Trash!

[Worthy4England]

I think he's been quite clear the criteria isn't rich or poor

Its (and this is only 1 test) whether you can bring up your kids with no financial support from the state

If you show you can do this despite being poor, we'll move onto number 2

how far down your list of criteria is "pure-blooded arian"?

Probably about the same place as complete hyperbole. Race hasn't been mentioned. But hey, some folk think people should be more accountable for the kids they have, so they must be Nazis....

[InsaneApache]

Oh I see. He meant aryan. Someone from Iran then. Ridiculous.

[thebish]

are you all such Forum newbies that you don't recognise "doing a Godwin" when you see it??

tschh.. amateurs!

the law of Godwin states:

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1". In other words, Godwin put forth the sarcastic observation that, given enough time, all discussions—regardless of topic or scope—inevitably wind up being about Hitler and the Nazis."

it is traditional in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished.

[Bruce Rioja]

I usually find that people invoke Godwin only when they've lost.

[Prufrock]

where has Pru promoted this "do as you like, say what you like" world? I must have missed it. I thought Pru was often accused of wanting to restrict the good old "British freedom of speech" by not wanting people to refer to others as "pakis" or "wogs" or "gypos" or "eyeties" - or of spoiling peoples' fun by objecting to racially stereotyped Irish jokes.

he can't be accused of both surely?? what on earth do you mean?

You obviously haven't read many of Pru's views on other threads then. You've never heard him say that people should be able to do and say as they like? Really?

no - perhaps you could quote an example or two? (bet you can't)

Why not ask him. I respect his honesty. If he says he never said any such thing I'll apologise and withdraw the remark.

ok - Pru - have you constantly promoted a "do as you like, say what you like" world?

Nope. Free speech is not unconditional, and we are all subject to the law. As a guiding principle I believe in the idea that we should be free to speak and do as we please as long as it does not harm anybody else, or infringe on their rights to do so as well. That is not the same as 'do as you like, say what you like'.

[thebish]

I usually find that people invoke Godwin only when they've lost.

indeed - that is the convention - or when it is requested (see page 6).

it is often considered poor form to deliberately invoke Godwin in order to end a thread - but I won't lose sleep over poor form!

[CAPSLOCK]

You obviously haven't read many of Pru's views on other threads then. You've never heard him say that people should be able to do and say as they like? Really?

no - perhaps you could quote an example or two? (bet you can't)

Why not ask him. I respect his honesty. If he says he never said any such thing I'll apologise and withdraw the remark.

ok - Pru - have you constantly promoted a "do as you like, say what you like" world?

Nope. Free speech is not unconditional, and we are all subject to the law. As a guiding principle I believe in the idea that we should be free to speak and do as we please as long as it does not harm anybody else, or infringe on their rights to do so as well. That is not the same as 'do as you like, say what you like'.

Well, folk dropping kids every 12 months does affect me

[Prufrock]

no - perhaps you could quote an example or two? (bet you can't)

Why not ask him. I respect his honesty. If he says he never said any such thing I'll apologise and withdraw the remark.

ok - Pru - have you constantly promoted a "do as you like, say what you like" world?

Nope. Free speech is not unconditional, and we are all subject to the law. As a guiding principle I believe in the idea that we should be free to speak and do as we please as long as it does not harm anybody else, or infringe on their rights to do so as well. That is not the same as 'do as you like, say what you like'.

Well, folk dropping kids every 12 months does affect me

I didn't say affect you. Some things affect me that I don't like, things people say, do, think, wear. The response is to suck it up and be a big boy. Like the bastard carnival yesterday. Frigging noise, the place is trashed, pissed up knobheads and I couldn't get dow where I wanted. Their right to have a shit carnival trumps my right for folk not to have one. My right not to be stabbed overcomes someone's right to do a stabbing because that would harm me.

However folk might well argue that their right to do what they want is infringed by the cost of looking after these kids. I don't necessarily agree, or don't think it serious enough to warrant state sanctioned forced abortions, but I can see that argument. My post you quoted wasn't there as an argument on this issue, it was there to clear up my views with regards to a world where you can 'do as you like, say what you like'.

As for the issue itself, in reality, once we have taken in account people who had worked, but have fallen on hard times, people who want to work but can't, whether because despite looking properly they can't find anything or due to disability, or people who do have jobs but don't earn enough to look after kids on their own, all of whom Worthy seems to have indicated would, since they either have contributed or are genuinley trying to contribute, be eligible for a 'breeding licence' (I'd get PR to come up with a better name ), the number left would be so insignificant anyway. As Bish says a state which sanctions forced abortions and castrations is one I would like to live in less than one where a very small number of people take advantage. To do a 'reckon', I reckon most folk on here's kids cost the super-rich more in terms of child benefit, tax credits, school books, health care, than the extra for milk from the few folk who do genuinley scrounge a dossing living.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

There's a much more sober point of comparison than Nazi Germany, when it comes to forced abortions, informing on illegal pregnancies etc, and that is the modern day People's Republic of China.

Anyway, whilst there is a fair bit wrong with Britain today, it's all stuff I think I could tolerate before state-enforced abortions, sterilizations and the like. I mean bloody hell!

There could well be a more sensible discussion had about how the benefit system is structured and what incentives it provides. I don't think many would find it unreasonable if you were to argue that having children should not be a ticket for those unwilling (or even unable) to work have a better lifestyle. So that the children didn't suffer, what you might then argue for is some sort of voucher system that meant that money had to be spent on clothes, food etc.

And then you might want to talk about increased efforts in sexual education, making contraception (and yes, perhaps even voluntary abortion) even more easily available etc. Part of that education might well be that it's bloody hard and often unpleasant bringing up children under a harsh(er) benefits system.

But for some people, if we get other things right, mainly in education, there's a chance that their child(ren) could be the only thing of any value they contribute to society. I don't think I have a reputation for being a bed-wetting liberal, but I'm happy to allow myself that little bit of idealism... certainly over some of what's been suggested here, at any rate!

[thebish]

There's a much more sober point of comparison than Nazi Germany, when it comes to forced abortions, informing on illegal pregnancies etc, and that is the modern day People's Republic of China.

Anyway, whilst there is a fair bit wrong with Britain today, it's all stuff I think I could tolerate before state-enforced abortions, sterilizations and the like. I mean bloody hell!

There could well be a more sensible discussion had about how the benefit system is structured and what incentives it provides. I don't think many would find it unreasonable if you were to argue that having children should not be a ticket for those unwilling (or even unable) to work have a better lifestyle. So that the children didn't suffer, what you might then argue for is some sort of voucher system that meant that money had to be spent on clothes, food etc.

And then you might want to talk about increased efforts in sexual education, making contraception (and yes, perhaps even voluntary abortion) even more easily available etc. Part of that education might well be that it's bloody hard and often unpleasant bringing up children under a harsh(er) benefits system.

But for some people, if we get other things right, mainly in education, there's a chance that their child(ren) could be the only thing of any value they contribute to society. I don't think I have a reputation for being a bed-wetting liberal, but I'm happy to allow myself that little bit of idealism... certainly over some of what's been suggested here, at any rate!

I did make the china comparison a few pages ago... I can live with what we have now - (and - yes - I have paid tax for well over half my entire life) - I still reckon the UK is a pretty damn fine place to live and is not the broken society shit-hole that Cameron and his chums seem to think it is - at least not for those of us lucky enough to BE employed and have somewhere to live....

[Worthy4England]

Bloody bedwetting liberal.

[thebish]

Bloody bedwetting liberal.

you mean mummy, of course!

[Lord Kangana]

Theres a direct correlation between a successful education system (and particularly one that has equality across the board), and lower birth-rates. Mostly, I think, because it enables women to forge their own careers and therefore be less reliant on men. David Attenborough said so, anyway.

[thebish]

at today's prices - how much cash would you have to demonstrate to earn a license?

I've a better way. Ask the prospective parents what they'll name their offspring. If the answer comes back something along the lines of "If it's a girl, Nicotinella, or if it's a boy, either Painton or Diadora" PULL!

but you'd allow Tarquin and Jocasta?

(A registrar I know says it is only a matter of time before a little girl is named Chlamidia..... )

Of course.

Actually, given your line of duty there must've been one or two that you've struggled to keep a straight face with. Please tell.

the one I had to warn the congregation about in advance (so they would not snigger) was a poor young lad who was named William Wellington Washington Birt (they told me they had been very careful not to have William Washington Wellington Birt - cos that would sound like "wellington boot" and he'd be teased at school!!)

also there has been more than one little girl with the middle name "Beyonce"....

but nowt REALLY outrageous to date...

When I worked in Hartlepool they had a thing for irish names - but never spelled them right - and took offense if the registrar tried to point it out to them..

hence.. shavorne, neeve, catlynne etc..... hyphenated names were also popular in Hartlepool - as if they couldn't choose between two names - so had both...

Terri-Leigh, Kay-Leigh, Leigh-Ann etc...

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

the one I had to warn the congregation about in advance (so they would not snigger) was a poor young lad who was named William Wellington Washington Birt (they told me they had been very careful not to have William Washington Wellington Birt - cos that would sound like "wellington boot" and he'd be teased at school!!)

also there has been more than one little girl with the middle name "Beyonce"....

but nowt REALLY outrageous to date...

When I worked in Hartlepool they had a thing for irish names - but never spelled them right - and took offense if the registrar tried to point it out to them..

hence.. shavorne, neeve, catlynne etc..... hyphenated names were also popular in Hartlepool - as if they couldn't choose between two names - so had both...

Terri-Leigh, Kay-Leigh, Leigh-Ann etc...

There appear to be 5 people called 'Latrine' in the US!

http://names.whitepages.com/first/Latrine

[Gary the Enfield]

INCOMING!!!!!!!


http://thesun.mobi/thescottishsun/news/ ... html?mob=1

[Gary the Enfield]

at today's prices - how much cash would you have to demonstrate to earn a license?

I've a better way. Ask the prospective parents what they'll name their offspring. If the answer comes back something along the lines of "If it's a girl, Nicotinella, or if it's a boy, either Painton or Diadora" PULL!

but you'd allow Tarquin and Jocasta?

(A registrar I know says it is only a matter of time before a little girl is named Chlamidia..... )

Of course.

Actually, given your line of duty there must've been one or two that you've struggled to keep a straight face with. Please tell.

the one I had to warn the congregation about in advance (so they would not snigger) was a poor young lad who was named William Wellington Washington Birt (they told me they had been very careful not to have William Washington Wellington Birt - cos that would sound like "wellington boot" and he'd be teased at school!!)

also there has been more than one little girl with the middle name "Beyonce"....

but nowt REALLY outrageous to date...

When I worked in Hartlepool they had a thing for irish names - but never spelled them right - and took offense if the registrar tried to point it out to them..

hence.. shavorne, neeve, catlynne etc..... hyphenated names were also popular in Hartlepool - as if they couldn't choose between two names - so had both...

Terri-Leigh, Kay-Leigh, Leigh-Ann etc...

Surely in Hartlepool you would've expected Mon-Keigh?

[thebish]

Surely in Hartlepool you would've expected Mon-Keigh?

very good!

mystifyingly - they are very proud of that story. (basically - so the story goes - a napoleonic ship is wrecked and a ship's monkey is washed ashore - they put it on trial and hang it for spying...)

when a scots seaside town claimed the incident happened up there - not in Hartlepool - the people of Hartlepool were up in arms saying - "No it wasn't - we did that - you bastards!" while I was gently saying - "let them have it - it's hardly a flattering tale of our town's cosmopolitan untelligence!"

[Worthy4England]

INCOMING!!!!!!!


http://thesun.mobi/thescottishsun/news/ ... html?mob=1

They've just been a bit unlucky...

It's only right that we should feel a little sorry for them and happily foot the bill.

[BWFC_Insane]

INCOMING!!!!!!!


http://thesun.mobi/thescottishsun/news/ ... html?mob=1

They've just been a bit unlucky...

It's only right that we should feel a little sorry for them and happily foot the bill.

What we should do is

1) To not use sources like the Sun that put a particular slant on a story like that.

2) Try to ensure we have a society where folk feel that they want to make a contribution rather than live off the state, but also one where people are properly supported when required.

3) Realise that for every story like that, there are hundreds of untold ones of folk who genuinely need support who don't get enough and as a result live truly miserable lives you wouldn't wish on your worst enemies.