January 2022 Transfer Thread

[Prufrock]

Yep. Big fan of Insano coming close to arguing that we haven't actually scored 30 goals this season.

Sarc and Sheehan (who the two new midfield signings will effectively be replacing) have 7 (and neither has played for months, I think that shows midfielders will get chances in this side). That's a decent but achievable target for two new signings.

Assuming Charles gets two penalties, I don't think it's wild to think he'll get to 5. Particularly when you add in how much better we'll be with an actual midfield. Which funnily enough will also help with the much bigger problems at the other end.

[BWFC_Insane]

Sarce and Doyle's combined non-penalty goals this season is 6 in 33 games, isn't it?

I agree that if the attacking lads we bring in can't improve on that we'll be in serious bother.

Penalties still count. Who in our squad as it stand will score the goals?

[Prufrock]

Sarce and Doyle's combined non-penalty goals this season is 6 in 33 games, isn't it?

I agree that if the attacking lads we bring in can't improve on that we'll be in serious bother.

Penalties still count. Who in our squad as it stand will score the goals?

Of course they count, but I don't think Doyle won any of them. So assuming we get the same number in the second half of the season (can't see why not, and if the overall team is better we might get more) is there anything to suggest Charles (say) would be less likely to score the ones we get than Doyle? Possibly, at a v marginal level. Maybe 1? At best.

I don't think penalties count as goals Doyle "adds". We still get to take them.

[Worthy4England]

Rochdale went down from L1 having scored 61 last season...jsl

[GhostoftheBok]

Rochdale went down from L1 having scored 61 last season...jsl

Plymouth stayed up having scored 53 and conceded 80. Wigan stayed up on 54 and 77.

Funny league.

[GhostoftheBok]

Penalties still count. Who in our squad as it stand will score the goals?

Penalties scored aren't a measure of how much value a player adds to your team. I am grateful to Doyle, but he was deadweight this season as an attacking threat. Loved his attitude, but not crying over the player he is now.

Charles will obviously have to. He's the only attacking player we have signed thus far. I'll let you know what I think as the others arrive.

*edit* I'll actually correct that. I think Xav is basically a new signing. I expect him to score at least a couple.

[BWFC_Insane]

Sarce and Doyle's combined non-penalty goals this season is 6 in 33 games, isn't it?

I agree that if the attacking lads we bring in can't improve on that we'll be in serious bother.

Penalties still count. Who in our squad as it stand will score the goals?

Of course they count, but I don't think Doyle won any of them. So assuming we get the same number in the second half of the season (can't see why not, and if the overall team is better we might get more) is there anything to suggest Charles (say) would be less likely to score the ones we get than Doyle? Possibly, at a v marginal level. Maybe 1? At best.

I don't think penalties count as goals Doyle "adds". We still get to take them.

The problem is even with those we haven’t scored enough goals. Or have conceded too many. Whichever way you want to cut it.

But I’m told we can’t afford players who can defend because Evattball. And now I’m told we can’t sign anyone who can stick it in the net also because Evattball.

I’m beginning to think football has changed and it’s no longer a game about goals but how many nice looking passes your midfield makes. And hey we are winning the league!

[Worthy4England]

Rochdale went down from L1 having scored 61 last season...jsl

Plymouth stayed up having scored 53 and conceded 80. Wigan stayed up on 54 and 77.

Funny league.

Yes, so pointing out that we went up on 59 (Think it was barnetto doesn't count for much you could be Champions with a perfect 138 points on 46...or you could let 46 in and go down on no points.

That we're nearer the bottom than top is because we're losing or drawing too many! And unless we resolve that it's all a bit irrelevant.

I think when folks say we need a lot more goals, it's taking into account we let shitloads in...

[Prufrock]

No-one at all is arguing that though. If we're talking about goals added then we need to replace the 6 open play goals from Doyle and Sarc. Charles plus having a midfield for the whole half season seems pretty likely to be improve that. It's wait and see of course but I think we'll get to 60 if we sign two midfielders to go with Charles.

And on the defending, it depends what you mean by "can defend". The difference is you are addressing them in isolation. The point others are making is that if you add a midfield into the current team you'll concede less because you'll have to defend less. That plus having a right back.

I think everyone would still like a centre back, but the budgets point is that we're unlikely to get one who can do everything you want plus everything that Evatt wants. Not impossible, but tough.

They're going to need to be relatively quick so we can defend on the half way line and leave them 1v1 at times, and they're going to need to be comfortable on the ball (they don't need to be Beckenbauer).

You don't like that, fine, and I think you're right that if we have to defend long periods in our box we'll concede goals. But the overall will be better.

[GhostoftheBok]

I think when folks say we need a lot more goals, it's taking into account we let shitloads in...

That's why I'm primarily bothered about players who make the system work better.

We absolutely need players who can do work in both boxes, but if they don't make the system work too then we're just bailing out a sinking ship.

[Worthy4England]

I thought the "system" was supposed to be so much better than other "systems" so I'm not expecting parity with a shit long ball win one nil system...I'm expecting much better...

[BWFC_Insane]

No-one at all is arguing that though. If we're talking about goals added then we need to replace the 6 open play goals from Doyle and Sarc. Charles plus having a midfield for the whole half season seems pretty likely to be improve that. It's wait and see of course but I think we'll get to 60 if we sign two midfielders to go with Charles.

And on the defending, it depends what you mean by "can defend". The difference is you are addressing them in isolation. The point others are making is that if you add a midfield into the current team you'll concede less because you'll have to defend less. That plus having a right back.

I think everyone would still like a centre back, but the budgets point is that we're unlikely to get one who can do everything you want plus everything that Evatt wants. Not impossible, but tough.

They're going to need to be relatively quick so we can defend on the half way line and leave them 1v1 at times, and they're going to need to be comfortable on the ball (they don't need to be Beckenbauer).

You don't like that, fine, and I think you're right that if we have to defend long periods in our box we'll concede goals. But the overall will be better.

I mean last season we went up second half on the basis of clean sheets and Doyle scoring in the main.

The second half of this season we either need to keep more clean sheets or score more goals. Ideally both.

But I’m not convinced technically nice midfield players who don’t score and don’t help our physicality in the middle do either. Sure improving our midfield helps in all sorts of ways but bottom like is I want a balanced team not one that is good at one thing but can’t do the critical stuff in either box that well. And this isn’t an opinion, it’s a fact, football results are dictated solely by events at either end of the pitch. What happens elsewhere can dictate it but if you are poor at either end it doesn’t matter much.

For every Okocha and Hierro mention a Nolan scoring double figures was as critical.

We need goals in midfield for me as it’s an easy way to improve results. Scoring goals changes games.

We do have bakayoko back and I hope Ameachi adds to us over Kachunga because Elias for me is not likely to solve our goal scoring problems. So there is a support cast that could help. Charles I guess could get 10. And I’d like another striker. And If that happens midfield goals become less critical. But if not…a Nolan or Lampard type would massively help us. Obviously relative to the level.

[Worthy4England]

Kacha goals per minute not too shoddy iirc and I think he has 4 assists?

[BWFC_Insane]

Kacha goals per minute not too shoddy iirc and I think he has 4 assists?

It’s one of the worse ones out of our attacking players..according to the beeb at least. A goal every 389 minutes…

[nicholaldo]

Iles confirms we've submitted a bid for Dempsey.

[Prufrock]

No-one at all is arguing that though. If we're talking about goals added then we need to replace the 6 open play goals from Doyle and Sarc. Charles plus having a midfield for the whole half season seems pretty likely to be improve that. It's wait and see of course but I think we'll get to 60 if we sign two midfielders to go with Charles.

And on the defending, it depends what you mean by "can defend". The difference is you are addressing them in isolation. The point others are making is that if you add a midfield into the current team you'll concede less because you'll have to defend less. That plus having a right back.

I think everyone would still like a centre back, but the budgets point is that we're unlikely to get one who can do everything you want plus everything that Evatt wants. Not impossible, but tough.

They're going to need to be relatively quick so we can defend on the half way line and leave them 1v1 at times, and they're going to need to be comfortable on the ball (they don't need to be Beckenbauer).

You don't like that, fine, and I think you're right that if we have to defend long periods in our box we'll concede goals. But the overall will be better.

I mean last season we went up second half on the basis of clean sheets and Doyle scoring in the main.

The second half of this season we either need to keep more clean sheets or score more goals. Ideally both.

But I’m not convinced technically nice midfield players who don’t score and don’t help our physicality in the middle do either. Sure improving our midfield helps in all sorts of ways but bottom like is I want a balanced team not one that is good at one thing but can’t do the critical stuff in either box that well. And this isn’t an opinion, it’s a fact, football results are dictated solely by events at either end of the pitch. What happens elsewhere can dictate it but if you are poor at either end it doesn’t matter much.

For every Okocha and Hierro mention a Nolan scoring double figures was as critical.

We need goals in midfield for me as it’s an easy way to improve results. Scoring goals changes games.

We do have bakayoko back and I hope Ameachi adds to us over Kachunga because Elias for me is not likely to solve our goal scoring problems. So there is a support cast that could help. Charles I guess could get 10. And I’d like another striker. And If that happens midfield goals become less critical. But if not…a Nolan or Lampard type would massively help us. Obviously relative to the level.

Couple of questions:

What of the above do you think anyone is disagreeing with? Other than Kachunga, I broad brush agree with all of that.

You have mentioned "need" a few times. What do you mean by that? In one sense we don't *need* to change. Match the first half of the season and we'll stay up. Obviously I think we'd all be at least mildly disappointed with that.

So when you say need do you mean a) to get to where you'd consider acceptable for the season (do you remember what you said before we started) b) to go up or c) something else?

On goals from midfield, I think the way we play lends itself. Sarc career average is about 1 in 6 v 1 in 4 and a bit for us. Sheehan 1 in 11 v 1 in 4 (though small sample size and includes a free kick and a pen), Lee 1 in 13 v 1 in 8 (and 1 in 6 this season). I agree we need goals from midfield but I think we'll get them playing this way. I think it's a big part of the plan and not as simple as looking just at what players have done before they get here in different styles (though it's obvs not a bad baseline).

[GhostoftheBok]

I thought the "system" was supposed to be so much better than other "systems" so I'm not expecting parity with a shit long ball win one nil system...I'm expecting much better...

If Evatt has a settled back four and *any* midfield and we're still crap I'll also start to complain. Likewise if he can't sort his squad out in his first 4 windows.

Football systems aren't magic. If we are winning games I'll be happy.

[Worthy4England]

Kacha goals per minute not too shoddy iirc and I think he has 4 assists?

It’s one of the worse ones out of our attacking players..according to the beeb at least. A goal every 389 minutes…

Now if we let him take pengies, I'm sure we could get it up to Eoin's 303 fairly easy and the assists help too...

[sonicthewhite]

Well if we get Morley AND Dempsey I can't see where that would leave Lee except as a 1st reserve. But if our midfield improves then so be it.

[Prufrock]

Well if we get Morley AND Dempsey I can't see where that would leave Lee except as a 1st reserve. But if our midfield improves then so be it.

Absolutely. That's where he started the season but played his way in. Competition for places is good, the last few months have taught us that