General Chit Chat

[thebish]

i tried to read the famous five to my boys - some 15yrs ago... but in the first chapter of the first book we tried, the famous five were on a train up to their creepy pervy uncle's house - and Dick said something that Julian poo-pooed... we really could go any further than that - they wouldn't take it seriously!

there's far better stuff around for kids of that age nowadays...

we've never had it so good with children's literature

Aye, I suppose four kids who don't own an i-phone between them and a dog that's not been on "Britain's Got Talent" wouldn't be of much interest now.

(not that my kids have ever owned an i-phone) - but - NO - it wasn't. I tried - but there was loads of stuff that they did enjoy - they are all avid (and I mean - AVID) readers - and the famous five were not among them.

[thebish]

Star Rover, like Call of The Wild, is by Jack London. It confused the hell out of me as a kid, and is now amongst my top rated books of all time. It is one that I've read more than once and can get more out each time I read it. I highly recommend that you give it a go [but the full version, not the abridged]

_________________

Many books, re-read now divulge things missed first time round. I re-read Wilkie Collin's The Moonstone a month or two back and thought that. Bulldog Drummond and (the now banned) Biggles were also boyhood heroes. Finn The Wolfhound was another. Must admit Edgar Rice Burroughs John Carter on Mars was almost in the Dan Dare League back then. I always wondered if it inspired the later Stephen Donaldson Chronicles of Thomas Covenant? . I enjoyed reading The Weirdstone of Brisingham. Second childhood sort of thing.

Biggles is banned? WTF?

no - Biggles isn't banned. you can buy all the books on amazon without any legal consequences.

(they are also on the shelves of torquay library)

[bobo the clown]

Star Rover, like Call of The Wild, is by Jack London. It confused the hell out of me as a kid, and is now amongst my top rated books of all time. It is one that I've read more than once and can get more out each time I read it. I highly recommend that you give it a go [but the full version, not the abridged]

... and (the now banned) Biggles were also boyhood heroes.

Biggles is banned? WTF?

no - Biggles isn't banned. you can buy all the books on amazon without any legal consequences.

(they are also on the shelves of torquay library)

Yep. He won't be banned in Torbay for another 25 years I guess.

[TANGODANCER]

Libraries choosing not to stock and 'banned' aren't the same thing.

Quite so. I used the term figuratively. If I remember it was around the time kids beloved Gollywog dolls got the boot and Robertsons? had to remove the emblem from their jams and Ba Ba Rainbow Sheep, and all that stuff was afloat ?

[Montreal Wanderer]

i tried to read the famous five to my boys - some 15yrs ago... but in the first chapter of the first book we tried, the famous five were on a train up to their creepy pervy uncle's house - and Dick said something that Julian poo-pooed... we really could go any further than that - they wouldn't take it seriously!

there's far better stuff around for kids of that age nowadays...

we've never had it so good with children's literature

Aye, I suppose four kids who don't own an i-phone between them and a dog that's not been on "Britain's Got Talent" wouldn't be of much interest now.

I too missed out on the famous five, but that was my uncle's fault. Back in the early sixties for one Christmas he bought me an entire library of abridged classics, and after reading King Solomon's Mines, The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, the Call of the Wild, Moonfleet, Moby Dick, Star Rover, and Robinson Crusoe, I'm afraid that the famous five were very tame in comparison

Those brought back memories (apart from Star Rover?). Loved Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn but read the rest after graduating from Fives and Sevens. Others were Westward Ho, Treasure Island, Kidnapped, Last of the Mohicans, Gulliver's Travels and anything by G.K.Chesterton, to name but a few. Most were borrowed from Shephard Cross Street library and read by torchlight under the bed covers. Happy days.

Star Rover, like Call of The Wild, is by Jack London. It confused the hell out of me as a kid, and is now amongst my top rated books of all time. It is one that I've read more than once and can get more out each time I read it. I highly recommend that you give it a go [but the full version, not the abridged]

I read T he Star Rover some fifty years ago and enjoyed it (I went through a phase of reading the complete works of London) - I would not place it amongst my top-rated books of all times but tastes differ. It is of course somewhat episodic and I have never been fond of the concept of reincarnation, especially when plots are left unresolved at times.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Libraries choosing not to stock and 'banned' aren't the same thing.

Quite so. I used the term figuratively. If I remember it was around the time kids beloved Gollywog dolls got the boot and Robertsons? had to remove the emblem from their jams and Ba Ba Rainbow Sheep, and all that stuff was afloat ?

I got my gollywog by saving enough paper ones from the Golden and Silver Shred, and sending them in to Robertsons. I wonder what happened to it.

[thebish]

Libraries choosing not to stock and 'banned' aren't the same thing.

Quite so. I used the term figuratively. If I remember it was around the time kids beloved Gollywog dolls got the boot and Robertsons? had to remove the emblem from their jams and Ba Ba Rainbow Sheep, and all that stuff was afloat ?

just to be clear - is that another bit of "figurative" nonsense - or are you saying that actually happened?

also - according to Robertsons Jam:

In a statement reported by the BBC, Virginia (Ginny) C. Knox, previously brand director for Robertson's and later Chief Operating Officer of the Culinary Brands Division of RHM, told The Herald Newspaper in Scotland in 2001 that the decision to remove the Golly symbol from Robertson's jam and marmalade jars was taken after research found that children were not familiar with the character, although it still appealed to the older generations.

[TANGODANCER]

Libraries choosing not to stock and 'banned' aren't the same thing.

Quite so. I used the term figuratively. If I remember it was around the time kids beloved Gollywog dolls got the boot and Robertsons? had to remove the emblem from their jams and Ba Ba Rainbow Sheep, and all that stuff was afloat ?

just to be clear - is that another bit of "figurative" nonsense - or are you saying that actually happened?

"Figurative nonsense?" Do you have to nitpick everything? .. The story went, as I remember, that some schools were told to use that expression at the time. It was actually discussed on the Banter forum somewhere when it happened. Just to be clear of course, you may actually have taken part in the topic...

Why do you think Robertsons issued the statement if the subject hadn't arisen?

[thebish]

Libraries choosing not to stock and 'banned' aren't the same thing.

Quite so. I used the term figuratively. If I remember it was around the time kids beloved Gollywog dolls got the boot and Robertsons? had to remove the emblem from their jams and Ba Ba Rainbow Sheep, and all that stuff was afloat ?

just to be clear - is that another bit of "figurative" nonsense - or are you saying that actually happened?

"Figurative nonsense?" Do you have to nitpick everything? .. The story went, as I remember, that some schools were told to use that expression at the time. It was actually discussed on the Banter forum somewhere when it happened. Just to be clear of course, you may actually have taken part in the topic...

well - the Golly was discontinued because Robertsons decided they needed something new for a younger generation, NOT because they were told to remove it - the Baa-baa rainbow thing never happened - no school was told to use Baa-baa Rainbow Sheep - and Biggles isn't banned...

I don't see how endlessly repeating figurative nonsense untruths adds to any argument or thread...

[TANGODANCER]

well - the Golly was discontinued because Robertsons decided they needed something new for a younger generation, NOT because they were told to remove it - the Baa-baa rainbow thing never happened - no school was told to use Baa-baa Rainbow Sheep - and Biggles isn't banned...

I don't see how endlessly repeating figurative nonsense untruths adds to any argument or thread...

Right, well that's that then. Can't argue with you and Google. Carry on.

[Prufrock]

I've only just twigged onto 'Ba-Ba Rainbow Sheep'. As I recall that was another one the Daily Mail got into a spluttering rage over only for it to turn out that was name of the song because they'd used loads of colours, including black, to widen the kids' vocabulary no?

[thebish]

I've only just twigged onto 'Ba-Ba Rainbow Sheep'. As I recall that was another one the Daily Mail got into a spluttering rage over only for it to turn out that was name of the song because they'd used loads of colours, including black, to widen the kids' vocabulary no?

indeed (might have been the Express..) - that is the case. Shush, though - cos you are nit-picking and I'm sure the Daily Express was only being figurative - so Tango is free to repeat it ad nauseam...

did you know we all have to eat straight bananas nowadays???

it's fruititical correctness gone mad...

[TANGODANCER]

I've only just twigged onto 'Ba-Ba Rainbow Sheep'. As I recall that was another one the Daily Mail got into a spluttering rage over only for it to turn out that was name of the song because they'd used loads of colours, including black, to widen the kids' vocabulary no?

indeed (might have been the Express..) - that is the case. Shush, though - cos you are nit-picking and I'm sure the Daily Express was only being figurative - so Tango is free to repeat it ad nauseam...

did you know we all have to eat straight bananas nowadays???

it's fruititical correctness gone mad...

Well, your ever-righteousness, you might note I said, "the story goes", but shove your snide remarks up your sanctimoniouus ass and argue the toss with these folk:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/600470.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/ra ... 6012652386" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2 ... ures11.g21" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[thebish]

I've only just twigged onto 'Ba-Ba Rainbow Sheep'. As I recall that was another one the Daily Mail got into a spluttering rage over only for it to turn out that was name of the song because they'd used loads of colours, including black, to widen the kids' vocabulary no?

indeed (might have been the Express..) - that is the case. Shush, though - cos you are nit-picking and I'm sure the Daily Express was only being figurative - so Tango is free to repeat it ad nauseam...

did you know we all have to eat straight bananas nowadays???

it's fruititical correctness gone mad...

Well, your ever-righteousness, you might note I said, "the story goes", but shove your snide remarks up your sanctimoniouus ass and argue the toss with these folk:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/600470.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/ra ... 6012652386" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2 ... ures11.g21" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've had a look..

the first link doesn't say anything about Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep at all - does it?

the second is an aussie link that seems to make several broad unsubstantiated statements which are not true about what happens in britain - and then says that there is an aussie school where children sing BOTH Baa Baa black sheep and Baa Baa rainbow sheep - which may be true or may not - but (I'm sorry if this is not actually the case) I think it was a reasonable assumption to make that you were talking about this country - not a school in Australia...

the third talks about Gollies and their origins - but does not say Robertsons were TOLD to remove them (as you said) - nor does it dispute the version of events that I gave in any way at all.


did you actually read these links you provide? if so - I'm puzzled as to why you think I might want to go and argue with them.

also - you're always so quick to jump to personal abuse and name-calling... it's not helpful.

[Annoyed Grunt]

Baa baa rainbow sheep.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4782856.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Prufrock]

"But the charity running the nurseries, Parents and Children Together (Pact), said the move was educational, not motivated by racial concerns.

Pact said children were encouraged to use a wide range of words in songs.

"Pact has established that children sing a variety of descriptive words in the nursery rhyme to turn the song into an action rhyme," the charity said in a statement.

"They sing happy, sad, bouncing, hopping, pink, blue, black and white sheep etc and they also exchange boy and girl at the end of the rhyme."

As I said.

[thebish]

Baa baa rainbow sheep.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4782856.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes AG - there were two nurseries that used the song with many many different verses...

that is NOT the same as asserting that Schools were TOLD to use the version "Baa baa rainbow sheep"

they weren't.

[Annoyed Grunt]

Baa baa rainbow sheep.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4782856.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes AG - there were two nurseries that used the song with many many different verses...

that is NOT the same as asserting that Schools were TOLD to use the version "Baa baa rainbow sheep"

they weren't.

Hey, just trying to help.

But no, they don't appear to be told to use that version.

[thebish]

Baa baa rainbow sheep.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4782856.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes AG - there were two nurseries that used the song with many many different verses...

that is NOT the same as asserting that Schools were TOLD to use the version "Baa baa rainbow sheep"

they weren't.

Hey, just trying to help.....I think....maybe I'm not..?

well - you have correctly pinned down (as Pru did the page before!) the ORIGIN of the much peddled myth - so - yes - that's helpful!

what happened was that someone got wind that these nurseries sang this elongated version of Baa Baa Black Sheep - using it to learn a whole load of colours - nowt to do with race at all - or political correctness..

THEN..

the Daily Express picked up the story and gave it a vicious political twist and a massive dose of exaggeration and a good sprinkling of LIES to come up with a story that the PC Brigade (somewhere out there) was now ordering schools to change Baa Baa Black Sheep into Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep.

[Annoyed Grunt]

Did he? Bugger....apologies...should read further back