Today I'm angry about.....

[thebish]

I thought they were allowed to do what they wanted though? So why would that be such an outrageous thought? If they're allowed such freedom?

I think that Mummy was implying I am a looney conspiracy theorist and to suggest such contact between MI5 anhd Qatadar is preposterous... I amy be wrong, but it's hard to say as his responses are now limited to emoticons..

[Lord Kangana]

I'd be like Pierce Brosnan in The Tailor of Panama if you allowed me the freedom to do what I wanted. I can't be alone.

[Worthy4England]

False papers, if I recall?

most asylum seekers arrive with no papers (about 80%) or false papers - it's the nature of the beast when you are fleeing a country that doesn't want you to flee...

i'm not totally up to speed with qatada's paperwork route - but the charge that he arrived with false papers is hardly unusual in cases of asylum seekers.

I agree, hardly would expect to be able to leave on bona fide papers. But then again, we can contest an asylum claim post acceptance if new information comes to light or revoke it, including for the reason that there's reasonable grounds to believe them to be a threat (we don't have to prove anything). So all fairly moot.

The issue isn't, as far as I'm aware, one of whether we can kick him out or not, it's the fact that we're having trouble dispatching him to where he came from.

[thebish]

False papers, if I recall?

most asylum seekers arrive with no papers (about 80%) or false papers - it's the nature of the beast when you are fleeing a country that doesn't want you to flee...

i'm not totally up to speed with qatada's paperwork route - but the charge that he arrived with false papers is hardly unusual in cases of asylum seekers.

I agree, hardly would expect to be able to leave on bona fide papers. But then again, we can contest an asylum claim post acceptance if new information comes to light or revoke it, including for the reason that there's reasonable grounds to believe them to be a threat (we don't have to prove anything). So all fairly moot.

The issue isn't, as far as I'm aware, one of whether we can kick him out or not, it's the fact that we're having trouble dispatching him to where he came from.

indeed - and we will continue to do so unless something major changes...
it may be moot - but you raised the false papers with a question mark as if it needed to be addressed!

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Our security services and Government have to make this judgement - who else can?! You can see some of what he is accused of around the world. It's true that we as individual citizens are very poorly equipped to make the call as to how seriously to take these accusations - could it really be any other way?

aye - they could put him on trial...

I understand bobo's argument - he doesn't like him, it seems, because he fails to behave with the good manners expected of a guest. I think that's the argument.

But I'm having difficulty working out how he is a threat to our national security. He condones Jihadist violence, which is appalling, in the past he has advocated it, but I don't feel it's threatening to our national security. If there is a link between him and any Jihadist violence while he has been resident here, make the case. What is to be lost by doing it? He himself has never been told why he is undergoing lengthy imprisonment or -effectively - house arrest for ten years. This is Kafkaesque. He can't refute anything if he doesn't even know what is alleged.

What's difficult to understand?

The case can be made for a 'link', as you put it, but that's not enough for the sort of criminal trial you say you want.

Indeed, the case has been made for the link - in order to get detention without trial or control orders (as they used to be called), the Home Secretary has to make the case to a judge to get permission.

Our authorities (and others) think Qatada committed crimes of terrorism in Jordan and then went on to have close links with Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda. Even if all this is only believed to a balance of probabilities standard, what is the responsible thing for our Government to do? If that CV doesn't mark you out as being a 'threat to national security' (and a threat tends to be something that is unrealised), then what does?

In terms of 'what can be lost' - declaring what you know and how you know it just isn't possible in some cases.

If all this was happening to dozens of people every year, then I would understand the alarm at a lapse in due process, but it is clear that this kind of action is only taken in very exceptional circumstances.

[bobo the clown]

Google Chrome & all the shite it brings with it.

I've avoided Chrome since letting it upload a year or so ago as I found lots of functionalities I had on other things started messing about.

Last Friday I needed something adding, in so doing it offered me Chrome & I made a positive decision to give it a crack again. Since then I have had no end of shite happening. I went to a system restore last night & also reviewed new programmes uploaded since Friday. Piles of it, all shite.

Took almost 90 min to totally clean up but I'm back to my previous mundane, and happy, existance.

[Il Pirate]

....and then went on to have close links with Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda.


So did previous British and American governments.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

....and then went on to have close links with Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda.


So did previous British and American governments.

Well what do you think the purpose of making those links was, in the cases of the British and US governements?

[Lord Kangana]

Ideologlical empire building. Would be the correct answer.

[bwfcdan94]

Just moved into my new house on Tuesday afternoon which I did not want to move in (wanted to stay in the old one). In doing so one of my cats smashed open his cage door just as we were about to open the door of the new house and has escaped. My dad reckons he saw him late last night at the bottom of the road but not a peep since. He does have a brother who also lives with us and we have managed to get him inside fine and am considering letting him out to try to find him. They are both 1.5 years old and are big farm cats who mean the world to me, what do you think folks .

[Bruce Rioja]

Have you moved far, Dan? The escapee will try to find its way back to your last house as, probably, will the other one if you let it out. Keep the one that's in the house inside for 2 weeks before letting out.

That was the advice that I was given when I moved.

[TANGODANCER]

Just moved into my new house on Tuesday afternoon which I did not want to move in (wanted to stay in the old one). In doing so one of my cats smashed open his cage door just as we were about to open the door of the new house and has escaped. My dad reckons he saw him late last night at the bottom of the road but not a peep since. He does have a brother who also lives with us and we have managed to get him inside fine and am considering letting him out to try to find him. They are both 1.5 years old and are big farm cats who mean the world to me, what do you think folks .

How far away have you moved? If it isn't a a long way the cat might have legged it back to your old home. Just a thought.

Edit. Hadn't seen Bruce's post when I sent this.

[clapton is god]

My daughters cat escaped back to Chorlton 12 times over a period of about a year before it finally settled down at the new address. It was a distance of about four or five miles as the crow flies (or the cat waddles), so hardly The Incredible Journey but how on earth does a cat find its way from one place to another? Well worth looking back at the old place.

[Dujon]

We have only moved a couple of times whilst being owned by cats and, fortunately, have not had a deserter. Your missing mog is some tough beast if he could smash open his cage door given that most of them are secured by small but solid metal pins. I concur with the others who have suggested checking back at the old place, Dan.

Likewise I agree with Bruce, but with an amendment. Cats can be very nervous when introduced to new territory. That nervousness may well be displayed by their attitude - but not always. I have found that when cats are agitated they will sweat through their paws. My advice:

A) As Bruce mentioned, keep them inside for a while (see later) at least until they become comfortable with their new indoor surroundings.

B) Once they settle down then make up a little harness that you can slip around their body (thick string will do) using the front legs as an anchor point, with a loop at your end of the leash to slip over your wrist. If you don't make that loop there's every chance that a sudden start of the cat will whip the leash away from you before you have time to react. Take the cat(s) for a little walk around the front and back of your new house once or twice a day. Give them plenty of time to explore and allow them to go where they will other than back indoors or over your boundaries. Keep up your routine until you are reasonably sure that the cat knows its new territory.

C) If keeping the cat inside is inconvenient (e.g. the need for some sort of cat tray) then use method B from the start, but only for the length of time it takes for them to do their doings. This can be frustrating to you but a nervous cat needs time.

[Annoyed Grunt]

"Don't bounce on your bed, you'll break it"

"Ok, I won't"

"Stop bouncing on your bed, you'll break it"..................crack!!!

Broken bed, FFS!

[thebish]

"Don't bounce on your bed, you'll break it"

"Ok, I won't"

"Stop bouncing on your bed, you'll break it"..................crack!!!

Broken bed, FFS!

that's the missus in the dog house then...

[Annoyed Grunt]

"Don't bounce on your bed, you'll break it"

"Ok, I won't"

"Stop bouncing on your bed, you'll break it"..................crack!!!

Broken bed, FFS!

that's the missus in the dog house then...

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Had a sandstorm for the last 2 days and no signs of it abating My lungs feel like I've smoked a carton of smokes

[TANGODANCER]

Had a sandstorm for the last 2 days and no signs of it abating My lungs feel like I've smoked a carton of smokes

Clear blue sky, sun shining and spring really in the air here. "Oh, to be in England now that April's there!" . A win against the pretenders and it'll be "perfick"

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Had a sandstorm for the last 2 days and no signs of it abating My lungs feel like I've smoked a carton of smokes

Clear blue sky, sun shining and spring really in the air here. "Oh, to be in England now that April's there!" . A win against the pretenders and it'll be "perfick"

I'm not used to more than 24 hours without sunshine. It is quite disconcerting Still, as you say, 3 points and all will seem better