The Politics Thread

[nicholaldo]

Nadine Dories. Blimey O'Reilly.

[BWFC_Insane]

What's Hoyle done? (Or not done?)

He does absolutely nothing to hold ministers to account and hides behind his role. But the fact is that when the executive are rotten the speaker could step up and stop giving them an easy ride. Bercow did it. Hoyle seems happy to keep his role and let Johnson lie without consequence.

Shows no backbone. His role is fine in normality. This is not normality.

He's challenged Johnson a number of times when lies have been shown (or economies of truth as we can't use the l-word), but it's not his job to go and ferret out when Johnson may or may not have lied other than within House procedures. And I'm not sure I'd want a speaker to hold ministers to account, other than on matters of procedure...

You can't just boost the role of the Speaker, coz you don't like the Government.

We have a system of democratic checks and balances based on the executive behaving with integrity and honesty. When the executive behaves like this we need individuals to step up. I don’t think you can just fall back on process in times like this. This is extreme.

[nicholaldo]

I'm not sure it's particularly extreme. I have no regard for Johnson or his loathsome government, but is this really worse than the "dodgy dossier", cash for honours, etc.?

Perhaps it's the sheer number of scandals that's unprecedented.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm not sure it's particularly extreme. I have no regard for Johnson or his loathsome government, but is this really worse than the "dodgy dossier", cash for honours, etc.?

Perhaps it's the sheer number of scandals that's unprecedented.

I mean here we have a PM repeatedly break the rules he himself set. Lie about it repeatedly, including in Parliament and to the public. Then conduct a campaign of gaslighting and misdirection to try and remain in office.

And that’s on the back of a concerted effort to strip democracy away.

That’s before we get onto the covid procurement scandal.

Or Patterson.

Or Hancock.

It’s now likely to end in criminal charges.

I can’t even begin to process how bad it is. But each to their own.

[nicholaldo]

I'm not sure it's particularly extreme. I have no regard for Johnson or his loathsome government, but is this really worse than the "dodgy dossier", cash for honours, etc.?

Perhaps it's the sheer number of scandals that's unprecedented.

I mean here we have a PM repeatedly break the rules he himself set. Lie about it repeatedly, including in Parliament and to the public. Then conduct a campaign of gaslighting and misdirection to try and remain in office.

And that’s on the back of a concerted effort to strip democracy away.

That’s before we get onto the covid procurement scandal.

Or Patterson.

Or Hancock.

It’s now likely to end in criminal charges.

I can’t even begin to process how bad it is. But each to their own.

Right, so it's the number of scandals then.

Johnson is a disgraceful, morally bankrupt person unfit for office but I don't think any individual scandal is as extreme as the shenanigans in the lead up to the Iraq war.

[Hoboh]

I see tipsy has now tested positive for Covid, seems a touch convenient perhaps, maybe distancing herself from a sh*t show tour of the Ukraine with bozo?

[BWFC_Insane]

So apparently shouting a lie dreamt up by right wing extremist groups in Parliament us ‘in order’ according to the speaker but ‘he’s not very happy with it’.

FFS Hoyle you really are a disgrace. Grow a backbone.

[Hoboh]

So apparently shouting a lie dreamt up by right wing extremist groups in Parliament us ‘in order’ according to the speaker but ‘he’s not very happy with it’.

FFS Hoyle you really are a disgrace. Grow a backbone.

It was below the belt and should have been called out to be fair but neither of them came out with any credit. Watching Starmer perform is like watching paint dry, Johnson just lies or avoids things he needs to address or looks even stupider than he comes across as.

[BWFC_Insane]

So apparently shouting a lie dreamt up by right wing extremist groups in Parliament us ‘in order’ according to the speaker but ‘he’s not very happy with it’.

FFS Hoyle you really are a disgrace. Grow a backbone.

It was below the belt and should have been called out to be fair but neither of them came out with any credit. Watching Starmer perform is like watching paint dry, Johnson just lies or avoids things he needs to address or looks even stupider than he comes across as.

Starmer is receiving almost universal praise for what he said yesterday. Johnson spouted a lie that originates from right wing extremist organisations on social media.

You literally cannot compare.

Johnson laughed as a debate about his behaviour whilst families couldn’t sit with dying relatives.

Why anyone would care about performance over integrity is beyond me.

[Worthy4England]

Why anyone would care about performance over integrity is beyond me.

Have you been looking at our electorate, recently?

[BWFC_Insane]

Why anyone would care about performance over integrity is beyond me.

Have you been looking at our electorate, recently?

Well yes. But Starmer enjoys best PM leads over Johnson that haven’t been seen by a LOTO since Blair in 1997….

So whilst there are a lot of weird people out there….I have to think that based on all the evidence it’s finally sinking in…..

And in any case the point was how on earth in a democracy can a blow be chucked out of Parliament for telling the truth and calling the PM a liar. But the PM can use a known lie dreamt up by extreme right wing groups without sanction?

It’s beyond appalling.

[Worthy4England]

Why anyone would care about performance over integrity is beyond me.

Have you been looking at our electorate, recently?

Well yes. But Starmer enjoys best PM leads over Johnson that haven’t been seen by a LOTO since Blair in 1997….

So whilst there are a lot of weird people out there….I have to think that based on all the evidence it’s finally sinking in…..

And in any case the point was how on earth in a democracy can a blow be chucked out of Parliament for telling the truth and calling the PM a liar. But the PM can use a known lie dreamt up by extreme right wing groups without sanction?

It’s beyond appalling.

This is a bit like being top of the League in December....still a lot of the season left...

On the last point - Not that I agree with Johnson - but did Kier Starmer prosecute Jimmy Savile? Very difficult to say that's a lie, I mean the fact that he wasn't actually involved one way or the other is important, but it's not a lie...

[Prufrock]

And Blackford is an absolute bell. Knew exactly what he was doing, knew he'd have to be kicked out for it, knew the rules. Calculated grandstanding.

[nicholaldo]

Why anyone would care about performance over integrity is beyond me.

Have you been looking at our electorate, recently?

Well yes. But Starmer enjoys best PM leads over Johnson that haven’t been seen by a LOTO since Blair in 1997….

So whilst there are a lot of weird people out there….I have to think that based on all the evidence it’s finally sinking in…..

And in any case the point was how on earth in a democracy can a blow be chucked out of Parliament for telling the truth and calling the PM a liar. But the PM can use a known lie dreamt up by extreme right wing groups without sanction?

It’s beyond appalling.

This is a bit like being top of the League in December....still a lot of the season left...

On the last point - Not that I agree with Johnson - but did Kier Starmer prosecute Jimmy Savile? Very difficult to say that's a lie, I mean the fact that he wasn't actually involved one way or the other is important, but it's not a lie...

He used the words "failing to prosecute", which it could be argued incorrectly implies it was in Starmer's gift to do so.

But regardless, MPs are forbidden from accusing other MPs of lying during a parliamentary debate. Any accusation of dishonesty has to be dealt with by formal motion. The reason for that is to avoid debates being derailed by collateral issues.

Hoyle is far from a disgrace, he just understands parliamentary procedure.

[Worthy4England]

Oh course it could Nicholado (argued implication) - so three days later maybe a retraction that no bugger would notice? But I'm not sure it's the speakers job to immediately judge "lies" - because there are so many things said that are in grey areas in between lies and truth...

[Prufrock]

Exactly. It isn't. Nor should it be, IMO. But the rules would need to be changed for it to be.

[Hoboh]

Can you just not tell Carrie dressed bozo this morning!

He has to go but don't go counting your chickens over any Starmer poll leads Bwfci most I know think he's a wet rag who will cave into the hard left at the first opportunity and they ain't Tories either.

[nicholaldo]

Oh course it could Nicholado (argued implication) - so three days later maybe a retraction that no bugger would notice? But I'm not sure it's the speakers job to immediately judge "lies" - because there are so many things said that are in grey areas in between lies and truth...

Yes, I agree. I have no problem with Hoyle's actions.

[TANGODANCER]

That Jimmy Saville, vile though he was, should be dragged into any discussion involving today's government is pathetic. What next, Christine Keeler?

[BWFC_Insane]

Can you just not tell Carrie dressed bozo this morning!

He has to go but don't go counting your chickens over any Starmer poll leads Bwfci most I know think he's a wet rag who will cave into the hard left at the first opportunity and they ain't Tories either.

The people who seem to dislike him the most seem to be the hard left. Like I say he’s not exactly my choice. But he’s best we’ve got right now. He’s chucked out the hard left, grabbed control of the nec and reformed candidate selection. He’s basically despised by the Corbyn lot. Which make me like him a little more than perhaps he deserves.