Should I(E) stay or should I(E) go?

[GhostoftheBok]

Well, it was a bit selective!

I agree, we don't necessarily need a world class DM. But last year's defensive unit to me, were all better defensively - probably including Traff.

Defensively:

Traff > Baxter
Bradley > JDC
Iredale > Williams
MJ > Sheehan
And if Thommo drops to 6, then one more for good measure.
Santos = Santos
GT > Toal as LCB
GJ < Toal as RCB

So if JDC, Williams, Sheehan, Baxter, Santos are constants, the same Maghoma isn't likely to solve it. It will need something else, IMO. Coz MJ wasn't the only difference and he ain't Roy Keane.

I'm not sure Traf was better than Baxter for us, but he certainly will be generally. Baxter has had a harder time of it, due to us being less solid defensively. I'd be confident he can keep clean sheets if we become more solid. We have certainly covered the loss of Traf better than the loss of Bradley.

Generally, I agree. I don't think Evatt's reaction to this season will be as drastic as it was when we started going for 1-0s the prior season. I also don't think we will sit a midfielder in front of a 3-man defence. We simply can't commit that additional body to a pure holding role.

The solution, to me, lies in where attacks come from and how well we can delay them to buy time to reorganise - that means losing the ball wide and not centrally. That means better attacking options out wide, or a switch in how the forwards work.

For me that's worth 10 goals a season from containing counters and conceding fewer set pieces.

It's up to the boss, though. I don't care if we go back to being more solid and trust lads like Collins to win us games 1-0, or we find other solutions. This group can be part of a good defensive side, though. They've already done it. So we need the missing bits to fit the new solution - whatever that may be.

[irie Cee Bee]

I would like us to get some pace in the side, get better ball handlers in such as Dapo / maghoma... we also need a captain change. Of the players we have Dempsey or Thomason fit the bill. I would love if we can get that strong mentality from a cambatative player outside the current squad that Evatt can find to be captain.

Pace will allow us to counter attack quickly, especially from the wing, a couple ball handlers will allow us to give them the ball without fear of them panicking when someone comes to tackle at close quarters in midfield, and a captain from outside a wounded squad will bring a new mentality that the squad currently does not have.

Give me that and I would feel better ... a fit Toal, Santos, Johnson trio with Baxter behind does sound like a very strong defensive unit in L1.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Until then I reserve the right to be a bit miserable some days

Yup. You have that right.

Something is rotten in the state of Lostock, but not everything.

I also have midges and customers to battle on a daily basis

[GhostoftheBok]

I would love if we can get that strong mentality from a cambatative player outside the current squad that Evatt can find to be captain.

It's no longer normal for a manager to force a captain on a team and that would likely cause issues in itself.

Players and staff tend to choose their leaders these days and managers then select their reps from that group.

Some places have club captains and different captains on the pitch.

The players have continually been supportive of Rico as captain and said he's hugely important to the spirit of the group. The manager supports him in that role.

This group doesn't go to war, which is a problem. Part of fixing that may be changing who has the title of "captain", but it may just be about changing personalities in the group and leaving the armband where it is.

None of us are in there and so that's one topic none of us can really say "I know how to fix that." Whatever opinions we may have. Without seeing the dynamics at play every day, we can't know.

We do need lads who will die on the pitch, though. Too often this lot walk off without having given everything for a win. That has to change.

[Worthy4England]

Well, it was a bit selective!

I agree, we don't necessarily need a world class DM. But last year's defensive unit to me, were all better defensively - probably including Traff.

Defensively:

Traff > Baxter
Bradley > JDC
Iredale > Williams
MJ > Sheehan
And if Thommo drops to 6, then one more for good measure.
Santos = Santos
GT > Toal as LCB
GJ < Toal as RCB

So if JDC, Williams, Sheehan, Baxter, Santos are constants, the same Maghoma isn't likely to solve it. It will need something else, IMO. Coz MJ wasn't the only difference and he ain't Roy Keane.

I'm not sure Traf was better than Baxter for us, but he certainly will be generally. Baxter has had a harder time of it, due to us being less solid defensively. I'd be confident he can keep clean sheets if we become more solid. We have certainly covered the loss of Traf better than the loss of Bradley.

Generally, I agree. I don't think Evatt's reaction to this season will be as drastic as it was when we started going for 1-0s the prior season. I also don't think we will sit a midfielder in front of a 3-man defence. We simply can't commit that additional body to a pure holding role.

The solution, to me, lies in where attacks come from and how well we can delay them to buy time to reorganise - that means losing the ball wide and not centrally. That means better attacking options out wide, or a switch in how the forwards work.

For me that's worth 10 goals a season from containing counters and conceding fewer set pieces.

It's up to the boss, though. I don't care if we go back to being more solid and trust lads like Collins to win us games 1-0, or we find other solutions. This group can be part of a good defensive side, though. They've already done it. So we need the missing bits to fit the new solution - whatever that may be.

Traff v Baxter, I had as pretty marginal to be fair. Think Traff is quicker off his line so gave us a bit more when defence had all gone walkabout albeit it sometimes quite scarily..

It's more nuanced, for me than comparing "If they score 3, we'll score 4" vs "They're getting 0 so we only need 1." That's just internet shittery. But I think we lost incrementally defensive solidity in too many areas v season prior.

As you say, most times we're ok to very decent. So it's more situational than baby being ejected with bathwater.

[GhostoftheBok]

As you say, most times we're ok to very decent. So it's more situational than baby being ejected with bathwater.

Which is where Evatt needs to pick a solution and implement it well.

When we were solid we didn't score enough. We're scoring enough now, but we're not solid.

This group can do either, with the right additions. The question is can it do both? If it can we can go up.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Idea-floating rather than soapboxing, but is Tomo the "answer within the ranks" to the need for a tougher 6?

I'm talking here about an 'extra' 6 to sit alongside Sheehan, although equally he could be a straight swap to stiffen the midfield without changing formation.

I don't think many of us doubt that Tomo has the guts we seem to want, and his yellow card count suggests he loves a tackle. That is of course a problem in itself but with a little study and savvy I think he could have a cleaner season. He's certainly key to learn - and that's part of the reason he's become a 'free 8' - but in certain games, and maybe within certain game situations, we may function better with him having a less roving role and staying closer to home.

Of course, that means we have fewer people going forward.... which means our WBs might have to be better... which I think most of us suspect anyway.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Too often this lot walk off without having given everything for a win. That has to change.

Well, they run off at half-time... which, if they've hidden previously, looks like running away...

As you say, you can have captains all over the pitch. The armband-wearer should set an example but increasingly Tomo has been doing the team gee-ups. Said it before but Todd's title-winning team had half a dozen blokes who could happily do the coin-toss/pennant swap and then set about destroying the guy they'd just shook hands with.

[Bertie Wooster]

This group doesn't go to war, which is a problem. Part of fixing that may be changing who has the title of "captain", but it may just be about changing personalities in the group and leaving the armband where it is.

None of us are in there and so that's one topic none of us can really say "I know how to fix that." Whatever opinions we may have. Without seeing the dynamics at play every day, we can't know.

We do need lads who will die on the pitch, though. Too often this lot walk off without having given everything for a win. That has to change.

Very good points made, totally agree.

[GhostoftheBok]

Well, they run off at half-time... which, if they've hidden previously, looks like running away...

As you say, you can have captains all over the pitch. The armband-wearer should set an example but increasingly Tomo has been doing the team gee-ups. Said it before but Todd's title-winning team had half a dozen blokes who could happily do the coin-toss/pennant swap and then set about destroying the guy they'd just shook hands with.

This lot aren't "soft."

Sheehan gets stuck in against lads twice his size. He's come back from three bad injuries through excruciating pain and improved himself as a player.

There's a switch that doesn't go on at times, though, in the group. They don't need to become different people for that switch to go on, because sometimes it does. Luton would be a good example, where they really did go into them. Sheehan standing over Morris offering the rearrange his face is an imagine stuck in my mind. Rico absolutely flooring forward after forward before his injury. Thommo taking on all comers. Toal would come out swinging if his mate was cornered.

They will go to war, if Evatt can find the right mix of personalities and the right atmosphere to get them there. He has focused on calm, technical play...we have that now, for the most part. We need that edge when things get there.

We need more physicality, absolutely. We need to find that switch and that intensity.

Some games don't suit certain players as much as others. Options are always needed.

Clock's ticking and all that.

[GhostoftheBok]

In related news, Big John is laying into Wolves fans over on Twitter at the minute

[Worthy4England]

Idea-floating rather than soapboxing, but is Tomo the "answer within the ranks" to the need for a tougher 6?

I'm talking here about an 'extra' 6 to sit alongside Sheehan, although equally he could be a straight swap to stiffen the midfield without changing formation.

I don't think many of us doubt that Tomo has the guts we seem to want, and his yellow card count suggests he loves a tackle. That is of course a problem in itself but with a little study and savvy I think he could have a cleaner season. He's certainly key to learn - and that's part of the reason he's become a 'free 8' - but in certain games, and maybe within certain game situations, we may function better with him having a less roving role and staying closer to home.

Of course, that means we have fewer people going forward.... which means our WBs might have to be better... which I think most of us suspect anyway.

I've given that some thought too. My reservation about it, is when talking about "card counts" one of the most significant complaints about a Henry-alike was the card count, which GT managed to equal Karl's "best" year for...

There could be a chunk of set pieces if we're not a bit careful.

[BWFC_Insane]

I go back to the last time we won a league. We had outstanding players. But a midfield of Frandsen, Sellars, Sheridan and Pollock. With Thommo and Johansen in the mix too.

They could all play but they also wouldn’t lose any single physical scrap the division offered.

I like Thomason a lot but he is more a greater and worker. He is the most combative we’ve got. But he’s one. And he clearly ran out of legs being asked to do it all himself. We need three midfield players that ilk imo. Morley is more robust but I don’t think he’s mobile enough. Dempsey a good grafter but I feel he’s neither one thing nor another.

[Armchair Wanderer]

We need more physicality, absolutely. We need to find that switch and that intensity.

I don't post much but I'm fairly sure I posted about needing physicality last season. I forget the game, maybe it was the playoffs, and maybe I thought it but didn't post it.

I've not voted in the poll but for me it's pretty damning if 12 months later other more knowledgeable people than me are saying similar things.

My personal thoughts are that managers will all be comfortable. Losing your job if you are comfortable is different to if you're living week to week. I'll be more on the side of spinning the wheel than other people, but if said manager is capable of change, all the better. Too many managers don't/won't change or adapt.

[The_Gun]

I have to say that I’ve switched into Euros mode, and am not particularly inclined to read back through the 21 pages of this thread, but I think it’s fair to say that Evatt will now be staying.

[irie Cee Bee]

We are a "nice" team. Aside from Toal,Thommo and maybe Iredale, who else jumps in front of the ref when he makes a controvertial call against us? I see other teams with players who run half the length if the pitch to get in front of the ref, calling for cards when a 50/50 tacle is made, wearing down the ref to eventually card the next good tackle from Thommo. We are too nice.

[GhostoftheBok]

I don't post much but I'm fairly sure I posted about needing physicality last season. I forget the game, maybe it was the playoffs, and maybe I thought it but didn't post it.

You probably did. At various times people have noted the need to fix the flanks, the need for physicality, the need for pace off the bench, the need for experience, the need for x, y and z...

We've fixed some things and not others.

Insane had us down as needing a forward who could make goals from nothing. We've signed Collins, who I'd wanted for about 3 years, to offer us that. We've got Vic as a forward who can win physical battles.

We won't get everything we need this summer - we never will. We need to get enough to go up. What Evatt and Markham can find in the market will determine a lot.

We nearly did enough this season. This is probably our last chance to actually do enough.

Physicality doesn't necessarily mean a 6'2" lad in the middle, though I want Wiredu who'd represent another "Where have we been on this one?" signing ala Collins. It could just be the ability to cover the ground to deal with the counters that have hammered us this season.

If we can't add that running/battling through the middle then we have got to fix the flanks. We probably can't fail to do both and still have a shot at the autos. We need some way of reducing the number of overloads vs the defensive unit, which is where Wigan and others have killed us - by turning the ball over and running right through/past us. You either win the individual battles or get numbers back. Both would be lovely.

That's my take on it, anyway.

[Worthy4England]

I go back to the last time we won a league. We had outstanding players. But a midfield of Frandsen, Sellars, Sheridan and Pollock. With Thommo and Johansen in the mix too.

They could all play but they also wouldn’t lose any single physical scrap the division offered.

I like Thomason a lot but he is more a greater and worker. He is the most combative we’ve got. But he’s one. And he clearly ran out of legs being asked to do it all himself. We need three midfield players that ilk imo. Morley is more robust but I don’t think he’s mobile enough. Dempsey a good grafter but I feel he’s neither one thing nor another.

Yes, but you might think the top of L1 versions of them (highest they've ever been for the most part) wouldn't be as good as the played in the Prem the season before Champo versions, maybe, but agree that's where a bit of know-how might help, but not really our recruitment MO.

[GhostoftheBok]

When thinking about how to win this division it's probably more helpful to look at the teams that have gone up recently, rather than the Bolton teams of days gone by.

[Bertie Wooster]

I go back to the last time we won a league. We had outstanding players. But a midfield of Frandsen, Sellars, Sheridan and Pollock. With Thommo and Johansen in the mix too.

They could all play but they also wouldn’t lose any single physical scrap the division offered.

I like Thomason a lot but he is more a greater and worker. He is the most combative we’ve got. But he’s one. And he clearly ran out of legs being asked to do it all himself. We need three midfield players that ilk imo. Morley is more robust but I don’t think he’s mobile enough. Dempsey a good grafter but I feel he’s neither one thing nor another.

We need much more physicality, mobility, guile, pace & steel in midfield (such players may be unaffordable or un available in League 1 ?) it's only my personal opinion but I don't think that Thomason or Sheehan are good enough or consistent enough, Dempsey when fully fit and with a run of games probably is.

I have a distant memory of the Charlton home game last season, and I was really impressed with their midfield going forward with the ball - their movement, mobility, pace and how quickly they moved the ball. We are very slow at moving the ball & lack intensity in a lot of games.