs on Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm
That's stretching things tbf. They won another title that season and it wasn't until the next season when his relationship with Abramovich went to shit. And that wasn't down to the way he treated his players.BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:01 amAnd one might argue that those comments in early 2006 - were the beginning of the end for that Mourinho spell at Chelsea...Jugs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:32 am^ Mourinho once said of Joe Cole - in public - "One more game like that and he's out." That was when he was winning titles at Chelsea.
It's not the only time he's publicly called out players, especially Cole. And yet Cole now calls him a 'Master Motivator' who gets more juice out of his players:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... vator.html
And yeah, Mourinho did it with Shaw at United, saying "it was Shaw's body out there but my brain." Seemed harsh at the time but a few months later Shaw was playing a blinder and looked a different player. And that criticism didn't come during the bad days either - United won the Europa League that season.
Sometimes, you've gotta hold players accountable. Let's see if Hill's methods work over the long-term rather than getting upset about it atm.
I think that there is a difference in trying to shape a players attitude and performance and using the media to perhaps explain what you see as "their issues" that constantly hanging them out to dry in the media. Especially in the position we're in.
It doesn't sit well with me. Say things in private - hint at them publicly if you choose, but don't just pick on people needlessly.
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Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm
Maybe but the circumstances were different in that year than his first season for sure.Jugs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:58 amThat's stretching things tbf. They won another title that season and it wasn't until the next season when his relationship with Abramovich went to shit. And that wasn't down to the way he treated his players.BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:01 amAnd one might argue that those comments in early 2006 - were the beginning of the end for that Mourinho spell at Chelsea...Jugs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:32 am^ Mourinho once said of Joe Cole - in public - "One more game like that and he's out." That was when he was winning titles at Chelsea.
It's not the only time he's publicly called out players, especially Cole. And yet Cole now calls him a 'Master Motivator' who gets more juice out of his players:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... vator.html
And yeah, Mourinho did it with Shaw at United, saying "it was Shaw's body out there but my brain." Seemed harsh at the time but a few months later Shaw was playing a blinder and looked a different player. And that criticism didn't come during the bad days either - United won the Europa League that season.
Sometimes, you've gotta hold players accountable. Let's see if Hill's methods work over the long-term rather than getting upset about it atm.
I think that there is a difference in trying to shape a players attitude and performance and using the media to perhaps explain what you see as "their issues" that constantly hanging them out to dry in the media. Especially in the position we're in.
It doesn't sit well with me. Say things in private - hint at them publicly if you choose, but don't just pick on people needlessly.
But regardless digging players out in public usually does not end well.
Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm
No safe spaces nor hand waving out there eh Pru.
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Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm
Again, Zouma was OK tue
Deffo a couple of times he was out of position / wandering. But for a guy with little first team football he’s doing ok??? I share the concerns of bwfc I regarding his career but I’m not writing him off yet!!
He’s certainly got a different approach to most has Keith.
Deffo a couple of times he was out of position / wandering. But for a guy with little first team football he’s doing ok??? I share the concerns of bwfc I regarding his career but I’m not writing him off yet!!
He’s certainly got a different approach to most has Keith.
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Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm
And I certainly prefer and look forward to Hill's comments that the mundane ones from our previous manager who continuously stood by the players despite the poor performances on the field. Talk about positive reinforcement being effective.
Again I say, the players are not school children. They all know that the Manager will call them out if they do not do what he wants. To prevent such a scenario, simply do your job.
Again I say, the players are not school children. They all know that the Manager will call them out if they do not do what he wants. To prevent such a scenario, simply do your job.
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Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm
Christ. I knew they were poor last year but that's ridiculous!Bruce Rioja wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:36 amAt the end of the season, Shaw was voted Manchester United Players' Player of the Year andSir Matt Busby Player of the Year.
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Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm
I’m just gonna say Tim Ream and leave it there...Harry Genshaw wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:11 pmChrist. I knew they were poor last year but that's ridiculous!Bruce Rioja wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:36 amAt the end of the season, Shaw was voted Manchester United Players' Player of the Year andSir Matt Busby Player of the Year.
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Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm
Busby''s been dead nearly 20 years though!Dave Sutton's barnet wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:29 pmI’m just gonna say Tim Ream and leave it there...Harry Genshaw wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:11 pmChrist. I knew they were poor last year but that's ridiculous!Bruce Rioja wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:36 amAt the end of the season, Shaw was voted Manchester United Players' Player of the Year andSir Matt Busby Player of the Year.
"Get your feet off the furniture you Oxbridge tw*t. You're not on a feckin punt now you know"
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Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm
O I geddit....Harry Genshaw wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:48 pmBusby''s been dead nearly 20 years though!Dave Sutton's barnet wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:29 pmI’m just gonna say Tim Ream and leave it there...Harry Genshaw wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:11 pmChrist. I knew they were poor last year but that's ridiculous!Bruce Rioja wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:36 amAt the end of the season, Shaw was voted Manchester United Players' Player of the Year andSir Matt Busby Player of the Year.
(25 years and counting. We’re all hurtling toward the grave ourselves...)
Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm
A classy, versatile and intelligent footballer who could play out from the back, but didn't go flying into daft tackles or beat his chest so wasn't tough or macho enough to get the terrace plaudits. Fulham's player of the year when they got promoted 18 months ago. Bet Keith would give his right arm to get him in our defence now.Dave Sutton's barnet wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:29 pmI’m just gonna say Tim Ream and leave it there...Harry Genshaw wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:11 pmChrist. I knew they were poor last year but that's ridiculous!Bruce Rioja wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:36 amAt the end of the season, Shaw was voted Manchester United Players' Player of the Year andSir Matt Busby Player of the Year.
...
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Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm
He couldn't defend. As was shown up when Fulham were in the premiership.LeverEnd wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:54 pmA classy, versatile and intelligent footballer who could play out from the back, but didn't go flying into daft tackles or beat his chest so wasn't tough or macho enough to get the terrace plaudits. Fulham's player of the year when they got promoted 18 months ago. Bet Keith would give his right arm to get him in our defence now.Dave Sutton's barnet wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:29 pmI’m just gonna say Tim Ream and leave it there...Harry Genshaw wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:11 pmChrist. I knew they were poor last year but that's ridiculous!Bruce Rioja wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:36 amAt the end of the season, Shaw was voted Manchester United Players' Player of the Year andSir Matt Busby Player of the Year.
Of course he'd get in our team now - he just wasn't a championship or premiership quality centre back. Certainly not in a team that needed to be able to defend.
Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm
I'm not saying he was the complete player and that he didn't make defensive errors. Premier quality, no.BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:19 amHe couldn't defend. As was shown up when Fulham were in the premiership.LeverEnd wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:54 pmA classy, versatile and intelligent footballer who could play out from the back, but didn't go flying into daft tackles or beat his chest so wasn't tough or macho enough to get the terrace plaudits. Fulham's player of the year when they got promoted 18 months ago. Bet Keith would give his right arm to get him in our defence now.Dave Sutton's barnet wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:29 pmI’m just gonna say Tim Ream and leave it there...Harry Genshaw wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:11 pmChrist. I knew they were poor last year but that's ridiculous!Bruce Rioja wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:36 amAt the end of the season, Shaw was voted Manchester United Players' Player of the Year andSir Matt Busby Player of the Year.
Of course he'd get in our team now - he just wasn't a championship or premiership quality centre back. Certainly not in a team that needed to be able to defend.
Player of the year three times in the championship with two clubs though, picked by three Bolton managers and and three Fulham managers. Can't have been that bad at defending.
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Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm
While I impatiently await Prufrock's assessment of T:Ream - I know it's gonna be good - I'll just point out that our Murican wasn't helped by the fact that his transfer fee was a substantial slice of what we'd received for Gary Cahill, and dear old Tim was much more substantially less than the player Cahill was. (I still think Arsenal dropped a massive bollock pulling out of the Cahill race: he'd have been the perfect partner for Mertesacker. But that's not our problem, and it's certainly not Gaz's, although his Brasso bill got a lot higher.)
But the decline of teams is often measured in the slumping quality of replacements. Cahill begat Ream, and when Ream went to Fulham in Aug 2015, to quote Iles:
But the decline of teams is often measured in the slumping quality of replacements. Cahill begat Ream, and when Ream went to Fulham in Aug 2015, to quote Iles:
Indeed, he stuck with the back three, and we won one game in the next 22...Lennon now wants to reinvest the money quickly and will sign Italian defender Francesco Pisano in the next 24 hours alongside another attacking player.
Wanderers could certainly use a boost following a demoralising 3-0 defeat at Middlesbrough on Saturday. Lennon admitted he made a mistake in switching to a back three at the Riverside but feels the system could work with different personnel.
“Preston drew 0-0 last week and we went with the same formation having watched how it went for them,” he said. "We didn’t do anywhere near as well. There was a lack of communication and understanding about the positions being played and that comes down to me.
“Can I get it right? Of course. If it can work at Anfield, why can’t it work at other grounds? Maybe Josh Vela wasn’t suited to the right-back position, maybe I should have gone with Lawrie? I’ll certainly ask myself that question."
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Re: Can we give the junior citizens the blues? Man City u23s EFL Trophy (H) 29.10.19 KO 7pm
DSB probably sums it up well we sold Cahill and got Ream. It was a terrible downgrade. Going from a world class centre half who has gone on to win everything in the game possible at club level to - Tim Ream. I guess it clouds things hugely. But one thing is for sure, Ream was a typical Coyle signing. Completely inappropriate for where we were - and completely out of his depth. But he looked good on the ball every so often....LeverEnd wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:48 amI'm not saying he was the complete player and that he didn't make defensive errors. Premier quality, no.BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:19 amHe couldn't defend. As was shown up when Fulham were in the premiership.LeverEnd wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:54 pmA classy, versatile and intelligent footballer who could play out from the back, but didn't go flying into daft tackles or beat his chest so wasn't tough or macho enough to get the terrace plaudits. Fulham's player of the year when they got promoted 18 months ago. Bet Keith would give his right arm to get him in our defence now.Dave Sutton's barnet wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:29 pmI’m just gonna say Tim Ream and leave it there...Harry Genshaw wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:11 pmChrist. I knew they were poor last year but that's ridiculous!Bruce Rioja wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:36 amAt the end of the season, Shaw was voted Manchester United Players' Player of the Year andSir Matt Busby Player of the Year.
Of course he'd get in our team now - he just wasn't a championship or premiership quality centre back. Certainly not in a team that needed to be able to defend.
Player of the year three times in the championship with two clubs though, picked by three Bolton managers and and three Fulham managers. Can't have been that bad at defending.
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