The Politics Thread

[Athers]

I think it's a very well balanced budget, economically and politcally.

Agree, little surprise & very much 'on plan'. Although in an ideal world the top tax rate would be back to 40% next month and not the half measure announced, but that's politics.

Noticed the little fiddle with lowering the 40% threshold at just over £40k/year, I'd say those often floating around that level of income often vote Tory, but looks like this move has been brushed over and will be mostly forgotten as acting on the child benefit cliff edge affects the same people.

It's all small beer though for me, moving individuals' tax bills by <£200 a year or so isn't anything like the real issue of the effect of having to cut govt spending.

Only thing I'm looking at scratching my head is keeping the 3p on fuel in August, though maybe he can take that back and score a 'compassionate win' if the Iran / Arab Spring situation pushes the price of crude into space.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I think it's a very well balanced budget, economically and politcally.

Agree, little surprise & very much 'on plan'. Although in an ideal world the top tax rate would be back to 40% next month and not the half measure announced, but that's politics.

I agree and do think that once you factor the extra taxes that are collected from extra production and consumption (such as VAT on spending), a 40% rate probably does raise more than 50%, especially in the medium-longer term.

But I do think the drop to 45% is significant. For a start, it takes us to the same level as Germany and Switzerland, and only 4% above 'socialist' France. Of course that's only part of the overall taxation picture, but it is an important headline figure in the messages it sends out about attitudes to success and rich people.

It's difficult to know what effect these things have - we all, including HMRC, have to guess at the moment, but my feeling is that it's a psychologically important threshold if you know that half of everything you earn over a certain point will be taken away.

[David Lee's Hair]

Knowing 40% of what you earn is taken away is depressing enough...

[BWFC_Insane]

I think it's a very well balanced budget, economically and politcally.

Agree, little surprise & very much 'on plan'. Although in an ideal world the top tax rate would be back to 40% next month and not the half measure announced, but that's politics.

I agree and do think that once you factor the extra taxes that are collected from extra production and consumption (such as VAT on spending), a 40% rate probably does raise more than 50%, especially in the medium-longer term.

But I do think the drop to 45% is significant. For a start, it takes us to the same level as Germany and Switzerland, and only 4% above 'socialist' France. Of course that's only part of the overall taxation picture, but it is an important headline figure in the messages it sends out about attitudes to success and rich people.

It's difficult to know what effect these things have - we all, including HMRC, have to guess at the moment, but my feeling is that it's a psychologically important threshold if you know that half of everything you earn over a certain point will be taken away.

Firstly politically it has completely blown the whole "we're all in it together" claim.

Secondly when we're in difficult times and some of the poorest people in the country are being told they have no jobs anymore, and that their benefits will be reduced and its a pain we ALL have to bear, how the fook can you say "its ok though because we're giving a tax cut to the richest 300,000 people in the UK, but its ok folks, cos from now on we'll try a bit harder to make sure they actually pay tax"

Capitalism is a failed system. It only succeeds now when the state bails the system out when its inherent greed and corrputness causes it to hit the buffers. We're doing that once again. And once again we're protecting the richest people from the pain because well "it will stimulate the economy and encourage success". Bollocks it will. It will allow the two tier system to become even more pronounced. Along with regionalising pay in the public sector. Its an attack on the poor. An attack on the North.

And everyone knows it. They're just scared to say because they're the fools who voted the Eton set in, and will do again because they're too scared to actually stop, look at themselves and society and accept that some hard choices need to be made.

[David Lee's Hair]

Capitalism is a failed system.

The alternative being?

[BWFC_Insane]

Capitalism is a failed system.

The alternative being?

There are a multitude of alternatives that have been proposed. Realism suggests that there is no magic reset button to just simply and completely switch tracks.

But you can still work within a failed system to make things fairer, more equitable and to persuade/force organisations, people, governments to do the right thing.

Ethical Capitalism is a term I've heard bandied about by economists who are realistic enough to accept we're not going to switch tracks to some sort of socialist worker lead economy, but also brave enough to suggest what we have now a) isn't equitable, fair or even progressive b) doesn't actually work very well in its current form.

The Tories are going farther and farther away from what seems "ethical or fair" IMO, with regionalising pay, providing tax reductions for the richest, and reducing corporation tax. If we want the trailer parks of the USA then keep heading down this road.

[Hoboh]

Capitalism is a failed system.

The alternative being?

There are a multitude of alternatives that have been proposed. Realism suggests that there is no magic reset button to just simply and completely switch tracks.

But you can still work within a failed system to make things fairer, more equitable and to persuade/force organisations, people, governments to do the right thing.

Ethical Capitalism is a term I've heard bandied about by economists who are realistic enough to accept we're not going to switch tracks to some sort of socialist worker lead economy, but also brave enough to suggest what we have now a) isn't equitable, fair or even progressive b) doesn't actually work very well in its current form.

The Tories are going farther and farther away from what seems "ethical or fair" IMO, with regionalising pay, providing tax reductions for the richest, and reducing corporation tax. If we want the trailer parks of the USA then keep heading down this road.

Look the sooner everyone excepts there always will be folk at the top, in the middle and at the bottom it would be a start. The trick is to fuel aspirations of those in the middle and at the bottom to move up and better theirselves and improve their life style drastically not get hammered when they get there. There never has been any type of system that has been different to this, anywhere, except in theory.
On the OAP'S I don't like it at all you should be allowed to enjoy your latter days in peace, untill we put our own house in order we should stop meddling abroad through military or overseas aid, it is worrying when something like pulling out of Afghanistan will save by admission £3.4 billion pound and before you crack on about political party's who took us in there? don't loose sight of the fact 25% of a million is a whole lot more than 25% of 250 quid but the tax burden would be the same whilst people enjoy a better living and more important have more to actually spend creating more employment.

[David Lee's Hair]

Its interesting that you bring ethical capitalsim up as I would argue that the most ethically capitalist government legislation in the last 10 years are the controls the current government put on the banks.

[Lord Kangana]

Its unfortunate that it locks you out when you write Pen ic i ill in, but you know, before that there was probably leeches to treat things. They didn't work, that we hadn't yet discovered the viable alternative didn't affirm their use as a medicine. For example.

[David Lee's Hair]

They still use leeches and maggots in clinical medicine now.

[The Axman]

They still use leeches and maggots in clinical medicine now.

They've reverted to best practice. For a long time they didn't use leeches and maggots.
Politics is in the phase where they ain't using the maggots, but they've got a lot of leeches.

[David Lee's Hair]

They still use leeches and maggots in clinical medicine now.

They've reverted to best practice. For a long time they didn't use leeches and maggots.
Politics is in the phase where they ain't using the maggots, but they've got a lot of leeches.

Politics has always been that way hasn't it?

[The Axman]

I dunno. I'm only 57.

[Lord Kangana]

They still use leeches and maggots in clinical medicine now.

Not to treat internal bacterial infections they don't.

[Prufrock]

Feck that, they've put 20% on pasties. Cornwall has gone mental. I sh*t you not, they're in serious discussions about a 20,000 strong march on Whitehall!

[Worthy4England]

Feck that, they've put 20% on pasties. Cornwall has gone mental. I sh*t you not, they're in serious discussions about a 20,000 strong march on Whitehall!

They must've put that on pies from Wigan too.

Every week about half-time, 5,000 of them march out of whatever ground they're in.

[Worthy4England]

I've never liked the idea of helping out the very best off, they don't fecking need it. They should be helping out the rest of us.

So you don't think people earning lots of money actually pay lots of tax too?

Sure there's some talk that people that own businesses pay themselves into offshores etc. and pay a very low overall rate of tax. I'd really like those loopholes closed, thanks.

Most people who aren't self employed have little choice but to pay up and look happy.

Someone on £200,000 was paying £84,000 in Tax and NI...That would reduce by £2,500? I think, how much help do you believe one person be obliged to give?

Remind me again, who you think is helping who here?

[Lord Kangana]

Meet the new boss.

Same as the old boss.

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

50%/Mansion taxes/avoidance measures blah blah blah - Dissembling and smoke and mirrors.The fact of the matter is thatcapitalism inevitably results in boom and bust. Capitalists,economists and bankers know this so they try, as individuals to
amass as much wealth as possible during the boom to insulate against the inevitable bust.
This either means or results in high prices, low wages and inflation and unemployment. Another fact is
the poor did not cause this deficit. They do not have the means to create or insulate against the bust. Yet this government expects
the poor to bear a disproportionate and unjust share of the debt.
Tax the £7 billion the bankers awarded themselves at 90%.
Remove the 50% tax band. Replace it with 70%.
And if the bankers don’t like it and go abroad, then tell them leave your passport and don’t slam the door on the way out.

[BWFC_Insane]

50%/Mansion taxes/avoidance measures blah blah blah - Dissembling and smoke and mirrors.The fact of the matter is thatcapitalism inevitably results in boom and bust. Capitalists,economists and bankers know this so they try, as individuals to
amass as much wealth as possible during the boom to insulate against the inevitable bust.
This either means or results in high prices, low wages and inflation and unemployment. Another fact is
the poor did not cause this deficit. They do not have the means to create or insulate against the bust. Yet this government expects
the poor to bear a disproportionate and unjust share of the debt.
Tax the £7 billion the bankers awarded themselves at 90%.
Remove the 50% tax band. Replace it with 70%.
And if the bankers don’t like it and go abroad, then tell them leave your passport and don’t slam the door on the way out.

This.