How long should a manager get?

[boltonboris]

I agree that he needs more time..

I know that's not aimed at anyone, but I've never said otherwise, personally.

Willing to give him a chance (which I am) and being underwhelmed (which I am), are both acceptable.

[Sponge]

If he is, then Coyle was. Pretty much.

^ indeed....

I'm sure BWFCi will be along shortly to say he has changed his mind and that Coyle was actually getting the most that was possible out of this squad of players... and that it turns out that Coyle is NOT a bad manager after all - it's just that he's no good in the transfer market and assembled a very poor squad..

*yawn*
getting tedious this place

Just a tad.

[plymouth wanderer]

If he is, then Coyle was. Pretty much.

^ indeed....

I'm sure BWFCi will be along shortly to say he has changed his mind and that Coyle was actually getting the most that was possible out of this squad of players... and that it turns out that Coyle is NOT a bad manager after all - it's just that he's no good in the transfer market and assembled a very poor squad..

*yawn*
getting tedious this place

Just a tad.

Thirded

[Armchair Wanderer]

Up til Peterborough I was happy. Peterborough was kinda strange and I wasn't there so call that a blip, whatever. Wednesday at home was the first REALLY disappointing result for me, but you can put some of the lack of midfield and bad defending down to injuries/suspensions albeit the team selection seemed crazy to me.

It's not just replacing OC with DF, it's the backroom staff... DF may just have 100 games but LL has many more.

In answering the question you have to give them at least a window to ship out the driftwood and bring in some girders. Whether you think the players are any good or not the team is unbalanced. If Dougie's priority is a Zaha-type I'll have to psychologically cross that bridge when it happens.

[BL3]

Didn't Freedman say "This club has all the tools at its disposal to return to the Premier League"?

You can't have it both ways

He's not going to come in and say 'squads a bit shit' is he?

He'd sound a bit silly if he did because the previous manager managed to beat Sheffield Wednesday with the same squad.

[boltonboris]

[Gail Platz]

Depends.

If he was brought in to create his own team then the amount of time Coyle and Megson got.

If he was brought in to get the best out of under performing players, all of which have previously played in the Premier League and can't manage to beat Ipswich, Peterborough or Barnsley, then I'd say 10 games.

Hint hint.

[SmokinFrazier]

I wouldn't moan if a manager was sacked after 5 games. Sometimes, you can just tell it isn't going to work out and in those cases, it's better to be decisive. Of course, there are plenty of good managers who start off poorly for their new team, so it's not an easy decision to make, but yeah, I think sometimes you can make the right decision very quickly.

That's not to say I think Freedman should be sacked, by the way. I'm thinking more about cases like Berg at Blackburn. It was clearly never going to work, so the owners did the right thing in being decisive.

Freedman deserves more time...though if we lose our next two games, I think there'll be plenty saying that the experiment failed and we should cut our losses. Hopefully that doesn't happen though.

[boltonboris]

I agree with practically everything Frazer said.

[BWFC_Insane]

I agree with practically everything Frazer said.

I don't. A club spends weeks working through a shortlist and selecting a manager based on a variety of data. Or at least it should.

Having done all that they should be prepared to give that manager suitable time to work things how they want.

If they aren't then it shows they haven't done suitable 'due diligence' and they should be ashamed!

[thebish]

I'm more than happy to give freedman well into next season.

but in saying that - it doesn't mean I will enter a pact to pretend that he's ace when the evidence so far suggests otherwise... I'm quite happy for him to have the time to grow into the job.

however - given that he isn't getting anything much more than Coyle did out of the squad - and given that his appointment was most likely quite an expensive business - would it not have been a better use of the dosh to invest in a much better scouting network?

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm more than happy to give freedman well into next season.

but in saying that - it doesn't mean I will enter a pact to pretend that he's ace when the evidence so far suggests otherwise... I'm quite happy for him to have the time to grow into the job.

however - given that he isn't getting anything much more than Coyle did out of the squad - and given that his appointment was most likely quite an expensive business - would it not have been a better use of the dosh to invest in a much better scouting network?

In terms of scouting network when Megson was here he was putting in place an extensive global scouting network headed by Colin Harvey. It was the biggest scouting network we had ever had apparently. What happened to that?

See for me that's one of the problems, a manager goes and so does all the staff. Coyle brought his own head scout for Burnley and presumably Harvey and his team were phased out.

For me stuff like that should be continuous. Perhaps it needs a DOF to put that in place long term he stick with it. Someone who has the club at heart and has enough experience to do that job without meddling in the day to day management.

Otherwise you just end up ripping things up when the manager fails or succeeds and moves.

[thebish]

I'm more than happy to give freedman well into next season.

but in saying that - it doesn't mean I will enter a pact to pretend that he's ace when the evidence so far suggests otherwise... I'm quite happy for him to have the time to grow into the job.

however - given that he isn't getting anything much more than Coyle did out of the squad - and given that his appointment was most likely quite an expensive business - would it not have been a better use of the dosh to invest in a much better scouting network?

In terms of scouting network when Megson was here he was putting in place an extensive global scouting network headed by Colin Harvey. It was the biggest scouting network we had ever had apparently. What happened to that?

See for me that's one of the problems, a manager goes and so does all the staff. Coyle brought his own head scout for Burnley and presumably Harvey and his team were phased out.

For me stuff like that should be continuous. Perhaps it needs a DOF to put that in place long term he stick with it. Someone who has the club at heart and has enough experience to do that job without meddling in the day to day management.

Otherwise you just end up ripping things up when the manager fails or succeeds and moves.

indeed.. the idea seems to have taken root that when you get a new manager - you need to take his entire backroom staff, coaches, kitmen, scouts and that he needs to buy his own team too... that - in effect - is buying a whole new club..

how long before managers insist on playing at a new ground that they have designed and built before they are judged!

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm more than happy to give freedman well into next season.

but in saying that - it doesn't mean I will enter a pact to pretend that he's ace when the evidence so far suggests otherwise... I'm quite happy for him to have the time to grow into the job.

however - given that he isn't getting anything much more than Coyle did out of the squad - and given that his appointment was most likely quite an expensive business - would it not have been a better use of the dosh to invest in a much better scouting network?

In terms of scouting network when Megson was here he was putting in place an extensive global scouting network headed by Colin Harvey. It was the biggest scouting network we had ever had apparently. What happened to that?

See for me that's one of the problems, a manager goes and so does all the staff. Coyle brought his own head scout for Burnley and presumably Harvey and his team were phased out.

For me stuff like that should be continuous. Perhaps it needs a DOF to put that in place long term he stick with it. Someone who has the club at heart and has enough experience to do that job without meddling in the day to day management.

Otherwise you just end up ripping things up when the manager fails or succeeds and moves.

indeed.. the idea seems to have taken root that when you get a new manager - you need to take his entire backroom staff, coaches, kitmen, scouts and that he needs to buy his own team too... that - in effect - is buying a whole new club..

how long before managers insist on playing at a new ground that they have designed and built before they are judged!

I think it's natural for a manager to want his own assistant own coaching staff etc. I guess it is for them to want scouts they trust as well.

I guess unless you change the management structure and responsibilities to include something like a Director of Football to maintain the scouting, medical side of things you end up changing everything all the time.

I'd be interested to know what Swansea do.....

[thebish]

yes - while I can see the idea, managers in other fields usually deal with the resources that the company already has - and their "management" skill is to get the best out of the resources available to them - that's what management is at heart, surely?

[TANGODANCER]

If every time we change a manager, he wants to change all the support staff, then what were the club paying the previous regime for? Effectively our trainers, scouts etc were doing a reasonable job and and we just needed a manager to sort out basically decent quality players and his training staff into a system. I'm confessing to being a bit baffled by the "travelling circus" entourage that needs to up-sticks when a manager leaves and a new one arrives.

We were playing in the Premier League (albeit, not well, granted) but seemed to have things in place that just needed a new leader. Now, in a lower league we have new faces everywhere and yet we're worse, if anything, than a season ago. The manager is in control and gets the flack; he's getting well paid for that, but if every time a firm appointed a new works manager, he wanted to replace all the key staff, something must be badly wrong with employed people in the first place.

If that's the case, then the new regime need to show why the last lot were lacking by an improved system. I'm not saying that won't happen, but it does need to start doing that pretty soon. Today might be a good place to start, at home to a side a few places below us. Just a thought.

[TANGODANCER]

yes - while I can see the idea, managers in other fields usually deal with the resources that the company already has - and their "management" skill is to get the best out of the resources available to them - that's what management is at heart, surely?

My last post was sent before I read yours. It's basically agreeing. Strange...

[Turkish Trotter]

I'm more than happy to give freedman well into next season.

but in saying that - it doesn't mean I will enter a pact to pretend that he's ace when the evidence so far suggests otherwise... I'm quite happy for him to have the time to grow into the job.

however - given that he isn't getting anything much more than Coyle did out of the squad - and given that his appointment was most likely quite an expensive business - would it not have been a better use of the dosh to invest in a much better scouting network?

It depends on who is spending the dosh, and which old mates could be given a hand out.

[bwfcdan94]

can I restart my Boothroyd campaign please ?

[ChrisC]

can I restart my Boothroyd campaign please ?

Only if we can restart our bwfcdan94 campaign