Coyle vs Megson

[Lost Leopard Spot]

That's quite a good argument. But on the flip side, would Coyle have spent it as wisely?

It's implied in that question that Megson spent the money wisely; I don't agree with that statement. There were good signings like Cahill, Taylor, Lee, and Klasnic, but plenty of bad ones. Elmander came in for a club record fee, had 6 good months in 3 years, and left for nothing. Some of the transfer fees we paid were dramatically inflated. Muamba, with all due respect, was never a £6 million player. Steinsson, Knight, and Shittu cost way more than they were worth. And a lot of his loan and free signings took considerable wages while contributing absolutely nothing.

I think both managers were tactically inept. It's a lot easier to cover that ineptitude with £6+ million players than with £2 million players.

This is the post of the thread although I disagree that Taylor was a good signing.He was an overpriced Portsmouth reject imo.What's a fact is we lost money on him.
The small amount of money Coyle was given it would need a good manger to keep us up.Megson should have kept a team up with the amount of money he was given.
Of all Megson's poor signings, knowing we needed to replace the massive creative void in our central midfield since Okocha's departure and paying a club record for a midfielder on Muamba was the worst.
As Dougie has shown, you can sign a useful midfield tackler for a tenth of that if you know the foreign transfer market.Not that im impressed with Dougie generally but Medo is a very good signing.
Both were poor managers, should never have been appointed in Megson's case and was sacked a year too late in Coyle's.I'd have them both over Sammy Lee who was even worse.

Megson signed players capable of maintaining a premiership position.

People might go on about Taylor, but he's currently still in the premiership. And his goals helped keep us up a couple of times.

Take Elmander out and virtually all the players Megson signed were from the same sort of priced shops as Coyle shopped in. Ok Megson might have gone a bit more regularly but it's a myth that Megson shopped in M&S and Coyle in Aldi.

Megson had the chance to shop more often.

But the NGog fee would have bought all of Megson's signings but Elmander and Muamba.

But that's not taking into account football fee inflation which has risen relentlessly (example the British club transfer fee record quadrupled betweem Anelka in 1999 and Ronaldo in 2009).

[TKIZ!]

That's quite a good argument. But on the flip side, would Coyle have spent it as wisely?

It's implied in that question that Megson spent the money wisely; I don't agree with that statement. There were good signings like Cahill, Taylor, Lee, and Klasnic, but plenty of bad ones. Elmander came in for a club record fee, had 6 good months in 3 years, and left for nothing. Some of the transfer fees we paid were dramatically inflated. Muamba, with all due respect, was never a £6 million player. Steinsson, Knight, and Shittu cost way more than they were worth. And a lot of his loan and free signings took considerable wages while contributing absolutely nothing.

I think both managers were tactically inept. It's a lot easier to cover that ineptitude with £6+ million players than with £2 million players.

This is the post of the thread although I disagree that Taylor was a good signing.He was an overpriced Portsmouth reject imo.What's a fact is we lost money on him.
The small amount of money Coyle was given it would need a good manger to keep us up.Megson should have kept a team up with the amount of money he was given.
Of all Megson's poor signings, knowing we needed to replace the massive creative void in our central midfield since Okocha's departure and paying a club record for a midfielder on Muamba was the worst.
As Dougie has shown, you can sign a useful midfield tackler for a tenth of that if you know the foreign transfer market.Not that im impressed with Dougie generally but Medo is a very good signing.
Both were poor managers, should never have been appointed in Megson's case and was sacked a year too late in Coyle's.I'd have them both over Sammy Lee who was even worse.

Not spoiling for a fight Martin but how come you don't rate Dougie that highly?

I don't think we have the points total we should have in Dougie's time, i think we have better players than Hull who are going to finish 2nd.Dougie's away record is poor and hasn't shown any sign of improving.Any team that puts us under pressure away from home scores a goal, Leicester was as flimsy as ever.He has vastly improved the home form after a disgusting start against the likes of Barnsley, Ipswich and Sheff Wed so credit for that

Fair enough, that we've been pretty rubbish away from home for at least the last three managers and these things can take there time to turn round

[as]

I still like Coyle and anyone who doesn't is a DMB and a bumder.....

[thebish]

Take Elmander out and virtually all the players Megson signed were from the same sort of priced shops as Coyle shopped in. Ok Megson might have gone a bit more regularly but it's a myth that Megson shopped in M&S and Coyle in Aldi.

ok.....

let's have a look...

Megson signings:

Gretar Rafn Steinsson £3,500,000
Matthew Taylor £3,500,000
Gary Cahill £5,000,000
Fabrice Muamba £5,000,000
Johan Elmander £10,000,000
Mustapha Riga
Dan Shittu Watford £2,000,000
Mark Davies
Sean Davis Portsmouth
Mark Connolly £1,000,000
Zat Knight A£4,000,000
Sam Ricketts
Chung-Yong Lee £2,200,000

Coyles signings

Stuart Holden
Paul Robinson £1,000,000
Robbie Blake
Martin Petrov
Marcos Alonso
Ivan Klasnic
Tom Eaves Oldham
David Wheater £2,300,000
Nigel Reo-Coker
Darren Pratley
Chris Eagles
Tyrone Mears
David Ngog Liverpool £4,000,000
Tim Ream £2,500,000
Marvin Sordell £3,000,000
Greg Wylde


so let's do your sum...

But the NGog fee would have bought all of Megson's signings but Elmander and Muamba.

Ngog fee = £4,000,000

all megson's signings except Elmander and muamba = £21,200,000

I suggest you are talking out of your arse!!!!

also - they had the same shopping experience???

Megson spent £36million give-or-take (allowing for undiscloseds etc..)
Coyle spent £13million give-or-take (allowing for undiscloseds etc..)


say what you like about their relative merits as managers - but your numbers are just not adding up there...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Take Elmander out and virtually all the players Megson signed were from the same sort of priced shops as Coyle shopped in. Ok Megson might have gone a bit more regularly but it's a myth that Megson shopped in M&S and Coyle in Aldi.

ok.....

let's have a look...

Megson signings:

Gretar Rafn Steinsson £3,500,000
Matthew Taylor £3,500,000
Gary Cahill £5,000,000
Fabrice Muamba £5,000,000
Johan Elmander £10,000,000
Mustapha Riga
Dan Shittu Watford £2,000,000
Mark Davies
Sean Davis Portsmouth
Mark Connolly £1,000,000
Zat Knight A£4,000,000
Sam Ricketts
Chung-Yong Lee £2,200,000

Coyles signings

Stuart Holden
Paul Robinson £1,000,000
Robbie Blake
Martin Petrov
Marcos Alonso
Ivan Klasnic
Tom Eaves Oldham
David Wheater £2,300,000
Nigel Reo-Coker
Darren Pratley
Chris Eagles
Tyrone Mears
David Ngog Liverpool £4,000,000
Tim Ream £2,500,000
Marvin Sordell £3,000,000
Greg Wylde


so let's do your sum...

But the NGog fee would have bought all of Megson's signings but Elmander and Muamba.

Ngog fee = £4,000,000

all megson's signings except Elmander and muamba = £21,200,000

I suggest you are talking out of your arse!!!!

also - they had the same shopping experience???

Megson spent £36million give-or-take (allowing for undiscloseds etc..)
Coyle spent £13million give-or-take (allowing for undiscloseds etc..)


say what you like about their relative merits as managers - but your numbers are just not adding up there...

And you got to take into account football fee inflation which rises inexorably and therefore decreases the value of money...

[plymouth wanderer]

Take Elmander out and virtually all the players Megson signed were from the same sort of priced shops as Coyle shopped in. Ok Megson might have gone a bit more regularly but it's a myth that Megson shopped in M&S and Coyle in Aldi.

ok.....

let's have a look...

Megson signings:

Gretar Rafn Steinsson £3,500,000
Matthew Taylor £3,500,000
Gary Cahill £5,000,000
Fabrice Muamba £5,000,000
Johan Elmander £10,000,000
Mustapha Riga
Dan Shittu Watford £2,000,000
Mark Davies
Sean Davis Portsmouth
Mark Connolly £1,000,000
Zat Knight A£4,000,000
Sam Ricketts
Chung-Yong Lee £2,200,000

Coyles signings

Stuart Holden
Paul Robinson £1,000,000
Robbie Blake
Martin Petrov
Marcos Alonso
Ivan Klasnic
Tom Eaves Oldham
David Wheater £2,300,000
Nigel Reo-Coker
Darren Pratley
Chris Eagles
Tyrone Mears
David Ngog Liverpool £4,000,000
Tim Ream £2,500,000
Marvin Sordell £3,000,000
Greg Wylde


so let's do your sum...

But the NGog fee would have bought all of Megson's signings but Elmander and Muamba.

Ngog fee = £4,000,000

all megson's signings except Elmander and muamba = £21,200,000

I suggest you are talking out of your arse!!!!

also - they had the same shopping experience???

Megson spent £36million give-or-take (allowing for undiscloseds etc..)
Coyle spent £13million give-or-take (allowing for undiscloseds etc..)


say what you like about their relative merits as managers - but your numbers are just not adding up there...

BWFCI got wet willyed

[Beefheart]

I think he meant the 4m spent on Ngog would have bought each of Megsons signings individually (except Muamba and Elmander which each cost more than £4m). I'm not sure what point that proves exactly though.

[thebish]

I think he meant the 4m spent on Ngog would have bought each of Megsons signings individually (except Muamba and Elmander which each cost more than £4m). I'm not sure what point that proves exactly though.

and even that wouldn't be true... you'd have to ignore Cahill... (which is a big leave!)

[boltonboris]

[thebish]

[BWFC_Insane]

I think he meant the 4m spent on Ngog would have bought each of Megsons signings individually (except Muamba and Elmander which each cost more than £4m). I'm not sure what point that proves exactly though.

That is what I meant so Bish wasted quite a bit of time there.

But yes Cahill and Muamba were 1M more.

My point was that Megson signed a greater number of players yes. But broadly speaking he wasn't shopping in different shops. He just went more often (and there is another argument about the relative positions they picked the club up in).

[thebish]

I think he meant the 4m spent on Ngog would have bought each of Megsons signings individually (except Muamba and Elmander which each cost more than £4m). I'm not sure what point that proves exactly though.

That is what I meant so Bish wasted quite a bit of time there.

But yes Cahill and Muamba were 1M more.

My point was that Megson signed a greater number of players yes. But broadly speaking he wasn't shopping in different shops. He just went more often (and there is another argument about the relative positions they picked the club up in).

yes he was!!

Coyle got one visit to the £4mill shop

Megson got an outing to that same shop - but also TWO outings to the £5mill shop

and a big day out at the £10mill shop!!

in fact - megson's three outings to the 3 more expensive shops totally eclipsed Coyle's entire budget on their own!

[jaffka]

So he spent a lot more money on shite then if all coyles similar signings were shite. There we have it then megson was shite.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

A few things that occur to me reading these last few pages:

1. A question - are we sure Elmander cost as much as that?!
2. It's not really good enough to write "Coyle spent £13million give-or-take (allowing for undiscloseds etc..)" when your list of 16 purchases only has five names with a purchase price next to them. especially when being compared to a list of 13 names with nine prices listed.
3. I think we'd have made money on Muamba if: (a) his heart hadn't packed in; and (b) he'd been used properly by a decent manager.

[thebish]

A few things that occur to me reading these last few pages:

1. A question - are we sure Elmander cost as much as that?!
2. It's not really good enough to write "Coyle spent £13million give-or-take (allowing for undiscloseds etc..)" when your list of 16 purchases only has five names with a purchase price next to them. especially when being compared to a list of 13 names with nine prices listed.
3. I think we'd have made money on Muamba if: (a) his heart hadn't packed in; and (b) he'd been used properly by a decent manager.

i simply relied on soccerbase for the transfers - if you have a better source with accurate prices - please share!

do you think Coyle spent £20million in total? if so - how are you working that out?

my figures served their purpose - to disprove the assertion that "the NGog fee would have bought all of Megson's signings but Elmander and Muamba." (whichever way it is interpreted) - I wasn't looking for the figures to prove anything else - I certainly wasn't discussing Muamba's potential resale value... so - on reflection - for the purpose they were used, I am very happy with them.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

A few things that occur to me reading these last few pages:

1. A question - are we sure Elmander cost as much as that?!
2. It's not really good enough to write "Coyle spent £13million give-or-take (allowing for undiscloseds etc..)" when your list of 16 purchases only has five names with a purchase price next to them. especially when being compared to a list of 13 names with nine prices listed.
3. I think we'd have made money on Muamba if: (a) his heart hadn't packed in; and (b) he'd been used properly by a decent manager.

i simply relied on soccerbase for the transfers - if you have a better source with accurate prices - please share!

do you think Coyle spent £20million in total? if so - how are you working that out?

I have no idea - but the way you present those numbers is ridiculous.

Eagles was a decent chunk of money on his own, wasn't he?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Ok, perhaps I did miss the narrower context.

[Beefheart]

A few things that occur to me reading these last few pages:

1. A question - are we sure Elmander cost as much as that?!
2. It's not really good enough to write "Coyle spent £13million give-or-take (allowing for undiscloseds etc..)" when your list of 16 purchases only has five names with a purchase price next to them. especially when being compared to a list of 13 names with nine prices listed.
3. I think we'd have made money on Muamba if: (a) his heart hadn't packed in; and (b) he'd been used properly by a decent manager.

i simply relied on soccerbase for the transfers - if you have a better source with accurate prices - please share!

do you think Coyle spent £20million in total? if so - how are you working that out?

Your list misses out around £3m for Eagles and Mears to begin with, and around £2.2m for Alonso. That's not far off £20m. It also misses signings from his last transfer window, which includes Matt Mills for a couple of mill I believe, and a small amount for Lonergan.

[thebish]

A few things that occur to me reading these last few pages:

1. A question - are we sure Elmander cost as much as that?!
2. It's not really good enough to write "Coyle spent £13million give-or-take (allowing for undiscloseds etc..)" when your list of 16 purchases only has five names with a purchase price next to them. especially when being compared to a list of 13 names with nine prices listed.
3. I think we'd have made money on Muamba if: (a) his heart hadn't packed in; and (b) he'd been used properly by a decent manager.

i simply relied on soccerbase for the transfers - if you have a better source with accurate prices - please share!

do you think Coyle spent £20million in total? if so - how are you working that out?

I have no idea - but the way you present those numbers is ridiculous.

Eagles was a decent chunk of money on his own, wasn't he?

I don't know - was he?

as I said - the figures served a particular purpose in challenging the assertion that "the NGog fee would have bought all of Megson's signings but Elmander and Muamba."

if you want figures to prove summat else - go find them! my figures served the purpose pretty conclusively, i think. no?

[thebish]

A few things that occur to me reading these last few pages:

1. A question - are we sure Elmander cost as much as that?!
2. It's not really good enough to write "Coyle spent £13million give-or-take (allowing for undiscloseds etc..)" when your list of 16 purchases only has five names with a purchase price next to them. especially when being compared to a list of 13 names with nine prices listed.
3. I think we'd have made money on Muamba if: (a) his heart hadn't packed in; and (b) he'd been used properly by a decent manager.

i simply relied on soccerbase for the transfers - if you have a better source with accurate prices - please share!

do you think Coyle spent £20million in total? if so - how are you working that out?

Your list misses out around £3m for Eagles and Mears to begin with, and around £2.2m for Alonso. That's not far off £20m. It also misses signings from his last transfer window, which includes Matt Mills for a couple of mill I believe, and a small amount for Lonergan.

soccerbase... (had i looked elsewhere BWFCi would have been upset that I had "wasted" even more time!! )

soccerbase has this for Coyle's last window:

Keith Andrews West Brom Free 29 Jun, 2012
Joe McKee Burnley Signed 03 Jul, 2012
Matthew Mills Leicester Signed 04 Jul, 2012
Andy Lonergan Leeds Signed 17 Jul, 2012

which is no help...