Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

^^The issue with Nlundulu is not that it was a poor transfer. It’s the hubris of Evatt thinking that we can develop him into the next ‘Ivan Toney’ and that as a league one club we can afford to take such risks with limited resources and the idea we don’t need to pour every thing we have into getting out of the league.

All this development nonsense only makes sense if you can afford it on top of being good enough to achieve your first team aims.

Is it nonsense? As a business owner I can't just concentrate on now. No point making a million this year if I go bust next year. You have to balance and maximise what you have and that means investing and accepting not every year is going to amazeballs profit. My business has taken a huge hit profits wise the last couple of years, but we've been investing everything back in and in our staff. Yes, there are short term imperatives, but I don't think everyone agrees on what they are. Sometimes you have to hold your hands up and admit you got it wrong, then have a plan for fixing it. The important thing is both admitting it and having a workable plan to fix it.

Has Evatt held his hands up and do you believe he believes he fecked it up? What we don't know is is there a workable plan...

Development is fine but that’s teens in an academy or reserve side. Not spending large sums for us for a 24 year old never has been using up a first team slot and wage. We all knew it was a mistake but Evatts hubris meant he thought he could turn him into Ivan Toney. Ridiculous.

I wasn't implying Dan was a good investment, just that we should be investing in the future as well as today. You can argue about academies and reserves, but if done right investing in someone older than academy age isn't the issue. I think we're all mostly agreed, and I emphasise mostly, that spending on a fee and wages for Dan wasn't the greatest piece of investment. Despite some improvement it still doesn't look like good business and it is now a fairly large stick that Evatt will rightly be whacked with.

[Worthy4England]

My sense of entitlement isn't about promotion. You have to earn that. I didn't think it was entirely unreasonable to finish third. That's what I hazarded pre-season and again in Jan, when some were getting a bit giddy. He had enough through the door to be pretty competitive. In fact, the team shows up against Wigan, Blackpool and the like, it's a home run.

I do feel pretty entitled to expect them to turn up 46 games out of 46 and play-offs for whatever k per week they're on. So if it's perjorative (and clearly it is). I'll wear the badge with honour.

[GhostoftheBok]

I do feel pretty entitled to expect them to turn up 46 games out of 46 and play-offs for whatever k per week they're on. So if it's perjorative (and clearly it is). I'll wear the badge with honour.

I've been watching football a while now and I've never seen a Bolton team show up every game in a season.

We've not shown up in too many this season, but if you want 46 on-it performances it's not happening in this league...or, I'd suggest, in any other very often.

[Worthy4England]

I do feel pretty entitled to expect them to turn up 46 games out of 46 and play-offs for whatever k per week they're on. So if it's perjorative (and clearly it is). I'll wear the badge with honour.

I've been watching football a while now and I've never seen a Bolton team show up every game in a season.

We've not shown up in too many this season, but if you want 46 on-it performances it's not happening in this league...or, I'd suggest, in any other very often.

Me neither. But I expect that they should.

[GhostoftheBok]

Me neither. But I expect that they should.

Pisses us all off when they don't, yeah.

Can't sensibly suggest how to fix the behind the scenes stuff, but on the pitch we need more energy, belief and commitment. That much is certain.

More so, because Paris had that and we've therefore lost one.

We need lads who love to have the ball and will take the responsibility of winning a game.

Collins certainly has that. He wants the pressure. More, please.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

If we looked at another team coming out of League Two with our same finances we'd never have them down as inevitably destined for the top two. Not in a month of sundays.

Everyone would agree it'd take stellar work to get them into the hunt for the autos.

This is one of the things that makes this coming season difficult. Wrexham were already outspending most third-tier teams last season and are clearly going to throw more Hollywood money at it. If they didn't exist, we'd be talking about how much money Stockport have spent, dating back to when they were in non-league and effectively bought out our captain from two tiers above after his unfortunate episode over the instant coffees (the vending machine vendetta?).

Now, if Mansfield take the division by storm, we'll all have to buy hats just to take them off. The other two, maybe not so much. And when you add in that, if it is indeed true that Derby and Pompey had the two highest wage bills and finished in the two highest positions, it's looking worryingly like the long-time Premier League truism that wage bills predict finishing positions might be increasingly happening down the leagues. But at least that doesn't always happen - as Chelsea and especially Manyoo hilariously prove.

[BWFC_Insane]

It’s the summer so we get the finances reeled out as to why little old Bolton simply have to be happy with league one football.

We made a loss of £5.6M on the second highest turnover in the league.

I think there are a lot of better managers than Evatt who would love that sort of backing.

Unless the suggestion is it’s all being put into the screens and pitch we didn’t replace….

[Bertie Wooster]

I think that we need some positive / uplifting news ASAP, as being out & about over the BH weekend the fans are completely deflated & flat - no one I spoke to is positive about next season.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think that we need some positive / uplifting news ASAP, as being out & about over the BH weekend the fans are completely deflated & flat - no one I spoke to is positive about next season.

Nobody will be excited by next season until we are looking set to win the league. Even then there will be fear we bottle it again. I think next season will be particularly grim even by our recent history of grimness.

I doubt come August there will be much if any enthusiasm.

[officer_dibble]

I’d need the signings of the champ man regens of Bergson and Karl Henry to get anywhere near excited. Can see transition next year…

[BWFC_Insane]

I’d need the signings of the champ man regens of Bergson and Karl Henry to get anywhere near excited. Can see transition next year…

Well exactly. Those are the sorts we need.

I’m just convinced that a better manager would add a couple like that and get much more consistency out of what we’ve got.

A better manager of course is easy to say it’s not as easy to deliver.

But for Evatt to make a success of it relies on him accepting he was wrong and changing a lot of things. I’ve seen nothing in his character yet to suggest he’s capable of that.

[dave the minion]

I think that we need some positive / uplifting news ASAP, as being out & about over the BH weekend the fans are completely deflated & flat - no one I spoke to is positive about next season.

Nobody will be excited by next season until we are looking set to win the league. Even then there will be fear we bottle it again. I think next season will be particularly grim even by our recent history of grimness.

I doubt come August there will be much if any enthusiasm.

Jesus F*cking Wept.
Alright, we know you don't like Evatt. Or Dan. Or Santos. Or Sheehan. Or most of the rest of the squad.
But please give it a rest. Try being positive will you. Just once maybe, and just a little tiny bit positive. You never know, you might like it.....
Cant be much fun being so angry and down all the time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no more right than you are by trying to be so positive, but at least whilst I'm being wrong I'm not dragging myself and other readers constantly down....

[Bertie Wooster]

Dave, there is nothing wrong with trying to stay positive - its actually quite admirable. At the same time just because people want a change it doesn't mean that they are angry.

As I said earlier there is very little positivity in the fan base around town at the moment after the play off debacle - that's not speculation that's factual based on who I spoke to over the w/end (all staunch long time Bolton fans), even several Evatt in fans I've spoken to are not at all positive about next season, their Evatt stay rationale is more about being afraid of who may replace him not being any better (be careful for what you wish for etc.).

I'm also not sure what there is to be positive about, hence my post about needing some positive / uplifting news to lift spirits and give the fans a reason to be more positive about next season & yes its only 9 days since Wembley and everyone is probably on holiday but the fans do need something quite soon, otherwise the doom & gloom amongst at least 50% of the fan base will get worse.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think that we need some positive / uplifting news ASAP, as being out & about over the BH weekend the fans are completely deflated & flat - no one I spoke to is positive about next season.

Nobody will be excited by next season until we are looking set to win the league. Even then there will be fear we bottle it again. I think next season will be particularly grim even by our recent history of grimness.

I doubt come August there will be much if any enthusiasm.

Jesus F*cking Wept.
Alright, we know you don't like Evatt. Or Dan. Or Santos. Or Sheehan. Or most of the rest of the squad.
But please give it a rest. Try being positive will you. Just once maybe, and just a little tiny bit positive. You never know, you might like it.....
Cant be much fun being so angry and down all the time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no more right than you are by trying to be so positive, but at least whilst I'm being wrong I'm not dragging myself and other readers constantly down....

I’m not sure what a fake positivity would offer us.

I can’t be positive if I don’t believe and I’m sorry I don’t.

If I see the change I think is required I will no doubt be excited again.

[GhostoftheBok]

This is one of the things that makes this coming season difficult. Wrexham were already outspending most third-tier teams last season and are clearly going to throw more Hollywood money at it. If they didn't exist, we'd be talking about how much money Stockport have spent, dating back to when they were in non-league and effectively bought out our captain from two tiers above after his unfortunate episode over the instant coffees (the vending machine vendetta?).

Now, if Mansfield take the division by storm, we'll all have to buy hats just to take them off. The other two, maybe not so much. And when you add in that, if it is indeed true that Derby and Pompey had the two highest wage bills and finished in the two highest positions, it's looking worryingly like the long-time Premier League truism that wage bills predict finishing positions might be increasingly happening down the leagues. But at least that doesn't always happen - as Chelsea and especially Manyoo hilariously prove.

Yup.

We are the best placed side in this division now. We finished 3rd last season and we have two proper goal scorers, but we've seen at Wembley it doesn't matter if we don't show up (which we too often don't) and other teams can spend to go past us.

We can choose to rebuild or we can try and add.

There are players out there who can drag us out of this division. The job now is to find them. Once preseason hits the job is to get them galvanised to smash into the division.

We can all stick our oars in on here and that's why we're on the forum, but that's the reality of it. Jobs need doing.

If we can find consistency then any team that finishes above us will have done bloody well. If we can't find that consistency next season then this project is over. We'll cash in on our best players and have to live a very different life in terms of finances.

If anyone wants some of those big players now they'll have to pay through the nose, as they're protected by longer deals - which in itself is excellent work from Evatt and Markham.

[irie Cee Bee]

I think that we need some positive / uplifting news ASAP, as being out & about over the BH weekend the fans are completely deflated & flat - no one I spoke to is positive about next season.

Nobody will be excited by next season until we are looking set to win the league. Even then there will be fear we bottle it again. I think next season will be particularly grim even by our recent history of grimness.

I doubt come August there will be much if any enthusiasm.

Jesus F*cking Wept.
Alright, we know you don't like Evatt. Or Dan. Or Santos. Or Sheehan. Or most of the rest of the squad.
But please give it a rest. Try being positive will you. Just once maybe, and just a little tiny bit positive. You never know, you might like it.....
Cant be much fun being so angry and down all the time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no more right than you are by trying to be so positive, but at least whilst I'm being wrong I'm not dragging myself and other readers constantly down....

I’m not sure what a fake positivity would offer us.

I can’t be positive if I don’t believe and I’m sorry I don’t.

If I see the change I think is required I will no doubt be excited again.

Looking forward to hearing the positive Dave.. need a dose of it myself.

[TANGODANCER]

I'll go positive with you I.C.B. I can't be down for long about anything; I'm a believer...COME ON YOU WHITES...

[GhostoftheBok]

There's loads to be positive about. It's just hard to be so after such a disappointing finish last term.

We have a team with loads of goals in it, protected by good contracts and with no players aging out.

We've freed up wages and have zero fat.

Plenty of managers will envy Evatt's position this summer. Obviously some on here (and generally) just don't trust Evatt to make the most of the position he's in, but you'd have to be daft not to recognise it as a strong starting position for a League One side.

If we choose to let players go we will be able to reinvest, because it'll involved fees. If teams force us to sell players we'd rather keep then it'll mean significant cash coming in.

It's a brilliant position for a football department to be in. This is the best work on that side of things I've seen as a Bolton fan.

It's only totally doom and gloom if that's your agenda. It's also not all rosy, clearly; but it never will be when we're starting a season in League One. From now on any season we start in League One will follow on from a disappointment.

[BWFC_Insane]

There's loads to be positive about. It's just hard to be so after such a disappointing finish last term.

We have a team with loads of goals in it, protected by good contracts and with no players aging out.

We've freed up wages and have zero fat.

Plenty of managers will envy Evatt's position this summer. Obviously some on here (and generally) just don't trust Evatt to make the most of the position he's in, but you'd have to be daft not to recognise it as a strong starting position for a League One side.

If we choose to let players go we will be able to reinvest, because it'll involved fees. If teams force us to sell players we'd rather keep then it'll mean significant cash coming in.

It's a brilliant position for a football department to be in. This is the best work on that side of things I've seen as a Bolton fan.

It's only totally doom and gloom if that's your agenda. It's also not all rosy, clearly; but it never will be when we're starting a season in League One. From now on any season we start in League One will follow on from a disappointment.

I don’t think it’s that strong as it stands. A group of players who have themselves said they have buckled in the big games. A manager who says he didn’t see it coming nor understand why.

Contractually it’s good to have players signed up but it’s hen how much of a millstone is that for enacting the changes needed to introduce a more robust mental and physical approach into this squad?

It’s quite clear there will be teams down here very suited to grinding out results week after week with the likes of Duff, Evans, Parky in this league and whilst not all will succeed you’d expect some to do so.

Right now I can see the Neal prophecy being fulfilled and us being nowhere near promotion. The mental impact of last season means I think a considerable shake up is needed. Going into next season with a similar squad and same manager I just don’t see anything good happening.

[Worthy4England]

I'm not in the totally doom and gloom club. As it stands, I think we'll have a decent showing and be there of there abouts.

Last season was a disappointing end, like the one prior. 12 months ago, he got benefit of doubt, that go. This time, like a few "borderlines" have said, probably a lot nearer to "just in" or "just out." I'm just out, but not in full Megson.

Given there are apparently Agenda's. I'll formulate mine.

Team didn't turn out. Fine with a player having off days. We have subs.
Whilst on that topic, there are sometimes better times to use them than minute 70. This is done by using your eyes rather than reading a book.
Slow football. Please make it look quick.
The "usual" mitigations. Two teams, injuries, fans were moaning so the fluffies crumbled. Yup. Pretty much every team encountered all of those. Big picture, three overcame them enough to go up.
Make it look like we understand there's attack AND defence. Being poor at either loses you games.
It's a tough sell to tell us this project is the best way, then unload said excuses as to why it wasn't. Again.
Don't lose to Salford. Ever.
Beat Wigan.
Improve on play-off tally where we've won 1 out of 5. Better still, avoid it.


Not quite sure what IE says when he breaks his silence. For me it's about what Ghost said. Learning and make it right this go (hopefully without sounding like a dick) - if you have the best team in the League, we expect you to win it.