The Politics Thread

[Worthy4England]

Wheres choice fit in here for one?
I have no say in where a few tank topped bearded weird socialists and man hating lesbos spend my taxes do I? No, you picked some bum boys from the Bullingdon Club. Anyone got a spare chair leg and half a pound of margerine?
Do I want billions spent in overseas wars in places we have no buisiness to be? As a stauch campaigner of CND, I can understand your abhorrence
Why should the NHS treat druggies because they are spineless weak willed wasters who choose their poisen no one forces them same with alco's? Many of the alcos are "middle class" and drink white wine...I suspect they contribute plenty
Why should I support some silly bitch and her sprogg because after a couple of tinnies she couldn't keep her legs shut or at least use the pill or johnnies? Most of them don't vote, so have to be supported by either party. Underclasses have a long history of illigitimate sprogs to the ruling classes
Why should I pay for shitty oiks education when all they wanna do is march and trash peoples property then complain about police treatment? Well let's face it, if we'd paid for yours, we'd probably be having a much more intelligent conversation right now
Why is my money freely given to "poor" overseas countries who do little to halt the advance of those who hate everything I've got?because we get interest payments from it long term...it's why the Empire existed

If this is the "Big Society" that you and others want then at least do the decent thing and allow a referendum to decide if we all want to join you and the communist party of GB!!!!!!

Feckin bullets look better by the day

Sorry I forgot to add about leaving the countrys front door open unlocked so all the vagabonds can nip in and rob us blind!!!!!

[Hoboh]

"No, you picked some bum boys from the Bullingdon Club. Anyone got a spare chair leg and half a pound of margerine"

Why do you assume I'm a tory? I used to be Labour untill after finishing my apprenticeship when I found out the labour party paymasters would do anything to stop you making extra bonus and started telling you if you could or could not work overtime. Crunch time came when the redundancys came through and the sitting MP turned up at a meeting, attacked the Tories but did feck all to say how he was going to help any of us, just his platform for a political speech, feckin tool!!!

"Many of the alcos are "middle class" and drink white wine...I suspect they contribute plenty"

Even Middle class alco's cannot contribute owt if they are blind drunk! In fact I suspect these people cost more in social upheaval and finance than hoodie scrotes, do behave yourself

"Underclasses have a long history of illigitimate sprogs to the ruling classes"

Good God man I know Vicky was on the throne a good while but shes well gone


"because we get interest payments from it long term...it's why the Empire existed"

Really! So all the "debt" that Brown was keen to "write off" earned us interest? Loans are not the same as freebie Aid btw, sometimes they can be a part but usually "Aid" is a direct cash giveaway or cash and services.
Is Pakistans "interest" paid by training radicals from here and exporting us people and terrorists?

"Well let's face it, if we'd paid for yours, we'd probably be having a much more intelligent conversation right now"

I went to school, I served an apprenticeship on a lot lower wages than most of my mates and feckin struggled to do the things they got up too then what happens? Time served I'm roping in a good income and the jealous gits moan about my pay! Sounds like the young idealists around now demanding free education at uni, spending all their time drinking, nobbing and rioting, then moaning when a few who actually study earn big brass! Then they blame "the system" which are you Worthy?

[Worthy4England]

[quote="Hoboh"]"No, you picked some bum boys from the Bullingdon Club. Anyone got a spare chair leg and half a pound of margerine"

Why do you assume I'm a tory? I used to be Labour untill after finishing my apprenticeship when I found out the labour party paymasters would do anything to stop you making extra bonus and started telling you if you could or could not work overtime. Crunch time came when the redundancys came through and the sitting MP turned up at a meeting, attacked the Tories but did feck all to say how he was going to help any of us, just his platform for a political speech, feckin tool!!!



So when were these redundancies then? Under a Labour government that's generally supported employment, or under a Tory Government that generally didn't, because they saw unemployment as a foil against wage increases? The overtime argument is always an interesting one. Should you support a fair day's pay for a fair day's work, in which case you'd probably be against overtime in principle. Should you suggest that if we stopped overtime, more people would be employed? Or should you support the people that already have jobs, in working all the overtime they wish to, because it improves their standard of living? Tricky one. Personally, I'd stop overtime.

"Many of the alcos are "middle class" and drink white wine...I suspect they contribute plenty"

Even Middle class alco's cannot contribute owt if they are blind drunk! In fact I suspect these people cost more in social upheaval and finance than hoodie scrotes, do behave yourself

I'm not sure that "blind drunk" is the major problem. Functioning alcoholics cause a huge drain...
"Underclasses have a long history of illigitimate sprogs to the ruling classes"

Good God man I know Vicky was on the throne a good while but shes well gone

You don't have to go anywhere near that far back. I think you only have to go back to "the return to family values", to find a fairly comprehensive list of people that had to 'fess up that they weren't following them either, including the architect of the policy, one Mr John Major. Oh, then there was Cecil...

"because we get interest payments from it long term...it's why the Empire existed"

Really! So all the "debt" that Brown was keen to "write off" earned us interest? Loans are not the same as freebie Aid btw, sometimes they can be a part but usually "Aid" is a direct cash giveaway or cash and services.
Is Pakistans "interest" paid by training radicals from here and exporting us people and terrorists?

Ok, lets look at aid then. Bilateral trade with Pakistan by 2015 estimated at £2.5 billion. Aid given in 2009/10 £140m. One third of which was humanitarian, in relation to the floods. The Government is looking to give them more cash to spend on education. If (and it's a bif IF) that helps with the undoubted fundamentalism problem, then it's money well spent. I wonder if there's any connection with the level of trade we are hoping to do, and the aid that is given. I expect the two aren't connected at all....
"Well let's face it, if we'd paid for yours, we'd probably be having a much more intelligent conversation right now"

I went to school, I served an apprenticeship on a lot lower wages than most of my mates and feckin struggled to do the things they got up too then what happens? Time served I'm roping in a good income and the jealous gits moan about my pay! Sounds like the young idealists around now demanding free education at uni, spending all their time drinking, nobbing and rioting, then moaning when a few who actually study earn big brass! Then they blame "the system" which are you Worthy?

I'm in the left school at 16 group. Went back to Uni at 29. Possibly earn "big brass" although the definition isn't clear. Still support the concept of free education - the more people we get paying top rates of tax, the better it gets. That said, the range of courses we offer in "shite" needs a rethink.

[thebish]

Hoboh - you raise the issue of written off international debt, suggesting that it was not paid back.

do you understand the first thing about that - or are we wiser simply to treat it as a general vituperative ignorant swipe at something you don't understand and ignore it? (I'm leaning towards the latter but don't want to presume ignorance..)

[thebish]

we're all in this together...

oh - and last year, boardroom pay in Britain’s top 350 companies increased 45%

[Bruce Rioja]

we're all in this together...

oh - and last year, boardroom pay in Britain’s top 350 companies increased 45%

All post General Election, no doubt!

[thebish]

we're all in this together...

oh - and last year, boardroom pay in Britain’s top 350 companies increased 45%

All post General Election, no doubt!

if you say so...

[BWFC_Insane]

One of David Cameron’s most senior health advisers told a conference of health executives that the NHS will be privatised, advising representatives from healthcare companies of an impending goldrush in the wake of Andrew Lansley’s health reforms.

Mark Britnell was NHS director general for commissioning and system management before joining the private sector as global head of health at KPMG. He was recently appointed to a new panel of senior health policy experts by David Cameron, attending their first meeting last week.

According to the public relations industry monitoring site Spinwatch Britnell did not mince his words on privatisation when addressing a seminar called “Reform Revolution” at a conference for healthcare corporations:

“In future, the NHS will be a state insurance provider not a state deliverer.”

Delegates had been told the conference, run by $20 billion private equity firm Apax Partners, would cover ”business opportunities post global healthcare reform.” Britnell delivered the good, offering this deliciously off-message sound bite:

“The NHS will be shown no mercy and the best time to take advantage of this will be in the next couple of years.”

Surprise Surprise. And the only person who can stop Cameron and his motley crew from destroying this country piece by piece (they're already well along the way) is Clegg.

Oh shit!

Just what the hell is up with you BWFCI? You seem to be on a one man crusade against any private company that makes proffits or are you a closet commie?

Tax and public funding = Good?

charging and proffit = bad?

Wheres choice fit in here for one?
I have no say in where a few tank topped bearded weird socialists and man hating lesbos spend my taxes do I?
Do I want billions spent in overseas wars in places we have no buisiness to be?
Why should the NHS treat druggies because they are spineless weak willed wasters who choose their poisen no one forces them same with alco's?
Why should I support some silly bitch and her sprogg because after a couple of tinnies she couldn't keep her legs shut or at least use the pill or johnnies?
Why should I pay for shitty oiks education when all they wanna do is march and trash peoples property then complain about police treatment?
Why is my money freely given to "poor" overseas countries who do little to halt the advance of those who hate everything I've got?

If this is the "Big Society" that you and others want then at least do the decent thing and allow a referendum to decide if we all want to join you and the communist party of GB!!!!!!

Feckin bullets look better by the day

Sorry I forgot to add about leaving the countrys front door open unlocked so all the vagabonds can nip in and rob us blind!!!!!

Lets take a scenario, if your child or wife is critically ill in hospital, do you want the decision about treatment to be based on "profit" and how much you can afford and whether their life is "worth it".

Or do you want it based on the best clinical care possible to give them the best chance of survival and a normal life!

I'm dead against Private Companies and healthcare unless its someones choice to go down that route. I believe as a country we should have a proper free health service that is not driven by the market or by private interest. I understand that we don't exactly have that now, but the new measures are a step in the wrong direction for me.

I only want my GP to think about what my diagnosis is, not to be thinking about how much money it will cost his consortium to send me to a consultant!

[Hoboh]

One of David Cameron’s most senior health advisers told a conference of health executives that the NHS will be privatised, advising representatives from healthcare companies of an impending goldrush in the wake of Andrew Lansley’s health reforms.

Mark Britnell was NHS director general for commissioning and system management before joining the private sector as global head of health at KPMG. He was recently appointed to a new panel of senior health policy experts by David Cameron, attending their first meeting last week.

According to the public relations industry monitoring site Spinwatch Britnell did not mince his words on privatisation when addressing a seminar called “Reform Revolution” at a conference for healthcare corporations:

“In future, the NHS will be a state insurance provider not a state deliverer.”

Delegates had been told the conference, run by $20 billion private equity firm Apax Partners, would cover ”business opportunities post global healthcare reform.” Britnell delivered the good, offering this deliciously off-message sound bite:

“The NHS will be shown no mercy and the best time to take advantage of this will be in the next couple of years.”

Surprise Surprise. And the only person who can stop Cameron and his motley crew from destroying this country piece by piece (they're already well along the way) is Clegg.

Oh shit!

Just what the hell is up with you BWFCI? You seem to be on a one man crusade against any private company that makes proffits or are you a closet commie?

Tax and public funding = Good?

charging and proffit = bad?

Wheres choice fit in here for one?
I have no say in where a few tank topped bearded weird socialists and man hating lesbos spend my taxes do I?
Do I want billions spent in overseas wars in places we have no buisiness to be?
Why should the NHS treat druggies because they are spineless weak willed wasters who choose their poisen no one forces them same with alco's?
Why should I support some silly bitch and her sprogg because after a couple of tinnies she couldn't keep her legs shut or at least use the pill or johnnies?
Why should I pay for shitty oiks education when all they wanna do is march and trash peoples property then complain about police treatment?
Why is my money freely given to "poor" overseas countries who do little to halt the advance of those who hate everything I've got?

If this is the "Big Society" that you and others want then at least do the decent thing and allow a referendum to decide if we all want to join you and the communist party of GB!!!!!!

Feckin bullets look better by the day

Sorry I forgot to add about leaving the countrys front door open unlocked so all the vagabonds can nip in and rob us blind!!!!!

Lets take a scenario, if your child or wife is critically ill in hospital, do you want the decision about treatment to be based on "profit" and how much you can afford and whether their life is "worth it".

Or do you want it based on the best clinical care possible to give them the best chance of survival and a normal life!

I'm dead against Private Companies and healthcare unless its someones choice to go down that route. I believe as a country we should have a proper free health service that is not driven by the market or by private interest. I understand that we don't exactly have that now, but the new measures are a step in the wrong direction for me.

I only want my GP to think about what my diagnosis is, not to be thinking about how much money it will cost his consortium to send me to a consultant!

You see there you go again with public is good, private is bad!!!!
Most people for years realised that public services were overstaffed, inefficient and quite frankly not delivering what it said on the tin, Yes some private companies are not exactly scrupulous but to talk about them as if they are a living evil entity is plain wrong, big brother public organizations have screwed up health, education, defence for years how many publicly backed projects really take the mickey with overspends? A private company screws up and the share holders will replace those at the top, if they don't you usually find its the big pension fund investors that continue to support them, yep you know the union/public pension funds along with the very rich Church investment groups that are the goodies in all this.
Can you for one minute imagine the highly successful National Lottery would have worked letting public bodies run it? There are certain things even I think should be under public control but run as independant free market companies to stop political interference such as Gas, Electricity, water because these are in the basic national interest, heath provision should be a mixture of both!

[BWFC_Insane]

You see there you go again with public is good, private is bad!!!!
Most people for years realised that public services were overstaffed, inefficient and quite frankly not delivering what it said on the tin, Yes some private companies are not exactly scrupulous but to talk about them as if they are a living evil entity is plain wrong, big brother public organizations have screwed up health, education, defence for years how many publicly backed projects really take the mickey with overspends? A private company screws up and the share holders will replace those at the top, if they don't you usually find its the big pension fund investors that continue to support them, yep you know the union/public pension funds along with the very rich Church investment groups that are the goodies in all this.
Can you for one minute imagine the highly successful National Lottery would have worked letting public bodies run it? There are certain things even I think should be under public control but run as independant free market companies to stop political interference such as Gas, Electricity, water because these are in the basic national interest, heath provision should be a mixture of both!

The trouble is Hoboh that the NHS whilst possibly not as efficient as it could be has been running pretty well for the past decade. Its provided increasing service, lower waiting lists and better clinical outcomes.

So to suggest that "public organisations" have screwed it up is simply untrue.

I've no real problem with the private sector either, I use their companies as much as anyone else. And some of those companies are fantastic and offer superb service.

I just fundamentally disagree with the NHS being run at a profit for profit making organisations. It just goes against everything I believe in.

I think you are disproportionately angry about public services. I imagine you'll be first in the queue to start ranting when the energy and petrol companies don't lower their rates when oil prices go down. But on the other hand will be extolling the virtues of a privately run NHS because those profit making organisations will never screw us over will they? Currently the worst they can do is take a more cash from us than they should to boost their profits. I'd hate to see what the uproar would be if those companies decide "Sorry folks but providing social health care for your elderly relatives just ain't cost efficient, you'll have to do it youselves, or have a word with that nice David bloke, heard him say something about a "big society" or some such. Apparently some losers think they'll persuade folk to do all this for free!"

[Bruce Rioja]

The trouble is Hoboh that the NHS whilst possibly not as efficient as it could be has been running pretty well for the past decade. Its provided increasing service, lower waiting lists and better clinical outcomes.

And is now the world's, that's THE WORLD'S third largest employer. "Possibly not as efficient as it could be"?

[BWFC_Insane]

The trouble is Hoboh that the NHS whilst possibly not as efficient as it could be has been running pretty well for the past decade. Its provided increasing service, lower waiting lists and better clinical outcomes.

And is now the world's, that's THE WORLD'S third largest employer. "Possibly not as efficient as it could be"?

Aye but most of the services it runs you probably take for granted. Being able to pitch up off the street to an emergency health centre somewhere anytime virtually to see a nurse or a doctor. Community nurses looking after elderly, sick and vulnerable people that otherwise would place a higher bill on society or be left to fester. A&E departments where no matter what you've done if its serious then you're in and sorted, no questions (well apart from who shot you?) asked!

If someone said to me "you can have all that but there be a bit of bloating in the system" then I'll take it.

Forget staff and managers and everything else, what costs the NHS most is the ageing population. Its a bit of a catch 22 people are being kept alive longer so they end up costing more. That along with the ever expanding treatments that are discovered that folk demand, (lifesaving and otherwise) is why there is a funding gap between what the NHS needs and what is happening. I read somewhere that if you got rid of every manager/accountant etc in the NHS and only had doctors and nurses you'd still be in deficit due to the increasing expectations of the population and the burden of care. So yes there are efficiencies I'm sure it can make. But ultimately there have been points in the past when private sector consultants have been brought in to try and "sort it out" and "balance the books" and they haven't been able to simply because of the complexities of having to continue providing healthcare services to the population and maintaining quality standards all the time.

I don't think being the third biggest employer in the world is in essence a bad thing either, take those jobs out and look at the social welfare bill we'd have. And thats not to mention all the contracts that are held with private companies that if you really want to slim down would be the first things to go, meaning more and more jobs to go!

[William the White]

The trouble is Hoboh that the NHS whilst possibly not as efficient as it could be has been running pretty well for the past decade. Its provided increasing service, lower waiting lists and better clinical outcomes.

And is now the world's, that's THE WORLD'S third largest employer. "Possibly not as efficient as it could be"?

Source, please?

[Lord Kangana]

The only question I have is that if the current service is unsustainable because of its inefficiency, why will privatisation make it any more affordable or efficient without having an added cost?

Surely if it could be simply remedied by just making it more efficient it would be, no?

[Bruce Rioja]

The trouble is Hoboh that the NHS whilst possibly not as efficient as it could be has been running pretty well for the past decade. Its provided increasing service, lower waiting lists and better clinical outcomes.

And is now the world's, that's THE WORLD'S third largest employer. "Possibly not as efficient as it could be"?

Source, please?

Pay me, I might tell you!

[William the White]

The trouble is Hoboh that the NHS whilst possibly not as efficient as it could be has been running pretty well for the past decade. Its provided increasing service, lower waiting lists and better clinical outcomes.

And is now the world's, that's THE WORLD'S third largest employer. "Possibly not as efficient as it could be"?

Source, please?

Pay me, I might tell you!

Such a tease for us all...

Go on, admit it, you fibbed...

[Prufrock]

It's one of those oft quoted 'facts'. Not that that makes it true or not, but if it isn't, it isn't Brucie doing the making up. Chinese Army, Indian Railway Company, NHS.

[Lord Kangana]

So how many people does it directly employ?

Anyway, I'm sure the US military is right up there.

[William the White]

It's one of those oft quoted 'facts'. Not that that makes it true or not, but if it isn't, it isn't Brucie doing the making up. Chinese Army, Indian Railway Company, NHS.

Not at all, he's going to provide the source...

[William the White]

So how many people does it directly employ?

Anyway, I'm sure the US military is right up there.

Bruce is going to show the NHS employs more, all we need to do is wait... so... sssshhh...