Coyle - Time to go? [post-Everton]

[thebish]

Thing is for me, movement, keeping posession, are the LEAST of our troubles.

What we need to sort out first is defending, keeping clean sheets, stopping teams scoring from set pieces against us, and becoming a tight, drilled organised unit.

We're not good enough to play our way out of this. We are good enough (IMO) to scrap ourselves out.

keeping the ball helps at least a little bit with the not conceding! they are not all mutually exclusive!

[BWFC_Insane]

Thing is for me, movement, keeping posession, are the LEAST of our troubles.

What we need to sort out first is defending, keeping clean sheets, stopping teams scoring from set pieces against us, and becoming a tight, drilled organised unit.

We're not good enough to play our way out of this. We are good enough (IMO) to scrap ourselves out.

keeping the ball helps at least a little bit with the not conceding! they are not all mutually exclusive!

Agreed but we shouldn't be focussing on that. We should work on getting behind the ball, keeping shape and being disciplined from set pieces.

We shouldn't be worrying about posession but when we get the ball, we should be trying to work set pieces to try and sneak a goal for ourselves. I guess its a mentality thing I'm talking about.

Dogs of war, even if it means hoofing it 50 yards and Davies backing into defenders...we need to get ugly IMO to get ourselves out of the position we're in!

[Owen_Coyle]

Thing is for me, movement, keeping posession, are the LEAST of our troubles.

What we need to sort out first is defending, keeping clean sheets, stopping teams scoring from set pieces against us, and becoming a tight, drilled organised unit.

We're not good enough to play our way out of this. We are good enough (IMO) to scrap ourselves out.

keeping the ball helps at least a little bit with the not conceding! they are not all mutually exclusive!

I'm afraid I don't agree with that Insane. If we have the ball and keep the ball and, as others have said, we have better movement towards the ball and NOT 50 yards away from it, then we wouldn't have to hoof it 50 yards to Davies and (normally) lose it.

Of course I'm not saying that possession guarantees anything but if we have the ball then (hopefully) we don't have to do as much defending, and get many bodies behind the ball as you advocate.

Football is not a precise science but if we have the ball then (barring a total feck-up) the opposition won't score.

[BWFC_Insane]

Thing is for me, movement, keeping posession, are the LEAST of our troubles.

What we need to sort out first is defending, keeping clean sheets, stopping teams scoring from set pieces against us, and becoming a tight, drilled organised unit.

We're not good enough to play our way out of this. We are good enough (IMO) to scrap ourselves out.

keeping the ball helps at least a little bit with the not conceding! they are not all mutually exclusive!

I'm afraid I don't agree with that Insane. If we have the ball and keep the ball and, as others have said, we have better movement towards the ball and NOT 50 yards away from it, then we wouldn't have to hoof it 50 yards to Davies and (normally) lose it.

Of course I'm not saying that possession guarantees anything but if we have the ball then (hopefully) we don't have to do as much defending, and get many bodies behind the ball as you advocate.

Football is not a precise science but if we have the ball then (barring a total feck-up) the opposition won't score.

I don't disagree. But we're just not good enough to play like that, IMO.

Sadly its back to the Allardyce style to get ourselves out of this, if we are going to IMO.

[ChrisC]

Thing is for me, movement, keeping posession, are the LEAST of our troubles.

What we need to sort out first is defending, keeping clean sheets, stopping teams scoring from set pieces against us, and becoming a tight, drilled organised unit.

We're not good enough to play our way out of this. We are good enough (IMO) to scrap ourselves out.

keeping the ball helps at least a little bit with the not conceding! they are not all mutually exclusive!

Agreed but we shouldn't be focussing on that. We should work on getting behind the ball, keeping shape and being disciplined from set pieces.

We shouldn't be worrying about posession but when we get the ball, we should be trying to work set pieces to try and sneak a goal for ourselves. I guess its a mentality thing I'm talking about.

Dogs of war, even if it means hoofing it 50 yards and Davies backing into defenders...we need to get ugly IMO to get ourselves out of the position we're in!

Doesn't work any more IMO.. Davies is spent in the prem now IMO. A lot of teams have him marked and muscled out of games. Even when he does win a ball he is shot down by refs and gives the other team a free kick or the ball goes to the opposition keeper.

Like already said we need to keep the ball more.. I'm sick of seeing Jussi hoof it up to Davo all game only for it to come straight back.. most games I have watched at home this season we have hoofed the ball upto Davo with no result, but when we actually get it down and play we have opened teams up and we need to do more of that.. just look at the Stoke game for example and the Eagles goal where he dinked it over the keeper after a nice move and first class through ball from Ivan. We got it down very few times against Everton but when we did Klasnic got through on Tim Howard which was probably our clearest chance all game.

Yes the defence needs to sort itself out but if you keep hoofing the ball up the pitch only for the other team to win it back and come on the attack over and over eventually they will get a goal more times than not.. we are constantly on the back foot whilst the opposition is building in confidence.

[Prufrock]

That Ealges goal came from a hoof by Muamba, and Davo winning the nod down. JSL.

[Owen_Coyle]

Fully agree with ChrisC. IMO keeping possession is paramount to us doing something (or being relegated!) at the moment. Although I do tend to share Insane's fear that perhaps (sadly) we are not good enough (or confident enough) on the ball to do this with any regularity. But, we have to strive for that, and only good movement off the ball will make it possible.

Yes, we have to defend better, but surely that problem is magnified greatly because we don't have the ball and, as ChrisC points out, we are constantly on the back foot because of it.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think we don't defend well because we don't do any work on defensive shape. Players have said this at the start of the season.

We're not focussed because Coyle is not an organiser. He's a "lets go out and get at them" manager. And therefore we aren't drilled in defensive focus, shape and strategies.

[Owen_Coyle]

I think we don't defend well because we don't do any work on defensive shape. Players have said this at the start of the season.

We're not focussed because Coyle is not an organiser. He's a "lets go out and get at them" manager. And therefore we aren't drilled in defensive focus, shape and strategies.

I can't comment on that Insane; what Coyle does or doesn't do in training, and what his strategy is.

All I can see is what happens on match day, and defending at times is indeed woeful, but if we are constantly losing the ball then the law of averages means that the opposition will have even more chances of putting an already under-fire and low-on-confidence defence under pressure.

[ChrisC]

Fully agree with ChrisC. IMO keeping possession is paramount to us doing something (or being relegated!) at the moment. Although I do tend to share Insane's fear that perhaps (sadly) we are not good enough (or confident enough) on the ball to do this with any regularity. But, we have to strive for that, and only good movement off the ball will make it possible.

Yes, we have to defend better, but surely that problem is magnified greatly because we don't have the ball and, as ChrisC points out, we are constantly on the back foot because of it.

Personally I think we do have the ability to play some good stuff and the team is just very low on confidence .. I think they are scared to pass it about in case they lose the ball and the crowd get on there back ...

The only way the hoofball will go is if Davo is benched and Ngog plays with Ivan .. personally I think the team would be better for it and we would also have some pace up top rather than being one dimensional..

We cant keep hoping Davo is going to win the knockdown and that it creates a chance on goal .. we need to start making more chances from our own build up and start stretching teams. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't remember many crosses in the box since we dropped Petrov.. Eagles never seems to want to beat a man and would rather pass it back or inside to someone. I think Stoke was the only game he was happy to take on his man and that was because it was Huth playing there.

[Tombwfc]

I think we don't defend well because we don't do any work on defensive shape. Players have said this at the start of the season.

We're not focussed because Coyle is not an organiser. He's a "lets go out and get at them" manager. And therefore we aren't drilled in defensive focus, shape and strategies.

That assumption isn't based off Davies and Ricketts on Goals on Sunday was it?

[Owen_Coyle]

Personally I think we do have the ability to play some good stuff and the team is just very low on confidence .. I think they are scared to pass it about in case they lose the ball and the crowd get on there back ...

Yes I agree that we have the ability to play it around but, as you point out, we are low on confidence and we have to get into the mindset of looking for that pass when we get the ball.

But there is much more onus on the people NOT on the ball to "show" to receive it. At the moment we tend to run away from the ball in the hope that a miracle 50 yard ball will fall magically at the feet. Or failing that we opt for the failsafe of the hoof up to Davo's head !! And that isn't working now.

[Prufrock]

Swansea have kept six clean sheets this year. That isn't because Ashley Williams is Paulo Maldini. Firstly, they keep the ball, secondly they are organised without. In other words theyhave a plan and are organised with AND without the ball. We need both IMO, and it isn't that hard. I look t the players and I can't see that they are even in the worst 5 teams, but we are deservedly third bottom. That's worrying.

[Owen_Coyle]

Swansea have kept six clean sheets this year. That isn't because Ashley Williams is Paulo Maldini. Firstly, they keep the ball, secondly they are organised without. In other words theyhave a plan and are organised with AND without the ball. We need both IMO, and it isn't that hard. I look t the players and I can't see that they are even in the worst 5 teams, but we are deservedly third bottom. That's worrying.

Correct Pru. I watch all the other teams in the Prem on Sky and they are all able to keep the ball for substantial periods. Yes they are under pressure at times, in varying degrees depending on how good they are at it.

But I'm getting to the stage where I am pleasantly surprised if we put more than 2 successive passes together, cos it is so unlike us. That is not what's required in the Prem and hence we are where we are.

[ChrisC]

Personally I think we do have the ability to play some good stuff and the team is just very low on confidence .. I think they are scared to pass it about in case they lose the ball and the crowd get on there back ...

Yes I agree that we have the ability to play it around but, as you point out, we are low on confidence and we have to get into the mindset of looking for that pass when we get the ball.

But there is much more onus on the people NOT on the ball to "show" to receive it. At the moment we tend to run away from the ball in the hope that a miracle 50 yard ball will fall magically at the feet. Or failing that we opt for the failsafe of the hoof up to Davo's head !! And that isn't working now.

I agree 100% mate .. personally I wouldn't mind seeing Owen try the following ..


------------Jussi-----------

Boyata--Cahill--Shite--Robbo

---------Muamba/RC--------
Eagles----------------Petrov
----------Tuncay-----------

------Ngog-------Klasnic----


Some might not agree but that front 5 are all very comfortable on the ball. Mark Davies I like aswell but goes missing to much IMO. The only person in that team to scare the shit out of me is Zat Shite.. Don't think there is a player as bad on the floor with the ball. So Wheater would be straight in there after his suspension ..

Come January Ricketts should be back and probably someone like Onuoha from City will come in for Cahill.. Maybe somebody in for Robbo.

--------------Jussi--------------

Ricketts--Wheater--Onuoha--Robbo

------------Muamba/RC----------
Eagles---------------------Petrov
-------------Tuncay-----------

--------Ngog-------Klasnic-------

Boyata (rb/cb) if you like..


Not to shabby if you ask me and easily a mid table team even without Chungy and Holden.

[Owen_Coyle]

A bit of good news for a change; Cahill's red card has been rescinded.

Is this a change in fortunes ?

[boltonboris]

A 4-1-5 formation... Now I've seen everything

[a1]

i think ive seen that before, it concedes many many goals, we mustve been playing it recently.

jussi
steinsson zat cahill big paul
kevindavies coker muamba kaka-uta
klasnich
ngog

the olde worlde 4-5-1 / 4-3-3 thing from the past. the formatting on it is wrong , but skd is on the right wing .

or summert.

:/

[thebish]

Swansea have kept six clean sheets this year. That isn't because Ashley Williams is Paulo Maldini. Firstly, they keep the ball, secondly they are organised without. In other words theyhave a plan and are organised with AND without the ball. We need both IMO, and it isn't that hard. I look t the players and I can't see that they are even in the worst 5 teams, but we are deservedly third bottom. That's worrying.

it's worse than that Pru - we're second bottom... a whole point behind Blackburn...

oh how I long for the heady heights of third bottom..

why - when I came to this club we were.......

[ChrisC]

A 4-1-5 formation... Now I've seen everything

What formation would that be? The formation I posted is a 4-1-2-1-2. My post was aimed more at players on the pitch than formation.