Palace Game

[89bwfc89]

I haven't really read this thread so apologies for the random input but I'd just like to add that I met Dan today. He IS who he says he is!

... AND she's taking him to Magaluf with her !!

I'm not going to Magaluf.....

Carry on.....

[Enoch]

Who'd a thought it!!

It's not all simplistic stuff, well bugger me!

With regard to tactical awareness, it's a sad fact that it isn't a given that comes with footballing ability. Some professional footballers (not all of course) really are a bit thin on the nous, even after a decent career.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

A quote from Zat(Shat) Knight in the BN regarding Palace and Zaha, And defending in general.

“It’s something we’ve been working on in training. When their winger gets the ball, we double up to make sure that if he does beat one, there is someone else behind to clean up.”
No wonder our defense is pitiful.

Absolutely incredible.

This is similar to forwards admitting that they've been working on trying to avoid the keeper when shooting, instead of kicking it straight at him, or a keeper working on using his feet to stop the ball, instead of just his hands.

No matter how good you are, you always work on the basics. The very best are the ones that work just as hard on the basics as the fancy shite. I played basketball to a very high standard when I were younger. The reason I was able to play at that level wasn't because I were naturally ace (they are few and far between), I had to work damn hard at it. About 70% of my training were doing the basics. I used to spend about 2 hours a week just doing free throws and about another 4 doing various shot drills. This is in addition to team training and other practice drills. If our players aren't working on doubling up for specific threats, or on basic stuff then I'd be worried. Very worried.

[Worthy4England]

BN



DOUGIE Freedman is having to restrict Chung-Yong Lee’s appearances for Wanderers because the winger is still feeling the after-effects of his horrific double leg break.

The Whites boss disclosed the full facts of the Korean’s battle for fitness after the 0-0 draw against his former club Crystal Palace, nearly eight months after he was brought back into the first team fold by Owen Coyle.

Chung-Yong spent nearly a year on the sidelines after sustaining a terrible injury in a pre-season friendly against Newport County, but has started 16 games in league and cup this term, with another eight appearances from the bench.

But Freedman says the 24-year-old is still some way from being able to cope fully with the demands of Championship football.

“Chungy still feels his leg from time to time and I think he’s still got a few screws in there,” said the manager. “He can’t really keep going game after game after game.

“This is a secret I will share with the fans – and I hope this goes out there – that’s the reason he doesn’t play every week.

“We all know Chungy is a fantastic player and I’d love to play him every week, I’d love to see him on the training ground every day.

“But two games in a week just does not suit him right now because of these screws. It’s something we’ll just have to manage for now and that’s why he was rested on Tuesday night.”

Freedman resisted the chance to name Stuart Holden in his squad for Crystal Palace – possibly with the weather conditions in mind.

It is understood, however, that the American will be considered for this weekend’s FA Cup tie against Everton.

Marvin Sordell, whose two goals had helped set up the fourth round clash is another player who Freedman is reluctant to pitch in for two games in a week.

The young striker sat as an unused substitute at Selhurst Park, but the Wanderers boss is still encouraged by the progress he is making on the training ground.

“Marvin is still working his way back and we’ll have to be patient,” he said.

“If you want the honest truth – can Marvin play two games in a week? No.

“Marvin is not conditioned and hasn’t played two games in a week for a long time.

“I felt he could possibly have come on for us but the way the game panned out, it wasn’t to be. But Marvin Sordell is certainly getting there.”
Seems fair enough

Hang on, you mean there's no conspiracy? You mean making decisions as a manager is more complicated than "he scored last week, chuck him on", and that Dougie Freedom isn't deliberately trying to undermine Marvin Sordell's confidence? It cannot be true.

This is what I referring to on another post.

He makes apparently odd decisions, then if it doesn't come off, comes out with half-arsed 'explanations' as to why he did it.

The thrid element is when he then reverses said decision the following week, contradicting his own half-arsed explanation.

He's obviously getting frustrated to being questioned as well ; "“This is a secret I will share with the fans – and I hope this goes out there – that’s the reason he doesn’t play every week".

I have NO issue with CYL needing to be taken care of. I have NO issue with bringing Holden back in very small stages.

I'm less convinced that Sordell could possibly have becomethat unfit. Fckg hell, it's what... 10 OR 12 weeks since Coyle left. That's as long as any pre-season .... & it's not like he's not been training (or is it ???).

& even if not ready for 2 games in a week ... that doesn't explain him not even getting off the bench.

But, Dougie, try explaining BEFORE the decision leads to you being questioned .... or make sure the result from it is a good one & few will be questioning you sunshine.

I'm sure he'll make a note to tell everyone, including the opposition the rationale behind which players are and aren't fully fit ahead of the game next go.

That'll keep everyone happy.

[Enoch]

That'll keep everyone happy.

And I thought I was an optimist!!

[bobo the clown]

That'll keep everyone happy.

And I thought I was an optimist!!

... now now Worthy. Deliberately misunderstanding me. Even if that IS what I actually said !!

[BWFC_Insane]

Whats he meant to do, come out before every game and explain every selection decision? I think thats madness.

Some things are best kept to within the organisation.

In fact most things are.

[a1]

he played for at least a point, which he got.

i dont see the problem.

unless the problem for some is that he's getting more points than coyle were.

[Worthy4England]

That'll keep everyone happy.

And I thought I was an optimist!!

... now now Worthy. Deliberately misunderstanding me. Even if that IS what I actually said !!

No Siree. Not deliberately misunderstanding you.

Previous managers have been criticised for not playing player X or player Y - notable recent(ish) players amongst others being Klasnic, Muamba and Andranik Messi.

I couldn't understand Klasnic not playing - he had 7 goals when he got dropped to the bench. I couldn't understand Muamba seemingly being frozen out. I could understand Andranik (on a week in, week out basis)

Where I am at the moment, is that I can understand most of Freedman's omissions. I could fairly easily argue the case to start Sordell - given our other non-scoring strikers - but I could also point to the fact that outside of the Sunnerland games, when he has had an opportunity, he's not done much to justify inclusion on a regular basis either.

You can see CYL isn't the "same player" yet, from the one just before the injury, the Manager doesn't have to announce that to me.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Not quite sure why Marvin isn't up to two games a week, but the fitness assessment - one of DF's hobby-horses, we're told – seems to have been working in that he scores every time he's picked, after a long period of very rarely doing so. I doubt DF would willingly keep a goalscorer off the pitch, even when circumstance might require someone better at holding it up.

I do feel that people are slightly looking for holes to pick. I felt the same under Coyle until my patience snapped at Crawley. And I tire of the constant back-and-forth comparing the two. But as Freedman seems more about the long haul than the short fix, I fear a long while of it yet.

[bobo the clown]

I stuck with Megson until Hull at home. I defended him. I was "a person who understood football".

I stuck with Coyle till the Wigan fiaco & had to endure him for 9 further months.

I'm not wrting Freedman off, but I'm now more cynical about supporting managers who make perplexing decisions & he's made plenty. I still feel he can steady the ship, I'm certainly hopeful he does. However I will no longer accept regardless.

As I said above, I agree that CYL will take a while, I agree that Holden needs kid gloves, I accept that Sordell needs getting back but maybe he was a basket case ... a real, no messing about, 100% gibbering, dribbling wreck .... but he should, by now, be fit. Whether he's any good, whether he deserves selecting is for judgement, but ffs how can he not be fit ?

[Bruce Rioja]

But as Freedman seems more about the long haul than the short fix

Which is exactly how Coyle set his stall out, yet proved to be useless on both counts.

I may be expecting too much, but I'd like a manager that can work with what he's got whilst shaping things for the long haul.

Freedman's banged on for several weeks now about not knowing his best team or formation - surely he found pretty much that for the Birmingham game. So why's he ditched it?

[Worthy4England]

But as Freedman seems more about the long haul than the short fix

Which is exactly how Coyle set his stall out, yet proved to be useless on both counts.

I may be expecting too much, but I'd like a manager that can work with what he's got whilst shaping things for the long haul.

Freedman's banged on for several weeks now about not knowing his best team or formation - surely he found pretty much that for the Birmingham game. So why's he ditched it?

Largely he's played the same team for the four league games from (and including) the Brum match.

He did make two changes for Milwall - Ricketts in for Mears, and N'gog in for Pratley. Other than that the rest of the team have been the same.

[Always hopeful]

A quote from Zat(Shat) Knight in the BN regarding Palace and Zaha, And defending in general.

“It’s something we’ve been working on in training. When their winger gets the ball, we double up to make sure that if he does beat one, there is someone else behind to clean up.”
No wonder our defense is pitiful.

Absolutely incredible.

This is similar to forwards admitting that they've been working on trying to avoid the keeper when shooting, instead of kicking it straight at him, or a keeper working on using his feet to stop the ball, instead of just his hands.

No matter how good you are, you always work on the basics. The very best are the ones that work just as hard on the basics as the fancy shite. I played basketball to a very high standard when I were younger. The reason I was able to play at that level wasn't because I were naturally ace (they are few and far between), I had to work damn hard at it. About 70% of my training were doing the basics. I used to spend about 2 hours a week just doing free throws and about another 4 doing various shot drills. This is in addition to team training and other practice drills. If our players aren't working on doubling up for specific threats, or on basic stuff then I'd be worried. Very worried.

If our players aren't naturally ace, then what the hell are they doing playing for us?

Surely people who are getting paid handsomely for being professional footballers, shouldn't need to be coached in the most basic skills of defending?

This really is a poor reflection of the Coyle era if Knight is openly admitting that covering and doubling up is something they've had to work on in training. I don't know about you, but I'd have kept that quiet.

[a1]

Surely people who are getting paid handsomely for being professional footballers, shouldn't need to be coached in the most basic skills of defending?
.

maybe they should just play pingpong until saturday ?

[Worthy4England]

Surely people who are getting paid handsomely for being professional footballers, shouldn't need to be coached in the most basic skills of defending?
.

maybe they should just play pingpong until saturday ?

I was half listening to an ex-Spurs (I think) defender on the radio today who was asked something along the lines of "is there any difference between the training today and when you were playing", to which the answer (roughly) came back. "Yes - they don't bother with defensive training as such any more, because they think that it gives too great a risk of injury and the players don't like heading the ball as they think it shortens their careers and could have a long term detrimental effect"

I kid you not.

[Dr.Karl]

Decent 0-0 game. Whenever Zaha got one on one with either fullback I was shitting it. Guy is cut above at this level but his end product was lacking on Saturday(thankfully for us). I'm convinced under Coyle we would have played far too open and been susceptible to Palace counter attacks with their wingers doing some serious damage to us.

Our system is probably the reason why the likes of Ream and Alonso look so much better, they've got protection in front of them now. Not saying they're world beaters but they look much better than under Coyle. That said it doesn't explain Ream's shocking five minutes at Huddersfield . Cahill is a perfect example of that, from looking shaky in the latter months of his Bolton career to being one of the leading defenders in the country.

And people are right when they say Davo won a lot in the air. BUT whats the fecking point of playing him no one is picking up the scraps around him? No Nolan or Stelios to snatch a few goals. It just doesn't suit the system/players we're playing. He is also painfully slow when getting on the few crosses we put in the box, his link up play isn't the greatest and he looks generally slow. I'd be severely disappointed if he is our best option upfront. The difference in Caives(I'm coining it) and Davies was quite noticeable. One looked sharp and made a couple of decent runs and the other was a fading warhorse. He has a role to play when we're chasing games but atm Davo's legacy is fast fading IMO.

[a1]

I was half listening to an ex-Spurs (I think) defender on the radio today who was asked something along the lines of "is there any difference between the training today and when you were playing", to which the answer (roughly) came back. "Yes - they don't bother with defensive training as such any more, because they think that it gives too great a risk of injury and the players don't like heading the ball as they think it shortens their careers and could have a long term detrimental effect"

I kid you not.

can see that in some sense, but they never wear leather headguards to mitigate the risk, coz it would affect headers on/away from goal and you could lose your place in the team over some incident. and yet they wont take THAT risk by wearing one. even if it protects their noggin, it may harm their wallet. so i sez bullshit on that excuse and on any pro footballer that uses it probably stares at the floor when theyre saying it.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

If our players aren't naturally ace, then what the hell are they doing playing for us?

Surely people who are getting paid handsomely for being professional footballers, shouldn't need to be coached in the most basic skills of defending?

This really is a poor reflection of the Coyle era if Knight is openly admitting that covering and doubling up is something they've had to work on in training. I don't know about you, but I'd have kept that quiet.

Because it isn't about just turning up. You practice and you practice so it becomes 2nd nature. You stop that practice or make it irregular then the brain doesn't retain it so it is 2nd nature. It becomes vague and you have to think about it. Thinking about stuff before acting in any fast paced sport doesn't work. Training is generally quite repetitive for a reason.

You also have to take into account the number of different coaches and managers a player encounters in a career. One coach might tell you to do one thing and then the next tells you the exact opposite. We're in a transition from playing 5-a-side in training for the last couple of years to doubling up on certain opposition attackers, positioning and shape. It is a change of habit and this can take a while. How much you get paid has nowt to do with it.

Finally. If players aren't being coached to counter specific threats before a game then what are they supposed to be doing? Dougie knows Zaha better than any other manager. If he didn't have specific plans and coach the team leading up to the game to counter someone like Zaha then we really should be worrying about what goes on at the club. If we're lambasting Coyle for lack of preparation and proper coaching then lets not lambast the current manager for actually trying to coach and prepare the team.

[m_taylor]

If our players aren't naturally ace, then what the hell are they doing playing for us?

Surely people who are getting paid handsomely for being professional footballers, shouldn't need to be coached in the most basic skills of defending?

This really is a poor reflection of the Coyle era if Knight is openly admitting that covering and doubling up is something they've had to work on in training. I don't know about you, but I'd have kept that quiet.

Because it isn't about just turning up. You practice and you practice so it becomes 2nd nature. You stop that practice or make it irregular then the brain doesn't retain it so it is 2nd nature. It becomes vague and you have to think about it. Thinking about stuff before acting in any fast paced sport doesn't work. Training is generally quite repetitive for a reason.

You also have to take into account the number of different coaches and managers a player encounters in a career. One coach might tell you to do one thing and then the next tells you the exact opposite. We're in a transition from playing 5-a-side in training for the last couple of years to doubling up on certain opposition attackers, positioning and shape. It is a change of habit and this can take a while. How much you get paid has nowt to do with it.

Finally. If players aren't being coached to counter specific threats before a game then what are they supposed to be doing? Dougie knows Zaha better than any other manager. If he didn't have specific plans and coach the team leading up to the game to counter someone like Zaha then we really should be worrying about what goes on at the club. If we're lambasting Coyle for lack of preparation and proper coaching then lets not lambast the current manager for actually trying to coach and prepare the team.

Well said!