The Great Art Debate

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

No, I'll definitely be in Capri from Thursday on, but it's difficult to say if/when I'll be in Gracie Fields' bathing establishment.

[Il Pirate]

I hope you enjoy it mummy; my in laws went a few years ago, say it was truly stunning.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Right, LLS, I promise this is the last time I will detain you with this.

Oh so altruistically, I decided to buy a book - Turner In Italy - as a gift for the son from the family in Capri (who are accommodating us in their guesthouse http://www.anticomonasteroanacapri.com/ ... x_eng.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; at a significant discount for 6 nights from tomorrow) with whom I was discussing this.

I now think that it was really quite likely that Turner saw the Faraglioni when he was in Italy. I now know for certain that he arrived in Naples on 16 October 1819 and left there less than 3 weeks later to head back to Rome on 4 November. Crucially in that time he had visited Paestum from Naples, and made the return journey by sea, meaning one way or another he would have passed the south eastern tip of Capri (where the Faraglioni are) in a boat.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Right, LLS, I promise this is the last time I will detain you with this.

Oh so altruistically, I decided to buy a book - Turner In Italy - as a gift for the son from the family in Capri (who are accommodating us in their guesthouse http://www.anticomonasteroanacapri.com/ ... x_eng.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; at a significant discount for 6 nights from tomorrow) with whom I was discussing this.

I now think that it was really quite likely that Turner saw the Faraglioni when he was in Italy. I now know for certain that he arrived in Naples on 16 October 1819 and left there less than 3 weeks later to head back to Rome on 4 November. Crucially in that time he had visited Paestum from Naples, and made the return journey by sea, meaning one way or another he would have passed the south eastern tip of Capri (where the Faraglioni are) in a boat.

Ok, I shall look into what we said, but it will be tomorrow at earliest as I'm presently de-icing my dog, my wife and myself.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Now that it is confirmed he was there at the Faraglioni I can amend my summary and conclusion thus:

SUMMARY
1807 Turner conceived of painting Ulysses Deriding Polyphemus
1819 Turner visited Italy and saw the Faraglioni
1827-1828 Turner did a series of oil sketches on four canvas rolls: two on the Isle of Wight, and Two in Rome. There was a sketch of sea stacks similar to Ulysses Deriding Polyphemus in the first IoW roll. The first painting on the first Roman roll was a sketch of Ulysses Deriding Polyphemus. (Turner never painted on rolls again).
1829 Turner painted Ulysses Deriding Polyphemus. It was exhibited later that year at the RA.

CONCLUSION
It would appear that the sketch of Ulysses Deriding Polyphemus from its position on the roll was the first sketch that Turner did in Rome. As his route can be traced coming in from the north it is very unlikely that he revisited Capri again(quite a distance to the south of Rome). It would furthermore appear that he had the idea for a painting with sea stacks from his visit to the Isle of Wight the year before, although the sketches he did there were idealised versions of seastacks and not actual representations of the Needles. It is probable that his visit to the Faraglioni at Capri some nine years previously had made a powerful impression on him, and influenced, when in Rome, the ‘Italianising’ of his more recent sketch of the Needles. As his sketch of Ulysses was not available to him when painting the actual canvas back in Blighty, but his Isle of Wight sketch roll was, the final canvas was probably derived from his memory of one sketch supplemented by the actual IoW sketch in front of him (especially if the IoW sketch was the inspiration for the Italian sketch) all based on his initial impression of his visit to Faraglioni.
The IoW sketch was the direct result of specific experiences even if not actually painted on the spot, whereas the Italian sketches and paintings, and not just the Polythemus, are essays in composition executed in a Roman studio using inspirations from the surrounding countryside but relying more on memory than direct observation.
As one author put it “Turner’s visit to Rome in 1828-9 produced [a] generally more imaginative… increasingly diffuse, atmospherically-focused style… his vision was becoming more assimilated and likely to be expressed in future through memory or imaginative synthesis”
I conclude that his seascape rocks in Ulysses Deriding Polyphemus are an imaginative Italianised rendering of the Needles influenced by a his memory of a visit to the Faraglioni some ten years prior to his sketches on the Isle of Wight.

[TANGODANCER]

Chanced on this image of Lulworth Cove, Dorset. Not too disimilar to the general concept..

[Raven]

Sure thats actually Durdle Door, just up from Lulworth cove, nice bit of coastline all around there and would happily move there tomorrow

[thebish]

Sure thats actually Durdle Door, just up from Lulworth cove, nice bit of coastline all around there and would happily move there tomorrow

indeed it is... toured that whole area (jurassic coast?) a few years ago on holiday - lovely!

[thebish]

pretty stunning drawing technique here..



http://www.thisiscolossal.com/2013/06/3 ... mon-bruin/

[thebish]

loads more of his stuff here:

http://www.mymodernmet.com/profiles/blo ... n-drawings

[William the White]

loads more of his stuff here:

http://www.mymodernmet.com/profiles/blo ... n-drawings

Just brilliant - I do have a bit of a shrug, like, 'so what?'... But as craft... mind blowing...

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

loads more of his stuff here:

http://www.mymodernmet.com/profiles/blo ... n-drawings

Just brilliant - I do have a bit of a shrug, like, 'so what?'... But as craft... mind blowing...

I agree... though I suppose it is another reminder of the 'treachery of images'... and we forget often enough to need reminding.

I wonder what his methods are. The mastery of perspective is incredible but does he take a calculated, mathematical approach, or is it all by eye?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

loads more of his stuff here:

http://www.mymodernmet.com/profiles/blo ... n-drawings

Just brilliant - I do have a bit of a shrug, like, 'so what?'... But as craft... mind blowing...

I agree... though I suppose it is another reminder of the 'treachery of images'... and we forget often enough to need.

I wonder what his methods are. The mastery of perspective is incredible but does he take a calculated, mathematical approach, or is it all by eye?

Don't know about him in particular, but I know one of the pavement artists who do the 3D drawings of caverns etc on the streets of London, and his is just natural talent all drawn by eye, no measurements or math techniques, he just draws.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Lots of artistic highlights from my recent travels in Campania.

I saw two of the three Caravaggios in Naples, lots of other Rennaissance and Neopolitan paintings and some terrific classic sculpture, mosaics and frescoes...

But I think the one thing that sticks out in my mind as being geuinely unlike anything I have ever seen elsewhere on my travels is the 'Cristo Velato' (Veiled Christ), produced by Giuseppe Sanmartino in 1753 at the age of 33.









An haunting vision, even for a devout atheist like me, executed very sensitively and with a lot of skill.

It might also be the most astonishing example of an artistic one hit wonder I have ever seen. As far as I am a aware, Sanmartino produced nothing else of note.

[William the White]

Miro's Ballerina II:

I liked that so much that I told my wife I'd like a print of it. I have it on good authority that a framed print may be arriving just in time for my birthday in a few days time.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Miro's Ballerina II:

I liked that so much that I told my wife I'd like a print of it. I have it on good authority that a framed print may be arriving just in time for my birthday in a few days time.

I can guess Tango's view of same.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Miro's Ballerina II:

I liked that so much that I told my wife I'd like a print of it. I have it on good authority that a framed print may be arriving just in time for my birthday in a few days time.

I can guess Tango's view of same.

Pretty similar to mine I assume. Meh.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I liked that so much that I told my wife I'd like a print of it. I have it on good authority that a framed print may be arriving just in time for my birthday in a few days time.

Delighted to have put you in touch with something you like (if I am indeed responsible...).

[William the White]

I liked that so much that I told my wife I'd like a print of it. I have it on good authority that a framed print may be arriving just in time for my birthday in a few days time.

Delighted to have put you in touch with something you like (if I am indeed responsible...).

You are indeed.

I'm a Miro fan, but didn't know that one. We have a print of the piece he did for Amnesty on our living room wall; this will sit nicely beside it. I think it's joyful. The Amnesty piece is disturbing. The combination works for me.

[bobo the clown]

Miro's Ballerina II:

I liked that so much that I told my wife I'd like a print of it. I have it on good authority that a framed print may be arriving just in time for my birthday in a few days time.

I can guess Tango's view of same.

Pretty similar to mine I assume. Meh.

What's the thing dangling out of her ass ??