The Politics Thread

[BWFC_Insane]

For me it's hard to argue against the concept of the bedroom tax in that folk in all other forms of private rented housing have their housing benefit reduced for each unoccupied bedroom. However, it's not hard to see why folk who may originally have been living with a partner & child, and are now in a 2 bed property on their own, will struggle to suddenly find a tenner a week out of theur universal credit.

The biggest scandal though imo, is that the whole idea behind it was to encourage folk in council properties larger than they need, to look at downsizing and then they excluded pensioners. The largest group of folk who are underoccupying social housing OAPs were included in the original draft but were allegedly written out after a group of em harangued Grant Schapps at some public meeting and he bottled it.

The Tories are scared of upsetting the wrinklies. Always will be the case.

[Bruce Rioja]

So - council house dwellers go 'cap in hand' now do they?

Yes. Tell me otherwise.

[Prufrock]

The pensioners thing is no surprise.

The problem with the bedroom tax is that, while it sounds good in principle, these smaller houses don't exist. If the thing was conditional on people turning down a smaller, available place it would be one thing, but it isn't the case. I can't remember the exact numbers, but the figures I read for certain areas were something like 10% of the necessary smaller houses were available.

[William the White]

So - council house dwellers go 'cap in hand' now do they?

Yes. Tell me otherwise.

Well, to give it a go... by that logic I went cap in hand to ask the council to educate my children and cap in hand to ask Bolton Hospital to put a stent in my artery... It's called social provision... I know you have a problem with this...

[Bruce Rioja]

So - council house dwellers go 'cap in hand' now do they?

Yes. Tell me otherwise.

Well, to give it a go... by that logic I went cap in hand to ask the council to educate my children and cap in hand to ask Bolton Hospital to put a stent in my artery... It's called social provision... I know you have a problem with this...

We're talking specifically about housing. You've already paid for those add-ons. Do the council chip-in towards your mortgage payments? Do you have unused bedrooms? Are they paid for by 'social provision'?

Are you happy for families not to have sufficient housing provision whilst single people live in multi-bedroom 'social provision' houses?

[William the White]

So - council house dwellers go 'cap in hand' now do they?

Yes. Tell me otherwise.

Well, to give it a go... by that logic I went cap in hand to ask the council to educate my children and cap in hand to ask Bolton Hospital to put a stent in my artery... It's called social provision... I know you have a problem with this...

We're talking specifically about housing. You've already paid for those add-ons. Do the council chip-in towards your mortgage payments? Do you have unused bedrooms? Are they paid for by 'social provision'?

Are you happy for families not to have sufficient housing provision whilst single people live in multi-bedroom 'social provision' houses?

Not at all - here we were talking about your view of council house residents being beggars who had gone 'cap in hand' to humbly request a roof over their head. The head which was bare because they had their cap in hand. And, since we both live in bolton we know the bare head was dripping with the rain... A moving and pathetic sight they looked, n all...

I was, in this instance, challenging you simply on your ideology... You replied saying you stood by it...

[thebish]

Living within your means applies to everybody. Wouldn't you agree? I'm stunned by the reaction of supposed Socialists to the 'Bedroom Tax'. I'd have thought that it'd be something you'd be championing to make sure everyone gets a roof over their heads and sufficient room in which to live.

can you elaborate on how the "bedroom tax" helps everyone get a roof over their heads?

[thebish]

The pensioners thing is no surprise.

The problem with the bedroom tax is that, while it sounds good in principle, these smaller houses don't exist.

^this... the nub of the issue...

[Bruce Rioja]

So - council house dwellers go 'cap in hand' now do they?

Yes. Tell me otherwise.

Well, to give it a go... by that logic I went cap in hand to ask the council to educate my children and cap in hand to ask Bolton Hospital to put a stent in my artery... It's called social provision... I know you have a problem with this...

We're talking specifically about housing. You've already paid for those add-ons. Do the council chip-in towards your mortgage payments? Do you have unused bedrooms? Are they paid for by 'social provision'?

Are you happy for families not to have sufficient housing provision whilst single people live in multi-bedroom 'social provision' houses?

Not at all - here we were talking about your view of council house residents being beggars who had gone 'cap in hand' to humbly request a roof over their head. The head which was bare because they had their cap in hand. And, since we both live in bolton we know the bare head was dripping with the rain... A moving and pathetic sight they looked, n all...

I was, in this instance, challenging you simply on your ideology... You replied saying you stood by it...

Beggars can't be choosers. The weather's irrelevant. We were talking about the so-called bedroom tax. Avoid the original discussion all you like.

[Bruce Rioja]

The pensioners thing is no surprise.

The problem with the bedroom tax is that, while it sounds good in principle, these smaller houses don't exist.

^this... the nub of the issue...

Oh really? What about this business about people being forced into rent areas? What about that nub? I'll have to check up on smaller houses not existing.

[thebish]

Beggars can't be choosers. The weather's irrelevant. We were talking about the so-called bedroom tax. Avoid the original discussion all you like.

the original discussion was this article..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23122369" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

care to enlighten us how the bedroom tax makes things better - or (as you put it) " makes sure everyone gets a roof over their heads"?

did you read the article? what would you advise a family to do if they had an extra bedroom - but there were no houses with one fewer bedroom available?

can I gently remind you that families don't get housing benefit - landlords do...

[thebish]

The pensioners thing is no surprise.

The problem with the bedroom tax is that, while it sounds good in principle, these smaller houses don't exist.

^this... the nub of the issue...

Oh really? What about this business about people being forced into rent areas? What about that nub? I'll have to check up on smaller houses not existing.

i don't understand what "people being forced into rent areas" means.

report back when you have researched!

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Does this mean the MPs that are claiming for these 2nd homes are paying bedroom tax? I mean, I bet there are a few spare bedrooms knocking around and the taxpayer is partially funding them. Possibly with more money than the average so called lazy work dodgers.

If the government is looking for infrastructure projects, how about they build some appropriate sized social housing. This would save money in the long run and create jobs. They'd even be able to sell them all off again in 20 years time

[thebish]

Does this mean the MPs that are claiming for these 2nd homes are paying bedroom tax? I mean, I bet there are a few spare bedrooms knocking around and the taxpayer is partially funding them. Possibly with more money than the average so called lazy work dodgers.

If the government is looking for infrastructure projects, how about they build some appropriate sized social housing. This would save money in the long run and create jobs. They'd even be able to sell them all off again in 20 years time

indeed - it would seem to be an obvious way to proceed...

[Harry Genshaw]

Agreed, but it will probably never happen.

It was voted for at 4 successive Labour party conferences and everytime was rejected by the the Leadership.

There's lots of costs but very few votes in social housing

[BWFC_Insane]

This is an observation and nothing more.

I find the concept that certain people have "paid" for certain elements of the welfare state they receive and others haven't for parts they receive as quite revealing to how people view the welfare state.

For example, many people will have many NHS treatments that far exceed what they have contributed via taxation. They certainly haven't "paid" for it in any traditional sense.

Now is the NHS deemed more acceptable as it is "free for all", whereas social housing is only available to those in need of it?

I mean I can well believe many people who are in social housing have contributed a lot in tax, possibly a lot more than many who aren't!

[Lord Kangana]

I wouldn't worry about all that, it'll soon all be privatised anyway. And then there'll be fun and games when people realise how much things really cost.

[thebish]

running schools for profit... of course!!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 82395.html

[Gooner Girl]

running schools for profit... of course!!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 82395.html

I don't know much about politics but I do know Michael Gove is a complete lunatic who has not the foggiest idea about teaching and how schools run.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

running schools for profit... of course!!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 82395.html

Gove wont be happy until Morons like this guy are running education

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/parents- ... dOp9T515rY

This is a place where an average quality school often charges more than top universities and MBA courses. It doesn't stop there. They charge designer clothing prices for cheap polyester uniforms (imagine the smell of the kids in 50c+). They'll charge you a couple of grand for the school bus (buses are cheap to buy, petrol about 30p a litre and the driver earns about 400 quid a month), plus a whole myriad of other fees. The best little earner is they charge you 100 quid to apply for a place, or rather to go on a list for a place. What they wont tell you is how large that list is, how they prioritise the list and where you are on the list. They take 100s of deposits, knowing full well the kid wont get in. The parents have to do this for multiple schools and hope they get in one. They have to do this each year until they get in. The fact the lists are so long, people are having to apply years in advance and pay this fee every year and gamble it gets their kid in.

There are some restrictions on fee increases, but as with paying tax, there are many ways round it. If a school can't raise it's fees as it wishes they simply close the school and reopen a new one on the same site a year or two later. Profit comes way before any consideration of the damage this sort of thing does to the education of kids.

Whilst the UK has it's fair share of problems in education, is this the sort of direction that will improve the education of the future?