The Politics Thread

[Prufrock]

You'll probably die of old age in the queue.

Unless I bury her under the patio tomorrow.

Fook that, she's got Alzheimers right? Chuck her in the Thames and tell her she's a canoe. Grave=Public Urinal.

[Hoboh]

Disrespectful lot you are! Maggie made all our lives much better by smashing the Union Barons painful but it needed doing. We would have a world run by shop stewards and any of you lot in self employment or looking at setting up in business would be regulated twice as much as you are now.

Worthy do you really think the Argies just woke up one morning and thought "I know lets invade the Falklands" they'd been planing it for ages Endeavour or no Endeavour, besides the boats little more than a souped up tug!

Thatcher did some stupid things, but history will show she did a lot more good and during her tenure no one jacked the Brits about.
God we've had some weasels since!

[Worthy4England]

Disrespectful lot you are! Maggie made all our lives much better by smashing the Union Barons painful but it needed doing. We would have a world run by shop stewards and any of you lot in self employment or looking at setting up in business would be regulated twice as much as you are now.

Worthy do you really think the Argies just woke up one morning and thought "I know lets invade the Falklands" they'd been planing it for ages Endeavour or no Endeavour, besides the boats little more than a souped up tug!

Thatcher did some stupid things, but history will show she did a lot more good and during her tenure no one jacked the Brits about.
God we've had some weasels since!

If the Argies had been planning it for ages, why would we sell off the Endeavour and not replace it as a cost cutting exercise? You're right in that it alone mighy not have stopped any invasion, but as deterrents go, it was better than nowt.

History will show, she was one evil bitch who pitted man against man and community against community by promoting politics of the self.

[William the White]

Disrespectful lot you are! Maggie made all our lives much better by smashing the Union Barons painful but it needed doing. We would have a world run by shop stewards and any of you lot in self employment or looking at setting up in business would be regulated twice as much as you are now.

Worthy do you really think the Argies just woke up one morning and thought "I know lets invade the Falklands" they'd been planing it for ages Endeavour or no Endeavour, besides the boats little more than a souped up tug!

Thatcher did some stupid things, but history will show she did a lot more good and during her tenure no one jacked the Brits about.
God we've had some weasels since!

If the Argies had been planning it for ages, why would we sell off the Endeavour and not replace it as a cost cutting exercise? You're right in that it alone mighy not have stopped any invasion, but as deterrents go, it was better than nowt.

History will show, she was one evil bitch who pitted man against man and community against community by promoting politics of the self.

I'll accept this judgement provisionally, Worthy. only because I've work to do and can't spend any time trying to think of something more vituperative. The Thatcher years (God, how they seemed to crawl) were the bleakest time for our country, and particularly our town and region, since the 1930s. Decisions made then - especially the destruction of manufacturing and its replacement by finance capital as the driver - continue to haunt us now. Abysmal. And a sort of moral catastrophe. May she go soon, and rot in hell...

[BWFC_Insane]

Disrespectful lot you are! Maggie made all our lives much better by smashing the Union Barons painful but it needed doing. We would have a world run by shop stewards and any of you lot in self employment or looking at setting up in business would be regulated twice as much as you are now.

Worthy do you really think the Argies just woke up one morning and thought "I know lets invade the Falklands" they'd been planing it for ages Endeavour or no Endeavour, besides the boats little more than a souped up tug!

Thatcher did some stupid things, but history will show she did a lot more good and during her tenure no one jacked the Brits about.
God we've had some weasels since!

If the Argies had been planning it for ages, why would we sell off the Endeavour and not replace it as a cost cutting exercise? You're right in that it alone mighy not have stopped any invasion, but as deterrents go, it was better than nowt.

History will show, she was one evil bitch who pitted man against man and community against community by promoting politics of the self.

I'll accept this judgement provisionally, Worthy. only because I've work to do and can't spend any time trying to think of something more vituperative. The Thatcher years (God, how they seemed to crawl) were the bleakest time for our country, and particularly our town and region, since the 1930s. Decisions made then - especially the destruction of manufacturing and its replacement by finance capital as the driver - continue to haunt us now. Abysmal. And a sort of moral catastrophe. May she go soon, and rot in hell...

What WtW said.

I'm amazed the someone like Hobinho who seems always to stick up for the "man on the street" can dare have a good word to say about Maggie!

The mess we're in with bankers and huge bankers bonuses all stems back to her time in charge! She positively encouraged the "yuppie" culture.

She was in short a disgrace to the human race!

[superjohnmcginlay]

Its odd how this 1 woman can divide opinion to such extremes. Having been too young to really know what was going on at the time I can only read and listen to the opnions of people at the time. A lot seem to think as Worthy and WtW but then on the other hand others think she was a hero and "the 70s were a lot fooking worse" as my dad would say.
Fook knows who's right.

[Lord Kangana]

I think thats the point Superjohn, its not really about right and wrong, but that Thatcher undertook a radical programme of social geryymandering simply based on principle. That some gained and some lost was neither here nor there to her.

[Hoboh]

Disrespectful lot you are! Maggie made all our lives much better by smashing the Union Barons painful but it needed doing. We would have a world run by shop stewards and any of you lot in self employment or looking at setting up in business would be regulated twice as much as you are now.

Worthy do you really think the Argies just woke up one morning and thought "I know lets invade the Falklands" they'd been planing it for ages Endeavour or no Endeavour, besides the boats little more than a souped up tug!

Thatcher did some stupid things, but history will show she did a lot more good and during her tenure no one jacked the Brits about.
God we've had some weasels since!

If the Argies had been planning it for ages, why would we sell off the Endeavour and not replace it as a cost cutting exercise? You're right in that it alone mighy not have stopped any invasion, but as deterrents go, it was better than nowt.

History will show, she was one evil bitch who pitted man against man and community against community by promoting politics of the self.

I'll accept this judgement provisionally, Worthy. only because I've work to do and can't spend any time trying to think of something more vituperative. The Thatcher years (God, how they seemed to crawl) were the bleakest time for our country, and particularly our town and region, since the 1930s. Decisions made then - especially the destruction of manufacturing and its replacement by finance capital as the driver - continue to haunt us now. Abysmal. And a sort of moral catastrophe. May she go soon, and rot in hell...

What WtW said.

I'm amazed the someone like Hobinho who seems always to stick up for the "man on the street" can dare have a good word to say about Maggie!

The mess we're in with bankers and huge bankers bonuses all stems back to her time in charge! She positively encouraged the "yuppie" culture.

She was in short a disgrace to the human race!

Maggie's biggest mistake was a failure to support British industry and move things on too quickly (along with the Poll Tax of course) but real reform was needed and badly! Was it Thatcher or the unions who ruined the car industry? Thatcher or that great representative of the British workers Scargill who ruined the coal industry? IMF and winter of discontent? Being told how much bonus on piece work you were allowed to make by a shop steward?
Thatcher was a counter balance to the "I'm alright Jacks" of the world then, I am really shocked you clever blokes can be so blinkered and blind to this! Ok some things were a little extreme but hey what's being unable to bury your dead? or get jostled outside a hospital by pickets if not extreme?

[BWFC_Insane]

Disrespectful lot you are! Maggie made all our lives much better by smashing the Union Barons painful but it needed doing. We would have a world run by shop stewards and any of you lot in self employment or looking at setting up in business would be regulated twice as much as you are now.

Worthy do you really think the Argies just woke up one morning and thought "I know lets invade the Falklands" they'd been planing it for ages Endeavour or no Endeavour, besides the boats little more than a souped up tug!

Thatcher did some stupid things, but history will show she did a lot more good and during her tenure no one jacked the Brits about.
God we've had some weasels since!

If the Argies had been planning it for ages, why would we sell off the Endeavour and not replace it as a cost cutting exercise? You're right in that it alone mighy not have stopped any invasion, but as deterrents go, it was better than nowt.

History will show, she was one evil bitch who pitted man against man and community against community by promoting politics of the self.

I'll accept this judgement provisionally, Worthy. only because I've work to do and can't spend any time trying to think of something more vituperative. The Thatcher years (God, how they seemed to crawl) were the bleakest time for our country, and particularly our town and region, since the 1930s. Decisions made then - especially the destruction of manufacturing and its replacement by finance capital as the driver - continue to haunt us now. Abysmal. And a sort of moral catastrophe. May she go soon, and rot in hell...

What WtW said.

I'm amazed the someone like Hobinho who seems always to stick up for the "man on the street" can dare have a good word to say about Maggie!

The mess we're in with bankers and huge bankers bonuses all stems back to her time in charge! She positively encouraged the "yuppie" culture.

She was in short a disgrace to the human race!

Maggie's biggest mistake was a failure to support British industry and move things on too quickly (along with the Poll Tax of course) but real reform was needed and badly! Was it Thatcher or the unions who ruined the car industry? Thatcher or that great representative of the British workers Scargill who ruined the coal industry? IMF and winter of discontent? Being told how much bonus on piece work you were allowed to make by a shop steward?
Thatcher was a counter balance to the "I'm alright Jacks" of the world then, I am really shocked you clever blokes can be so blinkered and blind to this! Ok some things were a little extreme but hey what's being unable to bury your dead? or get jostled outside a hospital by pickets if not extreme?

Which is ironically (or not) very close to the justifications many Germans used during Hitlers first few years in charge!

[as]

Its odd how this 1 woman can divide opinion to such extremes. Having been too young to really know what was going on at the time I can only read and listen to the opnions of people at the time. A lot seem to think as Worthy and WtW but then on the other hand others think she was a hero and "the 70s were a lot fooking worse" as my dad would say.
Fook knows who's right.

I'll second that, my old man thinks she's the devil and I've met others, also working class, who says she's a hero?

Very strange, but unlike today's mob, at least she has some supporters.

Sadly being the 'iron lady' in politics didn't help her from spawning a corrupt son and a daughter who took p**s live on reality tv

[Worthy4England]

Disrespectful lot you are! Maggie made all our lives much better by smashing the Union Barons painful but it needed doing. We would have a world run by shop stewards and any of you lot in self employment or looking at setting up in business would be regulated twice as much as you are now.

Worthy do you really think the Argies just woke up one morning and thought "I know lets invade the Falklands" they'd been planing it for ages Endeavour or no Endeavour, besides the boats little more than a souped up tug!

Thatcher did some stupid things, but history will show she did a lot more good and during her tenure no one jacked the Brits about.
God we've had some weasels since!

If the Argies had been planning it for ages, why would we sell off the Endeavour and not replace it as a cost cutting exercise? You're right in that it alone mighy not have stopped any invasion, but as deterrents go, it was better than nowt.

History will show, she was one evil bitch who pitted man against man and community against community by promoting politics of the self.

I'll accept this judgement provisionally, Worthy. only because I've work to do and can't spend any time trying to think of something more vituperative. The Thatcher years (God, how they seemed to crawl) were the bleakest time for our country, and particularly our town and region, since the 1930s. Decisions made then - especially the destruction of manufacturing and its replacement by finance capital as the driver - continue to haunt us now. Abysmal. And a sort of moral catastrophe. May she go soon, and rot in hell...

What WtW said.

I'm amazed the someone like Hobinho who seems always to stick up for the "man on the street" can dare have a good word to say about Maggie!

The mess we're in with bankers and huge bankers bonuses all stems back to her time in charge! She positively encouraged the "yuppie" culture.

She was in short a disgrace to the human race!

Maggie's biggest mistake was a failure to support British industry and move things on too quickly (along with the Poll Tax of course) but real reform was needed and badly! Was it Thatcher or the unions who ruined the car industry? Thatcher or that great representative of the British workers Scargill who ruined the coal industry? IMF and winter of discontent? Being told how much bonus on piece work you were allowed to make by a shop steward?
Thatcher was a counter balance to the "I'm alright Jacks" of the world then, I am really shocked you clever blokes can be so blinkered and blind to this! Ok some things were a little extreme but hey what's being unable to bury your dead? or get jostled outside a hospital by pickets if not extreme?

She presided over a political party that has been unelectable for thirteen years and you can only think of one mistake?

The Union issue was all but over in the early part of the 80's. It needed some challenging - of that I have no doubt.

She took my milk away from me at Junior school through prudent cost cutting. Bitch then, Bitch now, Bitch when she's long gone.

I could go on about her mistakes at some length. and may do when I have a little more time rather than sound bites. Just one thing for now, you don't believe that free market economics had anything at all to do with the global crisis that recently hit? If you don't you need to read the Turner Review. It's a fair indictment of the economic model that we set up in the 80's (and perpetuated through successive Labour Governments).

Oh and while we're at it - don't ever complain to me about how much you're paying for gas, electric, train tickets etc.

[superjohnmcginlay]

Hang on I don't get your first bit. It was Major who got kicked out, infact they were electable even after she was removed in 1990.

[Lord Kangana]

On the point of the coal strike Hobo, my (late) uncle was an engineer at one of the power stations over in Nottinghamshire in the 70's and 80's. Upon the Tories assuming power, they were instructed to stockpile coal, drill bore holes, build new light railways and undertale excercises in how to deal with a prolonged strike,and effectively to break it. From a political point of view, the government of the time was awaiting the moment so they could take the miners union on on their own terms. Effectively, once all these measures were in place, they then put in place policy measures which they knew would result in widespread and prolonged strike. And then they would smash it The rest is chipwrapper, as they say.

[superjohnmcginlay]

Bloody good planning.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

On the point of the coal strike Hobo, my (late) uncle was an engineer at one of the power stations over in Nottinghamshire in the 70's and 80's. Upon the Tories assuming power, they were instructed to stockpile coal, drill bore holes, build new light railways and undertale excercises in how to deal with a prolonged strike,and effectively to break it. From a political point of view, the government of the time was awaiting the moment so they could take the miners union on on their own terms. Effectively, once all these measures were in place, they then put in place policy measures which they knew would result in widespread and prolonged strike. And then they would smash it The rest is chipwrapper, as they say.

Well, if you fail to prepare then you prepare to fail, as they say...

[Hoboh]

On the point of the coal strike Hobo, my (late) uncle was an engineer at one of the power stations over in Nottinghamshire in the 70's and 80's. Upon the Tories assuming power, they were instructed to stockpile coal, drill bore holes, build new light railways and undertale excercises in how to deal with a prolonged strike,and effectively to break it. From a political point of view, the government of the time was awaiting the moment so they could take the miners union on on their own terms. Effectively, once all these measures were in place, they then put in place policy measures which they knew would result in widespread and prolonged strike. And then they would smash it The rest is chipwrapper, as they say.

Wouldn't you plan like that given King Scagill's boasts that the miners could bring down any government? And if you were a Tory you learned the lesson when Ted Heath was in power, the miners were used as political tools by those with links to communists, the sort nearly all the rest of the world could not wait to get rid of.
All these coal mines could not exist a lot of them for geological reasons, but the NUM leadership wanted to keep them open at all costs, or more particularly at the cost of everyone else!
My Great grandfather and Grandfather both worked down the mines and my Grandfather always said Scargill would ruin them.

[Worthy4England]

Hang on I don't get your first bit. It was Major who got kicked out, infact they were electable even after she was removed in 1990.

Indeed, most of the chickens didn't come home to roost until after Black Wednesday in 1992. But the train had already left in the Lawson/Thatcher boom and bust years.

[Worthy4England]

On the point of the coal strike Hobo, my (late) uncle was an engineer at one of the power stations over in Nottinghamshire in the 70's and 80's. Upon the Tories assuming power, they were instructed to stockpile coal, drill bore holes, build new light railways and undertale excercises in how to deal with a prolonged strike,and effectively to break it. From a political point of view, the government of the time was awaiting the moment so they could take the miners union on on their own terms. Effectively, once all these measures were in place, they then put in place policy measures which they knew would result in widespread and prolonged strike. And then they would smash it The rest is chipwrapper, as they say.

Wouldn't you plan like that given King Scagill's boasts that the miners could bring down any government? And if you were a Tory you learned the lesson when Ted Heath was in power, the miners were used as political tools by those with links to communists, the sort nearly all the rest of the world could not wait to get rid of.
All these coal mines could not exist a lot of them for geological reasons, but the NUM leadership wanted to keep them open at all costs, or more particularly at the cost of everyone else!
My Great grandfather and Grandfather both worked down the mines and my Grandfather always said Scargill would ruin them.

Because of the fact there's no pits open anymore and you can't follow the family tradition, we get you on here every day. That's another black mark against Thatcher.

[superjohnmcginlay]

Im just getting some form of deja vu reading all this.
LK's "social gerrymandering" - sounds like the current lot.
"chickens coming home to roost" (after a boom) - sounds like the current lot.

Does it really make any difference which set of bastards are in?

[Worthy4England]

Im just getting some form of deja vu reading all this.
LK's "social gerrymandering" - sounds like the current lot.
"chickens coming home to roost" (after a boom) - sounds like the current lot.

Does it really make any difference which set of bastards are in?

I've probably come to the conclusion that the answer is generally no, to be honest.

My real gripe, is that the Tory's looked after their own for longer than any other section of society - Mr Mondeo Man in middle England.

They really, really didn't care about stuff like the Toxteth and Brixton riots as they wouldn't lose (m)any votes by worrying about the problem.

Similar with the miners strike - didn't affect the Tory heartland.

Many of their cash saving policies were targeted at people who were unlikely to vote for them anyhow.

Unemployment, typically at 9-13% affected the North way more than the South as there was a move away from a manufacturing base to a services one.

As to gerrymandering - that bitch from down South, Dame Shirley Porter if I recall correctly was actually convicted of it.

There is a slight difference between the current "bust" and the one from the early 90's. The Tories had used interest rates as a vote winner (generally reducing them around the time of elections, whether it was prudent economically to do so or not). The bust in 1991/2 was almost exclusively of their own making, when they tried to join the ERM at an interest rate that was too high. This forced a run on Sterling that meant they had to push interest rates even higher, causing a hugh amount of negative equity as a knock-on effect.