Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?
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Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?
The same bloke who then opted never to play him?SmokinFrazier wrote:Miyachi was a good player for us until the Muamba incident. I remember him looking terrified on the pitch and after that moment, he really struggled. It's easy for us to say "he's on x amount a week, it shouldn't make a difference" but his form before and after that Tottenham game was drastically different. Go back and look at the match day threads, and you'll see everyone wanting him to play. He started slow, played well and after the Muamba collapse, went off the boil again.
I think he's got the potential to be a really good player though. He had a few niggling injuries for us and there's obviously a mental issue, but he's talented.
Speaking of our former loan players, Nixon was on Twitter saying "Rodrigo scored four for the Spain U21s. Who brought him in?" and he's right, Rodrigo was a good player in the few occasions we saw him. When someone mentioned N'Gog and Sordell, who we actually bought though, Nixon threw a paddy. If all our signings were as good as our loan players, we'd have a far better team.
I liked Ryo, although I don't think Muamba had anything to do with his loss of form. Everybody over-hyped him when he first came in and then all decided he was irredeemably shite four games later. He was a 19-year-old kid with 12 senior games to his name (all in another country), being asked to save a useless team.
Scott Sinclair had any number of mediocre loan spells while at Chelsea when it looked like it was never going to happen for him. I could see the same happening with Miyaichi.
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Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?
Surely it has to be easier to try and spot a decent loanee from Chelsea, Arsenal and City, than from West Brom, Stoke and Wigan? You're getting the benefit of their scouting systems.SmokinFrazier wrote:Miyachi was a good player for us until the Muamba incident. I remember him looking terrified on the pitch and after that moment, he really struggled. It's easy for us to say "he's on x amount a week, it shouldn't make a difference" but his form before and after that Tottenham game was drastically different. Go back and look at the match day threads, and you'll see everyone wanting him to play. He started slow, played well and after the Muamba collapse, went off the boil again.
I think he's got the potential to be a really good player though. He had a few niggling injuries for us and there's obviously a mental issue, but he's talented.
Speaking of our former loan players, Nixon was on Twitter saying "Rodrigo scored four for the Spain U21s. Who brought him in?" and he's right, Rodrigo was a good player in the few occasions we saw him. When someone mentioned N'Gog and Sordell, who we actually bought though, Nixon threw a paddy. If all our signings were as good as our loan players, we'd have a far better team.
Overall Miyachi wasn't a good player for us, he was a poor player for us and a luxury we couldn't afford. As has been said, Rodrigo barely got off the bench. Sturridge and Wilshere weren't exactly "unspotted" before they arrived, although credit to him for securing their loans. Boyata was used in a variety of back four positions, displacing some of our regular First Teamers, to no discernible effect.
Tuncay hardly got used. Weiss was no great shakes (but did have a hand in the two goals at Stoke that probably kept us up that season). Afobe, not seen enough of, but looks a bit headless at the moment - with clearer direction from a new Manager, might get some improvement out of him.
Spearing looks like a good loan, Warnock, not sure about yet.
All in all, a lot of loanees, quite a few barely used other than to upset some of the regular First Teamers. Hopefully the next incumbent will loan people he's actually going to either use regularly, or bench regularly and bring on. Coyle's random "drop this loanee in for a few starts before deciding they're no better than what we had anyhow" was counterproductive in my opinion.
All in all, a bit random.
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Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?
Coyle used other people's much better scouting systems to loan players from - nowt wrong with that, but it's hardly like he's picking hidden gems out of the unknown. He then generally made a mess of using them.SmokinFrazier wrote:Miyachi was a good player for us until the Muamba incident. I remember him looking terrified on the pitch and after that moment, he really struggled. It's easy for us to say "he's on x amount a week, it shouldn't make a difference" but his form before and after that Tottenham game was drastically different. Go back and look at the match day threads, and you'll see everyone wanting him to play. He started slow, played well and after the Muamba collapse, went off the boil again.
I think he's got the potential to be a really good player though. He had a few niggling injuries for us and there's obviously a mental issue, but he's talented.
Speaking of our former loan players, Nixon was on Twitter saying "Rodrigo scored four for the Spain U21s. Who brought him in?" and he's right, Rodrigo was a good player in the few occasions we saw him. When someone mentioned N'Gog and Sordell, who we actually bought though, Nixon threw a paddy. If all our signings were as good as our loan players, we'd have a far better team.
Wilshere - loaned and played - think this was his best one. We needed CM cover, Wilshere took the spot and did well.
Weiss - used as bit part - still nothing wrong with that - didn't really upset the balance of the team, contibuted to our 2 goals at Stoke, which probably kept us up.
Sturridge - displaced Elmander, overall our team performances dipped whilst he was here. Great to see Sturridge's goals, but not sure overall it helped the team.
Rodrigo - barely used.
Boyata - dotted around the back four to show our underperforming defenders how it should be done - Boyata was our equivalent of a "play anywhere across the back naughty boys corner". But little better than anyone else we had from what we saw, and ultimately when it's team organisation as much as the individuals concerned, not going to solve the problem
Tuncay - Go figure. No idea why we paid Wolfsburg good money for Tuncay
Miyachi - Was a complete crock of shite for us, other than maybe his first game or two. Actually looked like he could beat a defender and get a cross in that didn't hit the first bloke - unfortunately as soon as teams figured he was soft as shite, that was then end of anything he was likely to do for us.
Kakuta - useless for us.
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Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?
Agreed, Worthy except maybe re Sturridge. He was a superb player for us. He did lead to Elmander being shoved back into midfield & it was clear those 2 didn't get along. The issue was that it was Elmander moved aside rather than Davies.
I wouldn't want to have never had Sturridge here. He was used well, it was the room made for his which was ill-judged.
I wouldn't want to have never had Sturridge here. He was used well, it was the room made for his which was ill-judged.
Not advocating mass-murder as an entirely positive experience, of course, but it had its moments.
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Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?
Undoubtedly a good player for us Bobes. And maybe it should've been Davo, rather than Elmander displaced. Either way, our results dipped when he came into the team. And if it's a good player for us, to the detriment of the wider team, then it's not much use. He was used well as a lone player, in a team context I'm not half as convinced.bobo the clown wrote:Agreed, Worthy except maybe re Sturridge. He was a superb player for us. He did lead to Elmander being shoved back into midfield & it was clear those 2 didn't get along. The issue was that it was Elmander moved aside rather than Davies.
I wouldn't want to have never had Sturridge here. He was used well, it was the room made for his which was ill-judged.
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Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?
Goes to show his loan signings or at least how he used them was as bad as his permanent ones.Wiltshire and sturridge did well but the rest like typical coyle signings were flashy gutless wonders who promised much and did nowt. Coyles type of player.
Baffled by what he did with Tuncay who looked ok when he came in to me and Miyaichi looked excellent on the left so naturally we switched him to the right where he was useless.
Baffled by what he did with Tuncay who looked ok when he came in to me and Miyaichi looked excellent on the left so naturally we switched him to the right where he was useless.
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Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?
His use, or non-use, of Tuncay was one of those things which were so strange.Ianmooreslovechild wrote:Baffled by what he did with Tuncay who looked ok when he came in to me.
It may have been justified .... but if so, fckg explain it to people. As it was it just looked personal.
& much as he has the 'nice guy' image he sure fell out with people often enough.
Not advocating mass-murder as an entirely positive experience, of course, but it had its moments.
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Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?
While having my doubts about him for a long time - tho the afternoon when we beat Newcastle will long live with me - I mostly 'liked' him as a bloke
Towards the end I'd had my fill
I'm not sure he actually is 'nice'
A stubborn fcuker with a nasty, nasty streak, I reckon
His 'fcuk you, I know best, even though it's clear I don't' got very, very wearing
I'm pleased he's gone and while I don't wish him ill, I'd not be sad to see him sacked again, some time soon
Towards the end I'd had my fill
I'm not sure he actually is 'nice'
A stubborn fcuker with a nasty, nasty streak, I reckon
His 'fcuk you, I know best, even though it's clear I don't' got very, very wearing
I'm pleased he's gone and while I don't wish him ill, I'd not be sad to see him sacked again, some time soon
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Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?
According to the Scottish press it all went wrong when he had to sell Cahill
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/foo ... e.19110550" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I reckon it went wrong when it started to take more than enthusiasm and passion for the game, eg tactics, team selection, skill in the transfer market, and not playing yer mates every week.
His last game at Millwall where he played a right footed winger on the left, and a left footed midfielder on the right just about summed him up.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/foo ... e.19110550" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I reckon it went wrong when it started to take more than enthusiasm and passion for the game, eg tactics, team selection, skill in the transfer market, and not playing yer mates every week.
His last game at Millwall where he played a right footed winger on the left, and a left footed midfielder on the right just about summed him up.
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Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?
he were doing that kinda shite months before.
Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?
We're gonna have months and months of could, woulda, shouldaa1 wrote:he were doing that kinda shite months before.
The nob actually believes it
Delusional
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Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?
I cannot get my head around these other so called football fans spouting the crap they are about how good Coyle is Put him in charge of their team and see how long they like him!
Another thing I don't get is all the pathetic he's a nice chap, wish him no ill etc, bollox I will never forgive him as long as he breathes for relegating us because with out shadow of a doubt it was down to him and his hand picked backroom boys, ok he had a few problems but he failed to address these and deserves no sympathy what so ever.
The fact gartside did not move at the end of last season may be a burden the club will find hard to remove, I feel Coyles long term legacy will be a disaster unless we really get lucky with the new guy.
Owen Coyle non-entity now moved on, Scotand awaits your return
Another thing I don't get is all the pathetic he's a nice chap, wish him no ill etc, bollox I will never forgive him as long as he breathes for relegating us because with out shadow of a doubt it was down to him and his hand picked backroom boys, ok he had a few problems but he failed to address these and deserves no sympathy what so ever.
The fact gartside did not move at the end of last season may be a burden the club will find hard to remove, I feel Coyles long term legacy will be a disaster unless we really get lucky with the new guy.
Owen Coyle non-entity now moved on, Scotand awaits your return
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Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?
nelson66 wrote:http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/foo ... e.19110550
Not amazing figures, perhaps - a player on £20kpw gets £1m per year whether or not his team stays up - and obviously only a fraction of what it's worth to the club, but still eyebrow-raising when stated baldly...St Johnstone chairman Geoff Brown said rather than wrote:It is a shame, but Owen got a million when he went to Bolton, another million for keeping them up, so he is not poor.
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Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?
and he now saying the ones that got away and he didnt sign would they have made any differance at all...? not for me...
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/99 ... ay/?ref=mr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/99 ... ay/?ref=mr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?
They'd only just be finished picking the splinters out of their arses.si2008 wrote:and he now saying the ones that got away and he didnt sign would they have made any differance at all...? not for me...
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/99 ... ay/?ref=mr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?
Quotes from Kevin Davies and story in BN today again very revealing.....
“We’ve generally gone out and played to our way,” he said. “Sometimes it hasn’t worked out and we’ve been criticised for not having a plan B, but they are working very hard on shape with the back four and midfield.
“We do need to be more solid, there haven’t been enough clean sheets and that’s down to everyone, the whole team. We need to improve.”
It is noticable that sports science and medical departments, such a bedrock of Wanderers’ success in the Premier League, have become more prevalent in the last week.
So basically all the stuff about Coyle doing feck all in training and taking away the scientific approach that has long since been suspected but never confirmed were all true. I remember early in Coyle's days Davies on Goals on Sunday saying they did no work on shape or tactics or defensive work in training.“We’ve had a few conversations about what we do for recovery, because we’ve got quite a few games coming up in a short space of time,” Davies revealed. “They’ve looked at all aspects of training - and we’re in twice a day now.
“We do pre-hab in the gym in the mornings, and to be fair, the lads have always been quite good with that.
“They are looking at using Jimmy (Barrow) and Mike (Clitheroe) more and the science of it, trying to tailor it individually so that the training is all specific to what they feel each player needs.”
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Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?
All that stuff went with Allardyce.
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Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?
From today's Bolton News:
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... ws/9988466._/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
isn't this the sort of thing that should have been going on under Coyle?
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... ws/9988466._/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
isn't this the sort of thing that should have been going on under Coyle?
I feel reborn !!!! No more confussion
Re: Owen Coyle. Where did it all go wrong?
BWFC_Insane wrote:Quotes from Kevin Davies and story in BN today again very revealing.....
“We’ve generally gone out and played to our way,” he said. “Sometimes it hasn’t worked out and we’ve been criticised for not having a plan B, but they are working very hard on shape with the back four and midfield.
“We do need to be more solid, there haven’t been enough clean sheets and that’s down to everyone, the whole team. We need to improve.”It is noticable that sports science and medical departments, such a bedrock of Wanderers’ success in the Premier League, have become more prevalent in the last week.So basically all the stuff about Coyle doing feck all in training and taking away the scientific approach that has long since been suspected but never confirmed were all true. I remember early in Coyle's days Davies on Goals on Sunday saying they did no work on shape or tactics or defensive work in training.“We’ve had a few conversations about what we do for recovery, because we’ve got quite a few games coming up in a short space of time,” Davies revealed. “They’ve looked at all aspects of training - and we’re in twice a day now.
“We do pre-hab in the gym in the mornings, and to be fair, the lads have always been quite good with that.
“They are looking at using Jimmy (Barrow) and Mike (Clitheroe) more and the science of it, trying to tailor it individually so that the training is all specific to what they feel each player needs.”
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