The Politics Thread

[Beefheart]

Doesn't the whole world just owe China money? I reckon we should all just agree not to repay our debts to them, and can just start it all over again. Forget credit ratings!

[Lord Kangana]

As for the New Deal, well the resoning was very much " if we're screwed, we're going down anyway, and cutting won't help that, so why not spend on the off chance it'll work?".

With respect, I don't think that's right.

That was the era of "all we have to fear is fear itself".

Which is to say that their problems were mainly cyclical/confidence based, and the fundamentals were ok.

I don't want to be excessively bearish, but I do we think have more to fear than fear itself.

All the indicators were worse than we have now (such as much higher unemployment, lower income tax receipts, massive percentage losses off the stock market, greater inflationary pressures and so on..).

Roosevelt's reasoning was very much based in hindsight, but his comments were very much that he believed the need for the economic stimulus of WW11 to be unnecessary, if they had acted more decisively, with greater force and at a much greater speed.

And given that industry is a much lower % of our economy, and America's for that matter, than it was and with Chinese output falling, I would say one area for capital investment and potential growth is screaming out.

We haven't faced an economic crisis in the West like this since the thirties. I think it would be a little premature to dismiss the lessons that were learned then. Admittedly they may need to be adapted to our own particular circumstance, but its clear that simply cutting alone will not stimulate growth.

[Lord Kangana]

The Euro was always going to have to confront the problems of having a single currency within states of hugely differing wealth. Now, with all those other trifling global matters it's fecking Armageddon. !

Its unlike you to do you research Pru.

The German politicians are busyily happy about bailing out the Euro because the very things you see as a weakness have actually worked as a strength for them. They've managed to supress wages for some time over in Germany, which has been trumpeted at length by the right over here. What they won't go on to mention is that their being wedded to basket case economies has actually allowed them to do this and still maintain their standard of living, because the Euro keeps their exports cheap. Theres always a pay off...

Which should lead you to some other questions, such as:

If the Eurozone is so much bigger than Sterling (for example) wouldn't that mean that any bailout package would be also commensurately larger and commensurately painful in orders of magnitude? Isn't it basically just the same thing as us helping to bail Ireland out?

Why is the Euro still considered a far better bet as a reserve currency than, say, Sterling (you know, the one from the country that most definitely shouldn't be in the Euro and is very self congratulatory about it)? Why is Sterling still so weak if we're right and they're wrong?

What would the actual, physical, practical, concrete effects be of trying to dissolve the eurozone? How could this be achieved without being in a truckload more trouble than we're already in?

Be careful who you're listening to

[Prufrock]

I never said I thought the eurozone, or even the euro, were bad ideas. Until the credit crunch I was all for us joining up, though for obvious reasons it would be a pretty dick move right now. That doesn't mean there weren't, or aren't problems. German economic savvy aside, balancing out that wealth deficit was always going to be a tough sell in the richer countries. Eventually it had to happen, because long-term, the only way any of us, Germany included, can compete with the likes of China, India, Brazil, is with European co-operation. Unfortunately a whole truck load of other economic shoite has landed from various different sources, and we're all f*cked.

I said it about ten pages, and somebody else has said it on here. Everybody, basically, owes China fook loads. So scrap it all. Go back to the year dot. China would very soon be the top economy anyway, so they'd be happy, and everyone else can go back to living within their means. Or something.

And 'it's unlike you to do you research Pru'? Ow. Typo ?

[Lord Kangana]

Don't blame me, I just copied and pasted it from Mervyn King's email.

[Prufrock]

Anyway, Palestine business is interesting, if pointless. Someone needs to bang their heads together, point out that the only solution involves a Palestinian state, so can they please stop cocking about whilst people die/live in tents and sort the cocking thing out. That someone should be America, but for some strange reason they never seem to do so. That Palestine isn't recognised is one thing, that it has less 'privileges' than the Vatican is a joke.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Anyway, Palestine business is interesting, if pointless. Someone needs to bang their heads together, point out that the only solution involves a Palestinian state, so can they please stop cocking about whilst people die/live in tents and sort the cocking thing out.

Right, job done - next!

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Just catching up with last night's Question Time (rock and roll Friday evening? Bugger off, it's been a hard week...)

Priti Patel joins my list of dreadful female Conservative MPs (headed up by Louise Mensch(née Bagshaw) and Nadine Dorries).

Anyway, they were debating the Basildon gypsy issue, and the fact that the Local Authority has apparently spent £18million to move them on.

I'm always genuinely baffled by the political correctness that says 'the travelling community' pursue a valid way of life that needs to be catered for with the provision of sites etc. and is deserving of recognition and protection as an ethnic group in its own right.

[Lord Kangana]

Call 'em gypos if you like.

I'm not sure what that will change though?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Well I'm not that exercised by the terminology - I just don't understand why it's valued as a way of life that should be not just protected but actively facilitated.

[Lord Kangana]

It makes me feel old putting this, but..

I'm sure the bish will argue about historical context, and I personally have a lot of time for this argument, as most tyrannies start with incremental creep, but in the early nineties (you might not remember this bit!) every other day there seemed to be a story about travellers (along with kids killing each other, broken britain, the collapse of our currency...Tory government you see ) and some serious disputes that arose, leading to violence etc. I believe most of the laws we have were simply enacted from a practical point of view.

In short, they've tried dealing with them in lots of other ways, this was the compromise that just about managed to appease all parties most of the time.

[thebish]

I'm sure the bish will argue about historical context,

I'm not!

[Lord Kangana]

I bet you do if this carries on much longer!

[thebish]

I bet you do if this carries on much longer!

I'm resisting rising to mummy's bait...

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I bet you do if this carries on much longer!

I'm resisting rising to mummy's bait...

Oh go on!

LK's answer was interesting.

[Hoboh]

BULLDOZERS!

[Lord Kangana]

I think thats as close as you'll get to me and mummy agreeing. Ish.

There'll be consensus next on how we can sort the economy.

The IMF, World Bank and UN can go f*ck themselves and should hand over to The Wanderer as far as I'm concerned.

[Hoboh]

I think thats as close as you'll get to me and mummy agreeing. Ish.

There'll be consensus next on how we can sort the economy.

The IMF, World Bank and UN can go f*ck themselves and should hand over to The Wanderer as far as I'm concerned.

wtf would I do with the UN?

[Lord Kangana]

I'm afraid this site has mods hoboh.

[William the White]

Well I'm not that exercised by the terminology - I just don't understand why it's valued as a way of life that should be not just protected but actively facilitated.

Sorry - late to this... We have travelling communities - your proposals are?