creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

[BWFC_Insane]

We'd class Bumrah as one of the best bowlers currently out there and India batsmen being certainly above average, yet their bowlers struggled too in the first innings, apart from Bumrah, and batting they made 6 more than us. We need to move on from Broad and Anderson, I doubt they're coming back any time soon, but that said, I hear you, it could be a long 12 months from here...

Woakes has pushing 200 test wickets - but not notably very good in Aus.
Tongue and Carse both pretty new - with Carse doing well in NZ - but it all feels a bit wing and a prayer.

Well yes we absolutely have to move on - but the reality is that even at their ages they are better than what we’ve got.

Woakes is 36. He’s a decent bowler in English conditions but on these more modern pitches that offer less movement and with his pace dropping his threat is lessening.

We’ve got a few injured who would come in and help, Atkinson, Wood Jofra. But then these are often injured..which is another issue. And not sure any are a complete answer.

I thought Carse bowled ok but feels to me like a 3rd change seamer rather than a premium new ball test option.

Woakes offered little and hasn’t been too accurate either. Tonge is young but I’m really not seeing much. Stokes is a ‘bring him on and make something happen sort’ and I mean he has a knack of breaking partnerships but I’d not put him in a list of good test bowlers.

Indias attack bar Bumrah is equally as insipid as ours tbh. Obviously jadeja on a turner would be up there and we’ve not got anything close. But their other seamers aren’t anything special.

The difference is that they will win a lot in their own conditions - we on the other hand are finding English conditions helping less and less and our bowling skill is not really keeping up.

I fear for us down in Australia. I do think we’ve somewhat lost the plot a bit though. We need line and length bowlers who can keep it in the right areas. For all the stuff about Australia and the wickets metronomic accuracy and discipline matters most and I fear that’s what we lack most. Atkinson would help. And maybe a jofra to rough them up but I’m not convinced by his test ability really. And wood is the same - always injured and not sure he’s really a test bowler on a consistent basis.

I do really think the ashes down there could be very embarrassing. I mean all the Aussies need to do seemingly if we get a partnership going is go short ball tactic and a clatter of caught on the boundary wickets will fall.

[Worthy4England]

I think Jofra made "yet another comeback" in red-ball last week? I agree that both he and Wood are very vulnerable to injury, but I think we're going to look a bit sparse down under without either - unless a new name comes to the fore.

Jimmy/Broady weren't brilliant in Aus, Cummins averages 22, Mcgrath was 23, Siddle under 30, Jimmy was 34 as was Broady - I mean it's a chunk better than Woakes at 50+

Last time we won in Aus, Anderson, Tremlett and Bresnan - Jimmy got 24 at 26 per, Tremlett got 17 at 23 - think he only played in 3 tests, and Bresnan got 11 at 19 per. So Jimmy had a good series as anchor and one of the three, but Tremlett and Bresnan absolutely necessary. Finn added 14 at 33 and Swan added 15 at 40.

[BWFC_Insane]

Well stokes wanted to chase. Have a go at 370 odd. Massive test really. If they chase it fair play. If not he looks to be struggling to me.

[Prufrock]

Struggling?!

[BWFC_Insane]

Struggling?!

In his quest to win some big series. I’m not convinced that what is available to him is able to deliver on the brand of cricket - and make it winning cricket - that he and McCullum want to play.

[Worthy4England]

Struggling?!

In his quest to win some big series. I’m not convinced that what is available to him is able to deliver on the brand of cricket - and make it winning cricket - that he and McCullum want to play.

What I would say is we could all invent a brand of cricket where what is available isn't able to deliver it. That doesn't seem to be a particularly clever move, so like with Evattball, you need to tailor it. When Bazball was invented Pretty sure we said its sterner tests would be Aus/Ind away and Aus/Ind at home. Which I think is legitimate, albeit in between times South Africa and New Zealand have been pretty good too.

When we think back to 1 win in 17 and since McCullum 22 in 35 - that's a pretty big turn around - but it always comes down to the Ashes (Away) - as it should.

[BWFC_Insane]

Struggling?!

In his quest to win some big series. I’m not convinced that what is available to him is able to deliver on the brand of cricket - and make it winning cricket - that he and McCullum want to play.

What I would say is we could all invent a brand of cricket where what is available isn't able to deliver it. That doesn't seem to be a particularly clever move, so like with Evattball, you need to tailor it. When Bazball was invented Pretty sure we said its sterner tests would be Aus/Ind away and Aus/Ind at home. Which I think is legitimate, albeit in between times South Africa and New Zealand have been pretty good too.

When we think back to 1 win in 17 and since McCullum 22 in 35 - that's a pretty big turn around - but it always comes down to the Ashes (Away) - as it should.

Rather like Evattball it looked a bit different with some better players. And losing those players means we need somewhat more pragmatism.

We got quite a bit of luck in this test and yet are chasing 370 to win last day. We may well do it - if the call to bowl first was right we have to be in with a chance. But we also maybe threw away 50 or 60 runs with some ropey dismissals, Smith and Brook I’m looking at you two that with our attack we might have needed.

And yes it’s all about the ashes and whilst we drew at home I was pretty disappointed with that series and now we go away with a very ropey bowling attack. We are going to need some very big scores down there to stand any chance and I fear the way we are playing that we will bat as though we have a front line attack….

[Worthy4England]

I dunno - Brook is a nightmare to watch for anyone familiar with the MCC Coaching Manual - but an average of 58 is pretty solid and he averaged 40 v Aus at home - which is still pretty solid. Smith still grabbed 40 and averages above 40. So also not bad on the averages front. They will of course face a much sterner tests but as much as I think Brook is very lucky (certainly early on in innings), you can't really knock 58 over 41 innings. Either or both might get found out, down under, they wouldn't be the first, I mean as wk/bats, Jos and Johnny averaged 15 and 32, so we sort of know it's a true test.

It's pretty tricky to argue these two are worse, in terms of outcome, from something we had previously, albeit both still pretty formative in their careers.

The bowlers are definitely a concern, but I'm not sure there's a shitload we can do about that - Anderson and Broad almost certainly aren't coming back and at this point, probably shouldn't.

[Worthy4England]

Hmmmmmm.

[BWFC_Insane]

I dunno - Brook is a nightmare to watch for anyone familiar with the MCC Coaching Manual - but an average of 58 is pretty solid and he averaged 40 v Aus at home - which is still pretty solid. Smith still grabbed 40 and averages above 40. So also not bad on the averages front. They will of course face a much sterner tests but as much as I think Brook is very lucky (certainly early on in innings), you can't really knock 58 over 41 innings. Either or both might get found out, down under, they wouldn't be the first, I mean as wk/bats, Jos and Johnny averaged 15 and 32, so we sort of know it's a true test.

It's pretty tricky to argue these two are worse, in terms of outcome, from something we had previously, albeit both still pretty formative in their careers.

The bowlers are definitely a concern, but I'm not sure there's a shitload we can do about that - Anderson and Broad almost certainly aren't coming back and at this point, probably shouldn't.

Agree with that. Not suggesting Brook is anything other than outstanding.

But like Evattball we won a lot of games and got a lot of goals there was always the feeling that when it really mattered on the biggest stage under the biggest pressure it might be a problem. And that’s how I feel a bit about this side with Bazball.

Maybe not a lot can be done - maybe it’s just the cycle of availability.

Going well here so far. Superb from the openers though Duckett was dropped a couple of times.

[BWFC_Insane]

I suspect that Brook is going to take a lot of pelters now.

[Worthy4England]

Not sure you're getting a lot of pelters with a 99 in an overall very good performance. I'd have still batted first!

[Prufrock]

Magnificent stuff. Great test match, great win.

[BWFC_Insane]

Yeah it was a superb test match. Two average attacks but two good batting sides.

Big win - let’s go win the series now.