The Open

[James B]

It was indeed an absolute belter, and amazing that Carnoustie's next OPen has not yet been confirmed. We've had two modern OPens there, and they've boith been superb. Whereas Hoylake can only be described as a short, dull course, and yet it's already been confirmed that it will get another Open.

I was hearing this morning that Portrush is now trying to get it's nose in the trough, too.

well The NI tourist board wants an open in the province. There's portrush and county down (IIRC) that are being touted as venues. All on teh back of the Ryder Cup last year.

but the ryder cup was staged in the roi. wouldn't that be a whole different tourist board?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

It was indeed an absolute belter, and amazing that Carnoustie's next OPen has not yet been confirmed. We've had two modern OPens there, and they've boith been superb. Whereas Hoylake can only be described as a short, dull course, and yet it's already been confirmed that it will get another Open.

I like Carnoustie a lot, and I think this year's Open was a good one, but the one in 1999 is widely regarded, especially by the R&A, as being something of an embarrassment!

I may be extremely biased, seeing as Hoylake is located on my native Wirral, and I've just embarked on the procedure for obtaining membership there, but I think it's a beautiful, nuanced golf course steeped in history, and it absolutely should be on the rota. And as for short? It was playing just under 7300 yards for the Championship!

Last year's Open was superbly run and the atmosphere around it was brilliant. One of my mates worked in the players' locker room at Hoylake and Carnoustie this year, and he was telling me that the set-up at Hoylake was much better. It was won by the world's best player playing some some superb stuff to hold off another very good player also playing some superb stuff.

Have you been there, Fatshaft? Did you go to watch? If you want, I'll take you for a game there and I think you might change your mind.

For now, just have a flick through this gallery: http://www.royal-liverpool-golf.com/newgallery.htm

I have a panaromic photo of a view very similar to this on my wall:

[fatshaft]

It was indeed an absolute belter, and amazing that Carnoustie's next OPen has not yet been confirmed. We've had two modern OPens there, and they've boith been superb. Whereas Hoylake can only be described as a short, dull course, and yet it's already been confirmed that it will get another Open.

I like Carnoustie a lot, and I think this year's Open was a good one, but the one in 1999 is widely regarded, especially by the R&A, as being something of an embarrassment!

I may be extremely biased, seeing as Hoylake is located on my native Wirral, and I've just embarked on the procedure for obtaining membership there, but I think it's a beautiful, nuanced golf course steeped in history, and it absolutely should be on the rota. And as for short? It was playing just under 7300 yards for the Championship!

Last year's Open was superbly run and the atmosphere around it was brilliant. One of my mates worked in the players' locker room at Hoylake and Carnoustie this year, and he was telling me that the set-up at Hoylake was much better. It was won by the world's best player playing some some superb stuff to hold off another very good player also playing some superb stuff.

Have you been there, Fatshaft? Did you go to watch? If you want, I'll take you for a game there and I think you might change your mind.

For now, just have a flick through this gallery: http://www.royal-liverpool-golf.com/newgallery.htm

I have a panaromic photo of a view very similar to this on my wall:

I'll snap your hand off for a game.

I went on the Monday for practise, and back on the Saturday as well.

It was indeed absolutely superbly run, and a fantastic event, no question. I also followed Sergio who was on a charge on the Saturday, and the atmosphere was amazing. However, I think we are all a little skewed by the fact it was an absolute belter of a summer, the course did play short, maybe falsely so becasue of the burnt fairways, but I was very disappointed with the course to be honest. I just found it uninspiring, when I've played so many better courses that will never be on the Open roster, and indeed candidates such as Portrush and Royal County Down that are genuine candidates can't get a look in, while the Liverpool area now has two, plus of course Lytham within an hour's drive too. of course you could argue that there's the Turnberry/Troon, Carnoustie/St.Andrews combos too, which would be fair comment.

[communistworkethic]

It was indeed an absolute belter, and amazing that Carnoustie's next OPen has not yet been confirmed. We've had two modern OPens there, and they've boith been superb. Whereas Hoylake can only be described as a short, dull course, and yet it's already been confirmed that it will get another Open.

I was hearing this morning that Portrush is now trying to get it's nose in the trough, too.

well The NI tourist board wants an open in the province. There's portrush and county down (IIRC) that are being touted as venues. All on teh back of the Ryder Cup last year.

but the ryder cup was staged in the roi. wouldn't that be a whole different tourist board?

it would except you'll find barriers fall rapidly when PR is involved. They're hanging on the coattails of the RC success as it's all Ireland.

[blurred]

Portrush will never host the open, primarily because there isn't really much scope for accommodating all the spectators. Having been round there a couple of times, it strikes me that there isn't really a great deal of room for enough stands around the vast majority of the greens. Would be interesting to see where they put them all back in the 50s when it last hosted it...

[communistworkethic]

the differencing being in the 50s the maximum 60k it can cope with over 4 days was probably plenty, there were 150k+ at Carnoustie and 233k+ at hoylake in 2006.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Portrush will never host the open, primarily because there isn't really much scope for accommodating all the spectators. Having been round there a couple of times, it strikes me that there isn't really a great deal of room for enough stands around the vast majority of the greens. Would be interesting to see where they put them all back in the 50s when it last hosted it...

I think I'm right in saying that it was much smaller numbers involved back in the 50s.

Anyhow, I'm sure they'd find a way, if that were the only issue. There were similar concerns about space at Hoylake, but they managed it.

[blurred]

I think I'm right in saying that it was much smaller numbers involved back in the 50s.

That would be my assumption, too, but I'd still be interested to see which greens they put stands around and where - the 5th is a definite no-no, given that about 3ft off the back of the green there's a 50ft sheer drop down to the Atlantic Ocean!

If it did manage to get there, I wonder if my member-friend could score me some cheap tickets...?

[fatshaft]

I think I'm right in saying that it was much smaller numbers involved back in the 50s.

That would be my assumption, too, but I'd still be interested to see which greens they put stands around and where - the 5th is a definite no-no, given that about 3ft off the back of the green there's a 50ft sheer drop down to the Atlantic Ocean!

If it did manage to get there, I wonder if my member-friend could score me some cheap tickets...?

like Mummy says, there wasn't a lot of space around a lot of Hoylake either. the 11th is hard against a boundary wall left and back with the 12th copming straight back, so there were no stands down those holes at all. You'll always find space somewhere, hard to imagine an Open venue being held in a smaller space than that of Hoylake.

[communistworkethic]

hoylake coped with 100,000 people more than carnoustie over the 4 days of the open

[fatshaft]

the differencing being in the 50s the maximum 60k it can cope with over 4 days was probably plenty, there were 150k+ at Carnoustie and 233k+ at hoylake in 2006.

hoylake coped with 100,000 people more than carnoustie over the 4 days of the open

It did indeed, why are you repeating yourself?

[kagni]

No hope of Portrush or County Down hosting the Open.
Portrush barely coped with crowds of 6000 a day at a Senior British Open
and the crowds for the upcoming Walker Cup at Royal County Down will be limited to 10000 a day.

[communistworkethic]

the differencing being in the 50s the maximum 60k it can cope with over 4 days was probably plenty, there were 150k+ at Carnoustie and 233k+ at hoylake in 2006.

hoylake coped with 100,000 people more than carnoustie over the 4 days of the open

It did indeed, why are you repeating yourself?

as you were suggesting Hoylake was a small venue - when it coped with 50% more than somewhere you don't suggest is small, seems an odd comment.

the fact is most gold course aren't set as spectator venues - not the old ones any way.

[fatshaft]

the differencing being in the 50s the maximum 60k it can cope with over 4 days was probably plenty, there were 150k+ at Carnoustie and 233k+ at hoylake in 2006.

hoylake coped with 100,000 people more than carnoustie over the 4 days of the open

It did indeed, why are you repeating yourself?

as you were suggesting Hoylake was a small venue - when it coped with 50% more than somewhere you don't suggest is small, seems an odd comment.

the fact is most gold course aren't set as spectator venues - not the old ones any way.

Ah gotcha. No Hoylake is very very tight, they did very well to get as many grandstands in there. I think Carnoustie would cope with considerably more, but location and this year's weather meant it was never tested.

Nevertheless, the point is irrelevant, my complaint around Hoylake is that it's a poor venue relative to many courses that would like to host the Open, and even many that don't. It was a great Open to be at, but the weather was superb and made opinions skewed purely because of that. Tiger won the OPen by hitting one wood from the tee all week, not an all round test in my view. Garcia tried the same trick this year, but Carnoustie demands more than safety first.

[communistworkethic]

in that case Loch Lomond is a better venue for an open - but a less spectator orientated design would be hard to contemplate.

[fatshaft]

in that case Loch Lomond is a better venue for an open - but a less spectator orientated design would be hard to contemplate.

It's not a links.

Commie, I'm not sure why you're trying to argue for arguments sake, you seem to have missed the whole point, I'm talking about the fact that Hoylake seems to have gotten onto the Open roster simply by shouting loudest, while venues such as Portrush and RCD continue to be overlooked. If you have comment to make on that, rather than parkland courses that are irrelevant, or spectating figures then I'm all ears.

[communistworkethic]

I don't see how the fact that the random factor of the weather over a weekend seems to be your big deciding factor between Hoylake and Carnoustie. Had the sun been out last weekend and the week before it'd have been a different kettle of fish up there and vice versa in 2006 at Hoylake.

And Hoylake joined the rotation about 114 years ago, hosting 11 opens now. it must have shouted loudly a long time ago. As for long absences, Carnoustie itself spent over 20 years without an open.

As for LL - just because the Open is usually played on a links, why should it remain so? It's the British Open, there are woodland, moorland an links courses. Why shouldn't they get a shout? LLGC provides the variation of teeshots you seemed to desire, so would other courses.

[Bruce Rioja]

Isn't it scribbled in stone somewhere that the rules of The Open state that it must be played within earshot of the sea? Or is that just some tripe that I've been fed with?

[communistworkethic]

it was also written that women weren't allowed in or on St Andrews and that's changed

[fatshaft]

I don't see how the fact that the random factor of the weather over a weekend seems to be your big deciding factor between Hoylake and Carnoustie. Had the sun been out last weekend and the week before it'd have been a different kettle of fish up there and vice versa in 2006 at Hoylake.

And Hoylake joined the rotation about 114 years ago, hosting 11 opens now. it must have shouted loudly a long time ago. As for long absences, Carnoustie itself spent over 20 years without an open.

As for LL - just because the Open is usually played on a links, why should it remain so? It's the British Open, there are woodland, moorland an links courses. Why shouldn't they get a shout? LLGC provides the variation of teeshots you seemed to desire, so would other courses.

Commie, your last sentence seems to prove you have no idea what you're talking about. As Bruce says, the Open has to be played on a links course, hence no LL, Sunningdale etc.

I have no idea what you're on about in your first sentence. Obviously Carnoustie would have had more spectators if the sun was out, just as Hoylake would have had fewer if it was miserable. What has that got to do with the quality of the golf course?

Carnoustie was dropped due to lack of accomodation, so they built that one you saw behind the 18th green. I am well aware that Hoylake was off the rota for nigh on 50 years, but then when did Prestwick last hold an Open? No-one is shouting for that to come back. Just because a course used to be suitable for the Open, doesn't mean it is in the modern era.