Mark Davies (sparky)

[officer_dibble]

Wasn't advocating a bender before the game but I can't see anything wrong with drinks on his weekend off. Am I missing some big scandal here? Everyone talks bollocks when they are pissed.

Like I said if I've missed some major scandal let me know but until his boozing affects what he does on the pitch, not saying it won't but it hasn't IMO, I'm not arsed. Unless he has been caught doing Nazi impressions and pissing on graves or something?

[bobo the clown]

Where's the video of the Mitchell and Webb 'I reckon' sketch?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQnd5ilKx2Y

[BWFC_Insane]

Unless there is some unbelievably shocking story behind this I couldn't give a toss. We had no game on, lads been playing pretty well when used this season and he is young free and single (I assume). He can do what he wants within reason! I'd do the same.

This

Not sure about that. I'm all for him going about enjoying himself, but pissed out of his head giving it the big I am...? He's at the age, and ability, where attitude decides whether or not he makes it. That is of course all assuming the wildest of these rumours are true. There is a very good chance they aren't.

What Pru said. The difference between a player making it and not is often not talent or ability but their mental attitude.

Drinking alcohol no matter when will have a negative effect on a players performance. Even just one pint here or there will have some negative impact. Going on benders is just totally stupid and probably if people really really want to know why English football is in the shit this is one of the major reasons.

Do the Spanish national players go on "benders" every so often, or are they just a little more intelligent than your average English numpty? Certainly seems that way looking from the outside.

Where's the video of the Mitchell and Webb 'I reckon' sketch?

Do you think they do? Is it unreasonable to suggest that English players on the whole are less intelligent that those from Europe? Our players seemed incapable of going through the world cup without having a drink. If you listen to foreign journalists this does not seem to be the case for the majority of players in other teams especially the top European ones.

[Lord Kangana]

I thought the Spanish were allowed to drink whenever they wanted?

I still believe at the heart of it theres a cultural issue about our approach to drink. We do tend to drink to get drunk. Its not drink per se thats the issue.

[thebish]

I thought the Spanish were allowed to drink whenever they wanted?

I still believe at the heart of it theres a cultural issue about our approach to drink. We do tend to drink to get drunk. Its not drink per se thats the issue.

spot, and indeed, on.

[seanworth]

I thought the Spanish were allowed to drink whenever they wanted?

I still believe at the heart of it theres a cultural issue about our approach to drink. We do tend to drink to get drunk. Its not drink per se thats the issue.

Is there any other way? A bit like saying he only smokes weed to get stoned. Yes I do get your point. I think moderation is the word.

[BWFC_Insane]

I thought the Spanish were allowed to drink whenever they wanted?

I still believe at the heart of it theres a cultural issue about our approach to drink. We do tend to drink to get drunk. Its not drink per se thats the issue.

Thats kind of what I'm driving at. There were strict rules imposed by Capello on our players that I believe allowed them the odd drink here or there but made sure they spent most of the afternoons in their rooms resting. They couldn't handle it as they are used to doing whatever they want.

Capello relented and then let them have some "beers" together.

Now I'm not saying that the Spanish or Italians or Germans or Dutch etc didn't drink but it seems that their players have been under similar regimes to Capellos (the Italians do so every tournament apparently) and coped without needing to get together for a beer. Then they also aren't pictured after losing smoking cigars and drinking.

IMO every professional footballer who is able to play in and around the top of the game should restrict themselves to 2 units a week or better still be tee-total whilst their careers are ongoing. They should not smoke anything and look after their bodies. Perhaps thats an idealistic view but with the demands of the game now and the money they are paid its what I and I suspect many people expect as the bare minimum. I can never ever have sympathy with a manager saying his players are "tired" if half of them are out getting hammered two nights a week.

[Lord Kangana]

Does the 2 units a week have any research grounding? Is that athlete specific? I doubt even our Spanish and Italian friends are sticking to that.

Again, from my reading on the wider issue, most continental people drink a similar amount of units to ourselves (honestly, believe it or not), but their drinking habits are completely different. They tend to alwayys drink with meals and spread their units out through the week, we get to friday and spend 48 hours pickled. The latter approach is bad for you. The former less so (a study of southern French men showed their average alcohol consumption to be 2/3rds a bottle of wine per day. But that was also their drinking habit, not all in one go at the weekend).

[ohjimmyjimmy]

Shit...i'm practically French.

[General Mannerheim]

if id have been at the world cup, to be told i wasnt allowed a single drink would drive my insane, so when the manger did relent, id have probably gone wild too. if there were no strict rules about it tho, id probably have had a couple of bottles of beer here and there in the evening to relax and that would have been it.

imo they should be allowed to do what they want within reason, if it effects their game then thats their fault and their out of the team.

[BWFC_Insane]

Does the 2 units a week have any research grounding? Is that athlete specific? I doubt even our Spanish and Italian friends are sticking to that.

Again, from my reading on the wider issue, most continental people drink a similar amount of units to ourselves (honestly, believe it or not), but their drinking habits are completely different. They tend to alwayys drink with meals and spread their units out through the week, we get to friday and spend 48 hours pickled. The latter approach is bad for you. The former less so (a study of southern French men showed their average alcohol consumption to be 2/3rds a bottle of wine per day. But that was also their drinking habit, not all in one go at the weekend).

I think you are right that for your average joe on the street the difference between a bottle of wine spread over a week and 2 units is probably not that great. It does still have negative health effects though and the odd positive one of course but overall in normal circumstances you'd be healthier not drinking, even if it isn't a pronounced amount.

But top athletes as footballers are considered to be the effects are more pronounced. I once did a bit of work with some sports scientists who were adamant about how negatively alcohol could affect an atheletes performance (I think they were looking at cyclists). I think if players are sensible they can drink in the summer when they haven't got games before pre-season which will give them a chance to re-dress the balance during pre-season training. I suppose being realistic most players will have a few mid-week drinks and again as much as it might be "better" for them not to I don't suppose many will take issue. But being out after many drinks at 2am midweek (and I'm not being specific here) but there are players that do that, will mean they cannot be at 100% physical condition for the game on Saturday. Same kind of issues with footballers who eat fast food or smoke. I know they will say "If we pass the fitness tests then what does it matter?" but they are still below where they could be IMO!

[Lord Kangana]

No-one has conclusively proven that being teetotal is any more beneficial than being a moderate drinker or vice versa . There are plenty of studies around, however, that link moderate drinking with a healthier lifestyle than "binge" drinking (to give it its tabloid name). I might add that the above study covers a group of men with the highest life expectancy in the western world, and they come above teetotalers.

[Tombwfc]

This

Not sure about that. I'm all for him going about enjoying himself, but pissed out of his head giving it the big I am...? He's at the age, and ability, where attitude decides whether or not he makes it. That is of course all assuming the wildest of these rumours are true. There is a very good chance they aren't.

What Pru said. The difference between a player making it and not is often not talent or ability but their mental attitude.

Drinking alcohol no matter when will have a negative effect on a players performance. Even just one pint here or there will have some negative impact. Going on benders is just totally stupid and probably if people really really want to know why English football is in the shit this is one of the major reasons.

Do the Spanish national players go on "benders" every so often, or are they just a little more intelligent than your average English numpty? Certainly seems that way looking from the outside.

Where's the video of the Mitchell and Webb 'I reckon' sketch?

Do you think they do? Is it unreasonable to suggest that English players on the whole are less intelligent that those from Europe? Our players seemed incapable of going through the world cup without having a drink. If you listen to foreign journalists this does not seem to be the case for the majority of players in other teams especially the top European ones.

Do I think they do? I have no idea, do you? There are well documented stories about top footballers from nigh on every country behaving innapropriately. I would be more suprised if Spain had struck upon the only set of footballers who are 100% dedicated 100% of the time.

Is it unreasonable to suggest that English players are less intelligent? Again, based on what? There was a video knocking around from Spain's open-top bus celebrations which had Cesc Fabregas trying to hold up a pissed Pique, who then spat at one of the staff for a laugh. Don't exactly sound like members of mensa do they?

Of course, outside of that complete lack of proof, this whole idea is largely illogical anyway. The likes of Lampard, Gerrard, Terry and Rooney regularly outperform players from all sorts of nationalities both in the league and in the Champions League. Ashley Cole is the best left-back in the world, and he smokes as well as drinks. Why would their rampant unproffesionalism only affect them when they pull on an England shirt?

I would agree that attitude is one of the things that will sort out of the top players from the could-have-beens, and if someone has a geniune drink problem then that'll obviously affect things. I don't think having the odd drink is much of an indication either way though. Certainly I don't think it's the reason why we're so shit internationally. If you gave Iniesta 10 pints and a shot of heroin I'd still back him to play better than Gareth Barry.

[ohjimmyjimmy]

Is it unreasonable to suggest that English players are less intelligent? Again, based on what? There was a video knocking around from Spain's open-top bus celebrations which had Cesc Fabregas trying to hold up a pissed Pique, who then spat at one of the staff for a laugh. Don't exactly sound like members of mensa do they?

Well, they had just won the world cup...

English footballers call this 'saturday night'.

If they are the most dedicated and professional, its no great coincidence they won the world cup. If they then want to let off steam after such an achievement and get drunk off half a bottle of champagne, so be it. At least they know they have deserved it but will be back to full dedication to their craft once the effects wear off.

[Tombwfc]

Is it unreasonable to suggest that English players are less intelligent? Again, based on what? There was a video knocking around from Spain's open-top bus celebrations which had Cesc Fabregas trying to hold up a pissed Pique, who then spat at one of the staff for a laugh. Don't exactly sound like members of mensa do they?

Well, they had just won the world cup...

English footballers call this 'saturday night'.

If they are the most dedicated and professional, its no great coincidence they won the world cup. If they then want to let off steam after such an achievement and get drunk off half a bottle of champagne, so be it. At least they know they have deserved it but will be back to full dedication to their craft once the effects wear off.

I don't generally disagree. What I was using it to illustrate was that there is no reason to assume without proof that they are all refined gentlemen as is being suggested. Liklihood is that young millionaires are young millionaires regardless of where they happened to be born.

Again, someone is going to have to show me the correlation between intelligence, casual alcohol use and performance on a football field. Over the past 6 years, 22 Englishmen have appeared in the Champions League final, compared to 16 Spaniards.

[thebish]

who are the 22 Englishmen?

[Lord Kangana]

I was with you all the way until the final sentence Tom.

11 Spaniards (is it now 23?) have won the World Cup, no Englishman has in my lifetime. Indeed no Englishman has won the European Championships in my lifetime.

I would suggest the latter is much more reflective of a national footballing culture than your proposition. And just out of interest, how many foreigners played alongside those Englishmen (as in how many players were involved in the winning of the trophy who weren't English?). Winning the Champions League is much more indicative of our games financial hegemony.

[TKIZ!]

I was with you all the way until the final sentence Tom.

11 Spaniards (is it now 23?) have won the World Cup, no Englishman has in my lifetime. Indeed no Englishman has won the European Championships in my lifetime.

I would suggest the latter is much more reflective of a national footballing culture than your proposition. And just out of interest, how many foreigners played alongside those Englishmen (as in how many players were involved in the winning of the trophy who weren't English?). Winning the Champions League is much more indicative of our games financial hegemony.

True all that LK, we'll never see a Euro or World Cup win for England in any of our life times either

[potter1989bwfc]

Mate of mine's a copper. Tells this story. There's a call to come to Barracuda bar in Bolton one night, there's some rowdiness going on. Get's there. Mark Davies is stood on a table waving a wad of notes about saying "look at me, I got loadsa money"

'kin footballers

He was in Barracuda? I hope this was at the start of the night, definitely not the best bar around...

Nope, he ended up in J2

[seanworth]

Certainly a country's culture is going to play a role with alcohol, but isn't class going to have an effect as well. I only say this because in England there is a significant football, rugby and cricket culture at least in regards to team sports. Is that as diversified in most other countries. Is football the working man's game in most countries. I am not referring to alcohol abuse so much as being the problem but the ability to handle wealth. I am sure I have read a study in the states a few years ago that said the lower class the background of a sporting star, the higher the risk that that wealth will be squandered away quickly. Yes I know it takes a lot of alcohol to squander away a multi million pound salary. That study emphasized boxing and basketball.