Dougie Freedman - New Manager

[Worthy4England]

I just think it's great that we can tell all this from Tango's commentary. As TD's new agent (yet to be discussed with TD), I'm sure this will be as revolutionary as Prozone.

Arsene, Roberto, Alex, Rafa and Pep etc. Will be made up when I call them tomorrow to tell 'em they're wasting their time in the dugout on those wet and windy Saturday's and that they just need to subscribe to Tangovision.

That said, I'm not inside football management, so I'm sure they'll come up with some bollocks excuses as to why they think they need to attend games to be able to see such trivialities.

[Enoch]

I'm sure they'll come up with some bollocks excuses as to why they think they need to attend games to be able to see such trivialities.

Smoke and mirrors Mr Worthy4England, they're all having it off. We all know it's a piss easy job.

[Worthy4England]

I'm sure they'll come up with some bollocks excuses as to why they think they need to attend games to be able to see such trivialities.

Smoke and mirrors Mr Worthy4England, they're all having it off. We all know it's a piss easy job.

[thebish]

Perhaps you could tell me how many points we managed out of them, Mr Tactical Guru?

I did try and say this politely... but it is this stuff that just makes you sound like a bit of a dick (in my humble opinion)...

Right and the fact that you only pick on certain posters does exactly the same for you.

In my humble opinion of course.

SF was hardly being humble in his posts now was he? I don't see you pointing that out to him.

well, funnily enough I did check out SF's contributions and compared them to yours (in response to your previous "please sir, it's not fair" appeal) - and, no - I don't think he is anything like as "personal" in his responses as you are - seeing as you ask...

i reckon you both know quite a bit about football - and you are both genuine Bolton supporters - and that the discussion isn't helped by this kind of name-calling...

you may disagree, as is your right.

[Spartan2]

Perhaps you could tell me how many points we managed out of them, Mr Tactical Guru?

I did try and say this politely... but it is this stuff that just makes you sound like a bit of a dick (in my humble opinion)...

If your going to go with SF: "I know loads about football and you know nothing..." then you deserve a snide: "Mr Tactical Guru" IMO. Particularily if your argument falls appart through recent example.

BWFC_Insane is one of the few posters on here that is worth reading, which makes your persistance in singling out his posts a nonsense especially considering the volumes of bullsh1t by other posters you could criticise.

[Spartan2]

Perhaps you could tell me how many points we managed out of them, Mr Tactical Guru?

I did try and say this politely... but it is this stuff that just makes you sound like a bit of a dick(in my humble opinion)...

Right and the fact that you only pick on certain posters does exactly the same for you.

In my humble opinion of course.

SF was hardly being humble in his posts now was he? I don't see you pointing that out to him.

well, funnily enough I did check out SF's contributions and compared them to yours (in response to your previous "please sir, it's not fair" [derogatory sarcasm] appeal) - and, no - I don't think he is anything like as "personal" in his responses as you are - seeing as you ask...

i reckon you both know quite a bit about football - and you are both genuine Bolton supporters - and that the discussion isn't helped by this kind of name-calling...

you may disagree, as is your right.

[TANGODANCER]

I just think it's great that we can tell all this from Tango's commentary. As TD's new agent (yet to be discussed with TD), I'm sure this will be as revolutionary as Prozone.

Please note. Tango relays the commentary as he hears it and doesn't generally have much more to say. Peter Brough was a dam good ventriloquist on radio.

[Worthy4England]

I just think it's great that we can tell all this from Tango's commentary. As TD's new agent (yet to be discussed with TD), I'm sure this will be as revolutionary as Prozone.

Please note. Tango relays the commentary as he hears it and doesn't generally have much more to say. Peter Brough was a dam good ventriloquist on radio.

That's fine TD. I've already had a call from Brendan Rodgers, because it's new.

[Enoch]

I just read that Archie Andrews sold for £34,000 in November 2005. He probably landed a five year deal at Southampton.

[CAPSLOCK]

Perhaps you could tell me how many points we managed out of them, Mr Tactical Guru?

I did try and say this politely... but it is this stuff that just makes you sound like a bit of a dick (in my humble opinion)...

If your going to go with SF: "I know loads about football and you know nothing..." then you deserve a snide: "Mr Tactical Guru" IMO. Particularily if your argument falls appart through recent example.

BWFC_Insane is one of the few posters on here that is worth reading, which makes your persistance in singling out his posts a nonsense especially considering the volumes of bullsh1t by other posters you could criticise.

[Hoboh]

Scrap! Scrap! Bwfci, smokey joe, bish, worthy, tango with unrully caps at the ringside.

[a1]

dunno 'bout other folk, but the way he goes about his substitutes for the result, looks miles more competent and thought out than coyle's (eg, i'm drawing away at norwich, i'll take muamba off; i'm drawing at home to fifth place newcastle, i'll put eight forwards on ; etc).

to me anyroad.

i'm just glad at least i can kinda see what's going on now .

whereas teamcoyle were "we'll lose today by at least three, but how crazy will it look? "

the m0ng's might be clammering for john mcginlay or some other crazy know nowt already, but i at least like the "oh yeah.. i see" i get from douglas's crew

[thebish]

Scrap! Scrap! Bwfci, smokey joe, bish, worthy, tango with unrully caps at the ringside.

I'm a lover, not a fighter...

[TANGODANCER]

Scrap! Scrap! Bwfci, smokey joe, bish, worthy, tango with unrully caps at the ringside.

I'm a lover, not a fighter...

I'm an echo, not a football commentator.

[Prufrock]

Meh. BWFCi is right. Yon SF is a shite-talking fanboy. He keeps claiming fecking Obi Mikel as some sort of tactical genius.

'Worked within football'. Either an ex-pro in there on name, or he means researcher for FM/manager of St.Paul's under 9s got a rejection letter off Steve Gibson after applying for the Boro job having won the Champions League with Torquay.

Now I'm all for discussing tactics on here, I find it quite interesting, but the 'let's use words I've read of the internet and mention how I'm an insider and talk wank about wide-players so I can status-f*ck people into thinking I'm ace' is just stupid.

I've done coaching to a decent level. I don't say that to indicate that I know what I'm on about when talking in-depth tactics, I don't, but I have been around, and coached by, folk who do, and I can recognise when folk know what they're on about (mainly coz I start nodding my head thinking 'ohh yeahh'). The last fellow on here to genuinely know what he was on about when he talked about 'tactics' was a bald fella named after a takeaway snack. Since he's been away for a while, we should defo all wade in with our six-penneth worth, but let's not start self-aggrandising condescending shite. It's one's opinion on what we should be doing against another. Disagree, yes, strongly, yes, but don't start making vague allusions to qualifications you haven't got.

BWFCi may change his opinion *occasionally* (looool) and may sometimes talk pish, but I don't think he is one for trying to lord over folk as if he knows more. He'll post a lot, and reply to a lot, and go into detail a lot, but it tends to be a proper debate. SF keeps trying the lord it over I'm cleverer than you stuff (which is a shame, because there's a lot he posts that is in-depth, but IMO, wrong, that I'd like to go into, but cba).

PS. I'm self aware enough to know I started this with a 'he's a fanboy talking shite'; however, a)I'm drunk, and b) it's my version of bish's only picking on the picker-oners, so ner.

[Hoboh]

Meh. BWFCi is right. Yon SF is a shite-talking fanboy. He keeps claiming fecking Obi Mikel as some sort of tactical genius.

'Worked within football'. Either an ex-pro in there on name, or he means researcher for FM/manager of St.Paul's under 9s got a rejection letter off Steve Gibson after applying for the Boro job having won the Champions League with Torquay.

Now I'm all for discussing tactics on here, I find it quite interesting, but the 'let's use words I've read of the internet and mention how I'm an insider and talk wank about wide-players so I can status-f*ck people into thinking I'm ace' is just stupid.

I've done coaching to a decent level. I don't say that to indicate that I know what I'm on about when talking in-depth tactics, I don't, but I have been around, and coached by, folk who do, and I can recognise when folk know what they're on about (mainly coz I start nodding my head thinking 'ohh yeahh'). The last fellow on here to genuinely know what he was on about when he talked about 'tactics' was a bald fella named after a takeaway snack. Since he's been away for a while, we should defo all wade in with our six-penneth worth, but let's not start self-aggrandising condescending shite. It's one's opinion on what we should be doing against another. Disagree, yes, strongly, yes, but don't start making vague allusions to qualifications you haven't got.

BWFCi may change his opinion *occasionally* (looool) and may sometimes talk pish, but I don't think he is one for trying to lord over folk as if he knows more. He'll post a lot, and reply to a lot, and go into detail a lot, but it tends to be a proper debate. SF keeps trying the lord it over I'm cleverer than you stuff (which is a shame, because there's a lot he posts that is in-depth, but IMO, wrong, that I'd like to go into, but cba).

PS. I'm self aware enough to know I started this with a 'he's a fanboy talking shite'; however, a)I'm drunk, and b) it's my version of bish's only picking on the picker-oners, so ner.

Why post a sentence when War & Peace will do?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Trying to get away from this 5-4-3-2-1 nonsense...

Those that go are probably best placed to answer this: It seems to me (from Radio Tango/Interweb) that the majority of goals we have conceded in the last couple of months have been down to individual mistakes rather than the team not being set-up right or too knackered/lazy/don't give a shite. It seems to me that previously we were conceding goals due to all of the aforementioned. Do folk that go think this is a fair assessment?

If so, I think the tangible that Dougie has achieved is to get the team defending better. The problem it then seems, is that we have some players that make too many mistakes. I'm not so sure how much you can coach this out of them, meaning we're going to have this problem until Dougie can replace them.

We were warned by the Palace fans that the defence would be where Dougie concentrated. It seems to me that we have improved here, but individual mistakes are undoing the good work. The attacking side of things is suffering because of the defensive ethos. I doubt this would be as much of an issue if the mistakes weren't being made as we'd be winning more games 1-0 probably, rather than drawing or losing by a goal.

It is frustrating to see SKD play ahead of Cravies at the moment. I really hope in our next home game he starts with Ngog and Cravies, so we can see what they can do in 90 minutes. We need to be patient with the returning injured. If the individual mistakes can be reduced I can see us nicking more wins. It will be dull, but we need the solid foundation to build our attacks from. I think it has improved, just the mistakes are meaning no improvement in points (which matter most). I think we're in for an interesting summer as I think quite a few will be going. From the little we've seen, Dougie does seem to have an eye for effective players in the bargain bin.

[BWFC_Insane]

Trying to get away from this 5-4-3-2-1 nonsense...

Those that go are probably best placed to answer this: It seems to me (from Radio Tango/Interweb) that the majority of goals we have conceded in the last couple of months have been down to individual mistakes rather than the team not being set-up right or too knackered/lazy/don't give a shite. It seems to me that previously we were conceding goals due to all of the aforementioned. Do folk that go think this is a fair assessment?

If so, I think the tangible that Dougie has achieved is to get the team defending better. The problem it then seems, is that we have some players that make too many mistakes. I'm not so sure how much you can coach this out of them, meaning we're going to have this problem until Dougie can replace them.

We were warned by the Palace fans that the defence would be where Dougie concentrated. It seems to me that we have improved here, but individual mistakes are undoing the good work. The attacking side of things is suffering because of the defensive ethos. I doubt this would be as much of an issue if the mistakes weren't being made as we'd be winning more games 1-0 probably, rather than drawing or losing by a goal.

It is frustrating to see SKD play ahead of Cravies at the moment. I really hope in our next home game he starts with Ngog and Cravies, so we can see what they can do in 90 minutes. We need to be patient with the returning injured. If the individual mistakes can be reduced I can see us nicking more wins. It will be dull, but we need the solid foundation to build our attacks from. I think it has improved, just the mistakes are meaning no improvement in points (which matter most). I think we're in for an interesting summer as I think quite a few will be going. From the little we've seen, Dougie does seem to have an eye for effective players in the bargain bin.

I would personally agree with that more or less.

We are more "solid". As in we aren't letting sides walk through us.

We are, at times inviting too much pressure and given our ability to make mistakes, it means we are leaking goals.

Dougie is trying to turn us into a side that keeps the ball, I don't think anyone can deny that. Which IMO will be a worthwhile but possibly long and frustrating process. Because although we are better at keeping it, being able to ally that to creating chances and scoring goals and having the patience required takes time, and in some cases different players.

I think playing KD was a mistake. I'm not sure why he did it, given the other options.

And back to systems for a moment, to be clear there are obviously times when you have to go two up. There will be games where it may even be advantageous to start like that. BUT for me on average we do better consistently with a 4-5-1 (or a variant of) than a 4-4-2. I think nowadays given how many pack midfield it's hard to play 4-4-2 as a stock system.

I think that picking the right times to do it, either from the start or during a game is key.

I do think that playing NGog in behind Craig Davies COULD make for a good partnership. But again how would we accomodate Mark Davies in there and do we have a central midfield strong enough to carry us? We may well, IF Holden ever eventually is fit again and IF Medo looks the part once he's match sharp.

But I'm less than convinced that Spearing and Pratley could do that job week in week out. I think thats why Dougie is trying to keep it tight and then use NGog and C Davies late on.

[Worthy4England]

Trying to get away from this 5-4-3-2-1 nonsense...

Those that go are probably best placed to answer this: It seems to me (from Radio Tango/Interweb) that the majority of goals we have conceded in the last couple of months have been down to individual mistakes rather than the team not being set-up right or too knackered/lazy/don't give a shite. It seems to me that previously we were conceding goals due to all of the aforementioned. Do folk that go think this is a fair assessment?

If so, I think the tangible that Dougie has achieved is to get the team defending better. The problem it then seems, is that we have some players that make too many mistakes. I'm not so sure how much you can coach this out of them, meaning we're going to have this problem until Dougie can replace them.

We were warned by the Palace fans that the defence would be where Dougie concentrated. It seems to me that we have improved here, but individual mistakes are undoing the good work. The attacking side of things is suffering because of the defensive ethos. I doubt this would be as much of an issue if the mistakes weren't being made as we'd be winning more games 1-0 probably, rather than drawing or losing by a goal.

It is frustrating to see SKD play ahead of Cravies at the moment. I really hope in our next home game he starts with Ngog and Cravies, so we can see what they can do in 90 minutes. We need to be patient with the returning injured. If the individual mistakes can be reduced I can see us nicking more wins. It will be dull, but we need the solid foundation to build our attacks from. I think it has improved, just the mistakes are meaning no improvement in points (which matter most). I think we're in for an interesting summer as I think quite a few will be going. From the little we've seen, Dougie does seem to have an eye for effective players in the bargain bin.

I would personally agree with that more or less.

We are more "solid". As in we aren't letting sides walk through us.

We are, at times inviting too much pressure and given our ability to make mistakes, it means we are leaking goals.

Dougie is trying to turn us into a side that keeps the ball, I don't think anyone can deny that. Which IMO will be a worthwhile but possibly long and frustrating process. Because although we are better at keeping it, being able to ally that to creating chances and scoring goals and having the patience required takes time, and in some cases different players.

I think playing KD was a mistake. I'm not sure why he did it, given the other options.

And back to systems for a moment, to be clear there are obviously times when you have to go two up. There will be games where it may even be advantageous to start like that. BUT for me on average we do better consistently with a 4-5-1 (or a variant of) than a 4-4-2. I think nowadays given how many pack midfield it's hard to play 4-4-2 as a stock system.

I think that picking the right times to do it, either from the start or during a game is key.

I do think that playing NGog in behind Craig Davies COULD make for a good partnership. But again how would we accomodate Mark Davies in there and do we have a central midfield strong enough to carry us? We may well, IF Holden ever eventually is fit again and IF Medo looks the part once he's match sharp.

But I'm less than convinced that Spearing and Pratley could do that job week in week out. I think thats why Dougie is trying to keep it tight and then use NGog and C Davies late on.

I think you can play any system, dependent on the players you have available.

If you hark back to Allardyce's last season.

In MF generally that season, we had Speed, Campo, Faye and Nolan (regardless what you think of Nolan, he could certainly get in the way ). If you got past them, there was Hunt, Miete, TBH and Gardner who could all generally tackle and/or win headers etc. We could call on Joof, SKD and Anelka up front. They could all generally stop people going past them, or at least get in the way long enough that someone else would pick up the loose ball. Sure the formation changed - without getting too hooked up on it - sometimes we were more 4-3-3, sometimes 4-5-1 (which could have been the same players and argue the toss about which one of the two it was), generally we defended like a team and attacked like one.

I can recall in the dim and distant past, the debate about Megson's 4-5-1 and I think DSB at the time pointed out that it really struggled to turn defence into attack - but it managed to do one of them half ok. Megson generally had Steinsson, Cahill, Knight and Robinson, playing behind Muamba, Taylor, McCann, Nolan and AN Other in his second season. Still players that harried and chased. Elmander used to fall back and do his bit too.

OC in his first full season, largely went with Holden, Muamba, Taylor and CYL/Petrov - At the time Holden got injured, Holden and Muamba were still in the top 5 or 10 in the Prem on tackle count iirc - so we got away with 4-4-2(ish), supported by Taylor who harried too.

Last season, we had a MF largely of Eagles, Reo-Coker, Mavies and Petrov (occasionally Moo) - Three of 'em wouldn't be able to tackle yer gran, and we put behind them a disaster waiting to happen in the middle of defence.

This season, we still haven't solved the problem of having too lightweight a midfiled yet - not only is it too lightweight defensively, it's not ripping up trees going forwards either - not helped by an ageing SKD (but I still don't think there's been too many viable alternatives - I mean, Afobe??? N'gog/SKD???)

I still think we have a problem in the defensive element of MF and given that we're not bagging 3/4 a game up front, I can see why we might try and attend to this first. Spearing struggles to marshall in front of the defence on his own, because what he has had in front of him is Pratley, CYL, Petrov, Eagles Mavies etc. So we need a second player in there who can tackle. Hopefully this will be a returning Holden, and/or Medo.

You then have Eagles, CYL, Pratley, N'gog, Mavies (I've ignored De-Ridder as he's only around for a month currently) playing for three spots - whether it's 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 or 4-3-3.

Upfront, we probably need to give Cravies a go, but until we sort out the MF it's all a bit academic.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I'm probably one of the few members on here who has experience within football.

What's your experience?