European and Local Elections

[superjohnmcginlay]

Well said Bobo.

The problem is that no one asked the indiginous population if they'd like free, unfettered, mass immigration. Anyone who stated concerns about it was immeadiatley branded a racist bigot. It's a neat way of closing down an arguement. The liberal fascists are the one's who think that people are too thick/bigotted/ignorant that they would even think of voting for a far Right party like the BNP.

It's got nothing to do with their legitimate concerns about untrammeled immigration, it's because they need re-educationg to think the right way.

It's the same disease that the EU has when the thick/bigotted/ignorant people don't vote the right way. Get trounced in the polls? Can't have that old sport. Call another election until the hoi polloi vote the right way.

And they call the BNP fascists. Amazing.

Done the edit for you matey, think the commies maybe upset by lumping the BNP with them

As has been mentioned in the politics thread the BNP are on the left.

Eh

If you actually look at what pass for their policies they're socialist.

[Hoboh]

Have a look at their manifesto.

A brief skim through BNP manifesto literature brings to light proposals for the following: large increases in state pensions; more money for the NHS; improved worker protection; state ownership of key industries. Under Griffin, the modern-day far right has positioned itself to the left of Labour

See my post didn't need your edit after all.

Ah so their main stream policies are left wing but their immigration policiy is right wing phew glad thats cleared up then

[Hoboh]

Hang on now I'm confused!!!!!

"Gordon Brown's political survival is hanging in the balance as Labour suffered a devastating rout in the European elections.
The party was beaten into third place by the UK Independence Party (Ukip) in the popular vote while the far right British National Party achieved a major breakthrough gaining their first Euro seats.
The scale of the defeat could be the catalyst for rebel Labour backbenchers manoeuvring to oust Mr Brown to come out into the open and launch a direct leadership challenge".

[InsaneApache]

I bet you got that from the BBC.

It's uncomfortable truth for the left that fascism is socialisms bastard child. You only need to read Il Duces biography to understand that.

[BWFC_Insane]

Well said Bobo.

The problem is that no one asked the indiginous population if they'd like free, unfettered, mass immigration. Anyone who stated concerns about it was immeadiatley branded a racist bigot. It's a neat way of closing down an arguement. The liberal fascists are the one's who think that people are too thick/bigotted/ignorant that they would even think of voting for a far left party like the BNP.

It's got nothing to do with their legitimate concerns about untrammeled immigration, it's because they need re-educationg to think the right way.

It's the same disease that the EU has when the thick/bigotted/ignorant people don't vote the right way. Get trounced in the polls? Can't have that old sport. Call another election until the hoi polloi vote the right way.

And they call the BNP fascists. Amazing.

Thats probably what people said of the Nationalist Socialist Party in Germany. And look how that ended up!

BWFCI even I happen to think they are a bunch of rats but we live in a democrcy (at least till someone votes me in) and the fault of the main party's to deal with the immigration/pollitical favouritisum shown to forgeiners fuels support for these partys.
The main problem seems to me that most veiw anti forigners as anti black and this is not the case its the unchecked flood of migrant workers that cases the most problems with the strain on our already p*ss poor inferstucture such as heatlh housing etc. How many people in all honesty are happy for our goverment to be shelling out aid abroad whilst telling us they are broke and we will have to pay more tax?
Its despair not racist or stupidity why they are collecting votes nowt else. (ps I know the speelings going again!)

Out of interest Hoboh what are your issues with "immigrant workers" and assuming they are legal immigrants do you have a problem?

[Hoboh]

Well said Bobo.

The problem is that no one asked the indiginous population if they'd like free, unfettered, mass immigration. Anyone who stated concerns about it was immeadiatley branded a racist bigot. It's a neat way of closing down an arguement. The liberal fascists are the one's who think that people are too thick/bigotted/ignorant that they would even think of voting for a far left party like the BNP.

It's got nothing to do with their legitimate concerns about untrammeled immigration, it's because they need re-educationg to think the right way.

It's the same disease that the EU has when the thick/bigotted/ignorant people don't vote the right way. Get trounced in the polls? Can't have that old sport. Call another election until the hoi polloi vote the right way.

And they call the BNP fascists. Amazing.

Thats probably what people said of the Nationalist Socialist Party in Germany. And look how that ended up!

BWFCI even I happen to think they are a bunch of rats but we live in a democrcy (at least till someone votes me in) and the fault of the main party's to deal with the immigration/pollitical favouritisum shown to forgeiners fuels support for these partys.
The main problem seems to me that most veiw anti forigners as anti black and this is not the case its the unchecked flood of migrant workers that cases the most problems with the strain on our already p*ss poor inferstucture such as heatlh housing etc. How many people in all honesty are happy for our goverment to be shelling out aid abroad whilst telling us they are broke and we will have to pay more tax?
Its despair not racist or stupidity why they are collecting votes nowt else. (ps I know the speelings going again!)

Out of interest Hoboh what are your issues with "immigrant workers" and assuming they are legal immigrants do you have a problem?

TBH its jobs, wages, housing, crime, cash leaving our country and going abroad, the fact the police, NHS etc cannot cope with the problems already here without a couple of million others arriving.
We have shed loads of youngsters hanging around being given money to do nowt but drink or stay in bed, how the hell can we get tough and send them out to work for a living if all the jobs they could do are filled by Poles etc?

[BWFC_Insane]

Well said Bobo.

The problem is that no one asked the indiginous population if they'd like free, unfettered, mass immigration. Anyone who stated concerns about it was immeadiatley branded a racist bigot. It's a neat way of closing down an arguement. The liberal fascists are the one's who think that people are too thick/bigotted/ignorant that they would even think of voting for a far left party like the BNP.

It's got nothing to do with their legitimate concerns about untrammeled immigration, it's because they need re-educationg to think the right way.

It's the same disease that the EU has when the thick/bigotted/ignorant people don't vote the right way. Get trounced in the polls? Can't have that old sport. Call another election until the hoi polloi vote the right way.

And they call the BNP fascists. Amazing.

Thats probably what people said of the Nationalist Socialist Party in Germany. And look how that ended up!

BWFCI even I happen to think they are a bunch of rats but we live in a democrcy (at least till someone votes me in) and the fault of the main party's to deal with the immigration/pollitical favouritisum shown to forgeiners fuels support for these partys.
The main problem seems to me that most veiw anti forigners as anti black and this is not the case its the unchecked flood of migrant workers that cases the most problems with the strain on our already p*ss poor inferstucture such as heatlh housing etc. How many people in all honesty are happy for our goverment to be shelling out aid abroad whilst telling us they are broke and we will have to pay more tax?
Its despair not racist or stupidity why they are collecting votes nowt else. (ps I know the speelings going again!)

Out of interest Hoboh what are your issues with "immigrant workers" and assuming they are legal immigrants do you have a problem?

TBH its jobs, wages, housing, crime, cash leaving our country and going abroad, the fact the police, NHS etc cannot cope with the problems already here without a couple of million others arriving.
We have shed loads of youngsters hanging around being given money to do nowt but drink or stay in bed, how the hell can we get tough and send them out to work for a living if all the jobs they could do are filled by Poles etc?

Firstly there are broadly two major types of immigrant workers.

1 is highly skilled workers filling positions where we don't have enough people of the right skills over here. For example, Doctors.

2 is the low skilled ones who are on the whole filling positions that are not desirable for the majority of people in this country or are not well enough paid to appeal to them.

Now in case 1 it is easier to fill those critical positions with foreign contractors as training unemployed people to be doctors/nurses will of course be expensive and will not plug the immediate gap.

In case 2 with rising unemployment I imagine there will be more people from the UK willing to take those positions than previously.

Thing is what is happening in many cases is simply a result of capitalism. If you are an employer and can employ 100 polish people cheaper than 100 british nationals to do a job where the Poles probably work harder and longer hours so they can return to Poland wealthy, what are they meant to do? The driver for that is capitalism.

Now have you got a mobile phone? Because most mobile phone companies have moved their support centres to India/Asia to save money thus offering customers cheaper contracts. This means less jobs in the UK than would otherwise exist but nobody complains because they have a cheaper contract and it saves them money. Plus they don't have the inconvience of seeing an asian man living near them as they are where "they belong" in India. Funnily enough the only time they complain is when they have to ring up support and have the inconvinience of talking to someone who isn't British!

[Prufrock]

Well said Bobo.

The problem is that no one asked the indiginous population if they'd like free, unfettered, mass immigration. Anyone who stated concerns about it was immeadiatley branded a racist bigot. It's a neat way of closing down an arguement. The liberal fascists are the one's who think that people are too thick/bigotted/ignorant that they would even think of voting for a far left party like the BNP.

It's got nothing to do with their legitimate concerns about untrammeled immigration, it's because they need re-educationg to think the right way.

It's the same disease that the EU has when the thick/bigotted/ignorant people don't vote the right way. Get trounced in the polls? Can't have that old sport. Call another election until the hoi polloi vote the right way.

And they call the BNP fascists. Amazing.

This liberal facism started to spring up in the 50s. The EEC was ther front runner to the EU, and then there were facist ideas like the Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms. Now remind me, something big happened in the decade before the 50s, what was it again? As Monty has said in the politics thread, if there's one thing the 20th century should have taught us, it is that minorities need protecting.

There is no excuse for voting BNP, if you think immigration is at an unsustainable level, and are anti Europe, and want to vote for a non mainstream party as a protest vote, vote UKIP. Simples.

[Hoboh]

Still does not find jobs or training for the ambitious yoof does it?
If you are an employer you take the cheapest easyist options IF ITS THERE! remove it and it the work still needs doing and will have to filled by people in this country.
Orange etc move their call centres abroad to fuel the greed of the city and large investors by maintaining profit levels after being found out with their rip off tarrifs.

[Hoboh]

Well said Bobo.

The problem is that no one asked the indiginous population if they'd like free, unfettered, mass immigration. Anyone who stated concerns about it was immeadiatley branded a racist bigot. It's a neat way of closing down an arguement. The liberal fascists are the one's who think that people are too thick/bigotted/ignorant that they would even think of voting for a far left party like the BNP.

It's got nothing to do with their legitimate concerns about untrammeled immigration, it's because they need re-educationg to think the right way.

It's the same disease that the EU has when the thick/bigotted/ignorant people don't vote the right way. Get trounced in the polls? Can't have that old sport. Call another election until the hoi polloi vote the right way.

And they call the BNP fascists. Amazing.

This liberal facism started to spring up in the 50s. The EEC was ther front runner to the EU, and then there were facist ideas like the Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms. Now remind me, something big happened in the decade before the 50s, what was it again? As Monty has said in the politics thread, if there's one thing the 20th century should have taught us, it is that minorities need protecting.

There is no excuse for voting BNP, if you think immigration is at an unsustainable level, and are anti Europe, and want to vote for a non mainstream party as a protest vote, vote UKIP. Simples.

I did, so did the rest of the family!

Right so in your world every other so n so suffers to protect a few in some cases very very few, how noble!

[BWFC_Insane]

Still does not find jobs or training for the ambitious yoof does it?
If you are an employer you take the cheapest easyist options IF ITS THERE! remove it and it the work still needs doing and will have to filled by people in this country.Orange etc move their call centres abroad to fuel the greed of the city and large investors by maintaining profit levels after being found out with their rip off tarrifs.

Yes but removing options is not in the interests of capitalism is it?

Would said companies simply not relocate to eastern europe ala Phone Companies losing the UK the business and jobs anyways?

I think the ambitious youth will find jobs still but the days are changing. You need an education of some form now but if you are truly ambitious you will get one. Its not employers fault that on the whole foreign workers are better and cheaper.

Myself I have seen countless examples of foreign workers coming over and doing jobs that you simply couldn't fill otherwise. Or bringing skills you simply can't get over here. One of the issues with capitalism is that everyone seems to think it only works one way. In that the system gets rich and makes them rich. But when the system struggles then so will the people in it. Rough with the smooth and all that.

Interesting thing is the main reason we're in trouble financially is Western banks, bankers and their customers. Predominantly in this country its the British nationals who have caused the problems by overspending, over lending and over borrowing. "The white British male who has too many loans/credit cards" is as much to blame as anyone else. Yet in the recession as ever its foreign workers who take the flak.

[Hoboh]

Still does not find jobs or training for the ambitious yoof does it?
If you are an employer you take the cheapest easyist options IF ITS THERE! remove it and it the work still needs doing and will have to filled by people in this country.Orange etc move their call centres abroad to fuel the greed of the city and large investors by maintaining profit levels after being found out with their rip off tarrifs.

Yes but removing options is not in the interests of capitalism is it?
Then maybe my system of not allowing totally unfetered capitalism is the answer!!
Would said companies simply not relocate to eastern europe ala Phone Companies losing the UK the business and jobs anyways?
Not if we were allowed without being labeled racist or narrowminded for promoting and supporting British goods and services
I think the ambitious youth will find jobs still but the days are changing. You need an education of some form now but if you are truly ambitious you will get one. Its not employers fault that on the whole foreign workers are better and cheaper.
XFactor or BGT?
Myself I have seen countless examples of foreign workers coming over and doing jobs that you simply couldn't fill otherwise. Or bringing skills you simply can't get over here.
Lack of training?
One of the issues with capitalism is that everyone seems to think it only works one way. In that the system gets rich and makes them rich. But when the system struggles then so will the people in it. Rough with the smooth and all that.
So if you are made unemployed and there are no jobs you think that would be accetable then?
Interesting thing is the main reason we're in trouble financially is Western banks, bankers and their customers. Predominantly in this country its the British nationals who have caused the problems by overspending, over lending and over borrowing. "The white British male who has too many loans/credit cards" is as much to blame as anyone else.
Unfetered Capitalism to blame then?
Yet in the recession as ever its foreign workers who take the flak.

[BWFC_Insane]

Still does not find jobs or training for the ambitious yoof does it?
If you are an employer you take the cheapest easyist options IF ITS THERE! remove it and it the work still needs doing and will have to filled by people in this country.Orange etc move their call centres abroad to fuel the greed of the city and large investors by maintaining profit levels after being found out with their rip off tarrifs.

Would said companies simply not relocate to eastern europe ala Phone Companies losing the UK the business and jobs anyways?
Not if we were allowed without being labeled racist or narrowminded for promoting and supporting British goods and services
I:

Hoboh go to a supermarket take a look at how many products are labelled as "British" or "Best of British" or have a union Jack on them.

Think your claim is quite clearly bollox. The usual tripe spouted out by erm dare I say it....no best not!

[Hoboh]

Still does not find jobs or training for the ambitious yoof does it?
If you are an employer you take the cheapest easyist options IF ITS THERE! remove it and it the work still needs doing and will have to filled by people in this country.Orange etc move their call centres abroad to fuel the greed of the city and large investors by maintaining profit levels after being found out with their rip off tarrifs.

Would said companies simply not relocate to eastern europe ala Phone Companies losing the UK the business and jobs anyways?
Not if we were allowed without being labeled racist or narrowminded for promoting and supporting British goods and services
I:

Hoboh go to a supermarket take a look at how many products are labelled as "British" or "Best of British" or have a union Jack on them.

Think your claim is quite clearly bollox. The usual tripe spouted out by erm dare I say it....no best not!

Hell if your best examples areTescos and ASDA lord help us!

[Zulus Thousand of em]

It's uncomfortable truth for the left that fascism is socialisms bastard child. You only need to read Il Duces biography to understand that.

What he said! National Socialism in the 1920's and 1930's was closer to Communism than any other political ethos. Which is why they identified them as their biggest rivals and thus set out to destroy them.

The clue's in the name.

[Prufrock]

Well said Bobo.

The problem is that no one asked the indiginous population if they'd like free, unfettered, mass immigration. Anyone who stated concerns about it was immeadiatley branded a racist bigot. It's a neat way of closing down an arguement. The liberal fascists are the one's who think that people are too thick/bigotted/ignorant that they would even think of voting for a far left party like the BNP.

It's got nothing to do with their legitimate concerns about untrammeled immigration, it's because they need re-educationg to think the right way.

It's the same disease that the EU has when the thick/bigotted/ignorant people don't vote the right way. Get trounced in the polls? Can't have that old sport. Call another election until the hoi polloi vote the right way.

And they call the BNP fascists. Amazing.

This liberal facism started to spring up in the 50s. The EEC was ther front runner to the EU, and then there were facist ideas like the Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms. Now remind me, something big happened in the decade before the 50s, what was it again? As Monty has said in the politics thread, if there's one thing the 20th century should have taught us, it is that minorities need protecting.

There is no excuse for voting BNP, if you think immigration is at an unsustainable level, and are anti Europe, and want to vote for a non mainstream party as a protest vote, vote UKIP. Simples.

I did, so did the rest of the family!

Right so in your world every other so n so suffers to protect a few in some cases very very few, how noble!

You and I have very, very different definitions of the verb 'to suffer'.

[Prufrock]

It's uncomfortable truth for the left that fascism is socialisms bastard child. You only need to read Il Duces biography to understand that.

What he said! National Socialism in the 1920's and 1930's was closer to Communism than any other political ethos. Which is why they identified them as their biggest rivals and thus set out to destroy them.

The clue's in the name.

I'm not entirely sure how important it is where they are on a left wing- right wing pollitical compass, since that is largely defined by economic policy, and it isn't the economic ideas (more funding for the NHS etc..) that most people have a problem with. More the mental Naziism.

I disagree with a lot of what UKIP say, but at least there arguments are based on economic principles, not some sort of natural order of races, therefore it is acceptable, there is a clear difference.

This constant 'it's a democracy all opinions are valid' is bollocks. There's a balance to strike. Stopping people saying things because you don't like what they say is different than stopping people saying things because they are wrong, dangerous, and incite violence and hatred. I fully understand the dissafection with the main parties, but voting for racists is still not justifiable, nor is staying away. For all the people who declined to vote, a quick read of Mr Niemoller's 'First they came' is advised. There is a worrying complacency and apathy in this country. People seem to assume it's OK they'll never get in. A few years ago the BNP would never get any council seats, then they'd never get euro MP seats. Well they did, and they have. I am sickened today. I really am.

[Hoboh]

Well said Bobo.

The problem is that no one asked the indiginous population if they'd like free, unfettered, mass immigration. Anyone who stated concerns about it was immeadiatley branded a racist bigot. It's a neat way of closing down an arguement. The liberal fascists are the one's who think that people are too thick/bigotted/ignorant that they would even think of voting for a far left party like the BNP.

It's got nothing to do with their legitimate concerns about untrammeled immigration, it's because they need re-educationg to think the right way.

It's the same disease that the EU has when the thick/bigotted/ignorant people don't vote the right way. Get trounced in the polls? Can't have that old sport. Call another election until the hoi polloi vote the right way.

And they call the BNP fascists. Amazing.

This liberal facism started to spring up in the 50s. The EEC was ther front runner to the EU, and then there were facist ideas like the Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms. Now remind me, something big happened in the decade before the 50s, what was it again? As Monty has said in the politics thread, if there's one thing the 20th century should have taught us, it is that minorities need protecting.

There is no excuse for voting BNP, if you think immigration is at an unsustainable level, and are anti Europe, and want to vote for a non mainstream party as a protest vote, vote UKIP. Simples.

I did, so did the rest of the family!

Right so in your world every other so n so suffers to protect a few in some cases very very few, how noble!

You and I have very, very different definitions of the verb 'to suffer'.

I can assure you I have not got a tache or a funny parting in my hair and I do possess two balls!

[Montreal Wanderer]

It's uncomfortable truth for the left that fascism is socialisms bastard child. You only need to read Il Duces biography to understand that.

What he said! National Socialism in the 1920's and 1930's was closer to Communism than any other political ethos. Which is why they identified them as their biggest rivals and thus set out to destroy them.

The clue's in the name.

Closer in that they were both totalitarian regimes at the opposite end of the spectrum from liberal democracies, though differing in philosophies and who in theory is in charge. Communism has generally required an overthrow of the state by revolution, while right wing dictatorship were often military coups. The fascists/nazis were, however, democratically elected in Germany and Italy and acquired absolute power more slowly through passing of laws.

[Zulus Thousand of em]

It's uncomfortable truth for the left that fascism is socialisms bastard child. You only need to read Il Duces biography to understand that.

What he said! National Socialism in the 1920's and 1930's was closer to Communism than any other political ethos. Which is why they identified them as their biggest rivals and thus set out to destroy them.

The clue's in the name.

Closer in that they were both totalitarian regimes at the opposite end of the spectrum from liberal democracies, though the philosophies and who in theory is in charge. Communism has generally required an overthrow of the state by revolution, while right wing dictatorship were often military coups. The fascists/nazis were, however, democratically elected in Germany and Italy and acquired absolute power more slowly through passing of laws.

Agreed Monty. Hence my earlier recommendation of William Shirer's "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich."