Paul Ince - praise for a change
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I'm glad someone else has commented on this. It wasn't so long since Ince was moaning that black managers didn't get the same opportunities. Well, what's his excuse now? There was a reason Ince didn't get chances at other Premiership clubs, and it wasn't to do with the colour of his skin
Having said that, if he plays a part in the demise of Dirtburn he can be made a freeman of Bolton and given keys to the town
Having said that, if he plays a part in the demise of Dirtburn he can be made a freeman of Bolton and given keys to the town
I don't think the fact he is rubbish disproves his original point. What a lot of people have said (not particularly you HRG) borders on a twisted racist syllogism. Paul Ince is black. Paul Ince is rubbish. Therefore, black managers are rubbish. The statement that there are fewer black managers and coaches at football league clubs than you would expect given demographic's of the population AND current players, is certainly true. There are many reasons this could be, racism being one of them. It could also be the fact that since there havent yet been many black managers in this country, there are no real role models, or the fact that whilst there are many black players now, the fact that black players werent all that common until the late 70's means there arent that many black ex-footballers of management age. Personally i think there is a combination of all of these factors.hisroyalgingerness wrote:I'm glad someone else has commented on this. It wasn't so long since Ince was moaning that black managers didn't get the same opportunities. Well, what's his excuse now? There was a reason Ince didn't get chances at other Premiership clubs, and it wasn't to do with the colour of his skin
Having said that, if he plays a part in the demise of Dirtburn he can be made a freeman of Bolton and given keys to the town
I do find the comparision between Roy Keane and Ince interesting. They were very similar players, very similar characters, both driven, both controversial and yet Keane walked into a job at Sunderland, and Ince ended up at Macclesfield. Similarly Southgate walked into the Bruff job. Now theres the argument that Keane and Southgate went straight to mangement, whereas Ince waited and perhaps wasnt at the front of consciousness as much, which needs to be considered. Also Southgate had just retired at Bruff, and Keane and Quinn clearly have a link. All this together though means i can certainly see why Paul Ince feels football is rife with racsim.
All that said he himself is still wank, and I would love him forever if he took them down.
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Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.
That it's going to lose its mind
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Numbers, pure and simple. There are more Southgates, Pearces and co breaking through the coaching ranks. Paul Ince was the first black captain of England wasn't he? So that indicates very little went before him player wise, so it'll be some time before a manager broke through.
In fairness to Ince, it might not have all been him, I'm sure the press will have picked up on a tiny quote and managed to blow it beyond any type of proportion. But we had a similar discussion to this in the Strictly Come Dancing scenario. There wasn't racism involved, just some dancers happened to be better than others.
I find all this racism stuff really baffling, I'm at an age where I really don't see colour or religion any more than I would judge someone on their blood type.
In fairness to Ince, it might not have all been him, I'm sure the press will have picked up on a tiny quote and managed to blow it beyond any type of proportion. But we had a similar discussion to this in the Strictly Come Dancing scenario. There wasn't racism involved, just some dancers happened to be better than others.
I find all this racism stuff really baffling, I'm at an age where I really don't see colour or religion any more than I would judge someone on their blood type.
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There WAS a racist aspect to Roy Keane getting the Sunderland job. Sunderland had been taken over by an Irish group, Chaired & fronted by Niall Quinn & they gave the job to a guy they knew ... & who COULD have been a great manager, but it turned out wasn't.
The link was that they knew him due to his Irish background.
Hardly racism in the traditional sense, but ...
The issue I have with Ince is that he ... or people on his behalf ... are suggesting his predicament is due to his skin colour. It's not ... it's because he's shite.
Maybe Bolton were guilty of sizeism in binning-off Sammy Lee.
The link was that they knew him due to his Irish background.
Hardly racism in the traditional sense, but ...
The issue I have with Ince is that he ... or people on his behalf ... are suggesting his predicament is due to his skin colour. It's not ... it's because he's shite.
Maybe Bolton were guilty of sizeism in binning-off Sammy Lee.
Not advocating mass-murder as an entirely positive experience, of course, but it had its moments.
"I understand you are a very good footballer" ... "I try".
"I understand you are a very good footballer" ... "I try".
Agreed completely. I understand and perhaps sympathise when he complains that he had to start at a lower level than his contempories, though my sympathy is wafer thin seeing as none of them have any qualifications, and as someone who has no past football career, yet have done 5 years coaching, it pisses me off how they walk into jobs full stop. All that said however, the reason he is getting stick now is because he isnt doing a good job, I don't see how he can claim anything else. Although, to momentarily play devil's advocate, Roy Keane, who started at Sunderland, inherited a decent side and has had millions to jizz on rubbish for some reason is held in the highest esteem by the media, and yet Paul Ince who for my money acheived more than Keane did is never quite hailed as a future great manager for some reason. My view, they're both rubbish!bobo the clown wrote:There WAS a racist aspect to Roy Keane getting the Sunderland job. Sunderland had been taken over by an Irish group, Chaired & fronted by Niall Quinn & they gave the job to a guy they knew ... & who COULD have been a great manager, but it turned out wasn't.
The link was that they knew him due to his Irish background.
Hardly racism in the traditional sense, but ...
The issue I have with Ince is that he ... or people on his behalf ... are suggesting his predicament is due to his skin colour. It's not ... it's because he's shite.
Maybe Bolton were guilty of sizeism in binning-off Sammy Lee.
All this doesnt take away from the general fact that there are fewer black managers and coaches than would be expected.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.
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Talking about Sammy Lee? Sizeist!Prufrock wrote:Agreed completely. I understand and perhaps sympathise when he complains that he had to start at a lower level than his contempories, though my sympathy is wafer thin seeing as none of them have any qualifications, and as someone who has no past football career, yet have done 5 years coaching, it pisses me off how they walk into jobs full stop. All that said however, the reason he is getting stick now is because he isnt doing a good job, I don't see how he can claim anything else. Although, to momentarily play devil's advocate, Roy Keane, who started at Sunderland, inherited a decent side and has had millions to jizz on rubbish for some reason is held in the highest esteem by the media, and yet Paul Ince who for my money acheived more than Keane did is never quite hailed as a future great manager for some reason. My view, they're both rubbish!bobo the clown wrote:There WAS a racist aspect to Roy Keane getting the Sunderland job. Sunderland had been taken over by an Irish group, Chaired & fronted by Niall Quinn & they gave the job to a guy they knew ... & who COULD have been a great manager, but it turned out wasn't.
The link was that they knew him due to his Irish background.
Hardly racism in the traditional sense, but ...
The issue I have with Ince is that he ... or people on his behalf ... are suggesting his predicament is due to his skin colour. It's not ... it's because he's shite.
Maybe Bolton were guilty of sizeism in binning-off Sammy Lee.
All this doesnt take away from the general fact that there are fewer black managers and coaches than would be expected.
And the most insensitive headline of the week award goes to...
http://www.setanta.com//uk/Blogs/Chris- ... l-lynched/
http://www.setanta.com//uk/Blogs/Chris- ... l-lynched/
"Young people, nowadays, imagine money is everything."
"Yes, and when they grow older they know it."
"Yes, and when they grow older they know it."
Well he is in a particularly backward part of the world.......................Verbal wrote:And the most insensitive headline of the week award goes to...
http://www.setanta.com//uk/Blogs/Chris- ... l-lynched/
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