General Chit Chat

[BWFC_Insane]

in 2012, Jane Austen didn't appear in the top 50 most borrowed authors from UK libraries - nor did any of her books appear in the top 250 most-borrowed books from UK libraries...

Yeah but TD owns a copy of pride and prejudice....

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I find this an odd place to make this point.

Jane Austen is 'popular', whatever the significance of that is, and has been for some time. Her reputation is not based on the critical response of a small literary elite.

I was responding to TD's assertion that Austen is considered one of the literary greats. Who put her on that pedestal other than the literary elite?

Popular opinion!

Who though? Who has pronounced this popularity? Was there a survey? Did I miss it?

Here you go AT tracing Jane Austen's popularity for Dummies...http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/t ... arity.html

[thebish]

is Austen being chosen:

1. because she is popular (there are more popular british women authors)
2. because she is a great literary figure (who judges this?)
3. because she is a good role model (is she? - in what respect?)

4. some other reason

[BWFC_Insane]

And if the point is to provide an inspiration to young women and girls (and thats an IF) then surely it should be someone more relevant and current than Austen?

I mean it's debateable if that is the aim or not, sure, but if it is.....

[Lost Leopard Spot]

is Austen being chosen:

1. because she is popular (there are more popular british women authors)
2. because she is a great literary figure (who judges this?)
3. because she is a good role model (is she? - in what respect?)

4. some other reason

Correct
4. Because she is female.

[BWFC_Insane]

is Austen being chosen:

1. because she is popular (there are more popular british women authors)
2. because she is a great literary figure (who judges this?)
3. because she is a good role model (is she? - in what respect?)

4. some other reason

Correct
4. Because she is female.

She it is claimed, but do we know for sure.......

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I find this an odd place to make this point.

Jane Austen is 'popular', whatever the significance of that is, and has been for some time. Her reputation is not based on the critical response of a small literary elite.

I was responding to TD's assertion that Austen is considered one of the literary greats. Who put her on that pedestal other than the literary elite?

Popular opinion!

Who though? Who has pronounced this popularity? Was there a survey? Did I miss it?

Does popularity not exist without a survey as evidence? It just exists doesn't it?! It's not an official title.

[thebish]

is Austen being chosen:

1. because she is popular (there are more popular british women authors)
2. because she is a great literary figure (who judges this?)
3. because she is a good role model (is she? - in what respect?)

4. some other reason

Correct
4. Because she is female.

other people are female - why this one?

[thebish]

I find this an odd place to make this point.

Jane Austen is 'popular', whatever the significance of that is, and has been for some time. Her reputation is not based on the critical response of a small literary elite.

I was responding to TD's assertion that Austen is considered one of the literary greats. Who put her on that pedestal other than the literary elite?

Popular opinion!

Who though? Who has pronounced this popularity? Was there a survey? Did I miss it?

Does popularity not exist without a survey as evidence? It just exists doesn't it?! It's not an official title.

the library lending figures don't really support the idea that she is particularly popular...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

is Austen being chosen:

1. because she is popular (there are more popular british women authors)
2. because she is a great literary figure (who judges this?)
3. because she is a good role model (is she? - in what respect?)

4. some other reason

Correct
4. Because she is female.

other people are female - why this one?

Because the rules are
a) you need to be dead - she's dead
b) you cannot be foreign - she's not
c) you cannot be fictional - Dot Cotton's out, Austen's in
c) you cannot be warlike - Boudicca's out, Austen's in
d) you cannot be political - Thatcher's out, Austen's in

[thebish]

is Austen being chosen:

1. because she is popular (there are more popular british women authors)
2. because she is a great literary figure (who judges this?)
3. because she is a good role model (is she? - in what respect?)

4. some other reason

Correct
4. Because she is female.

other people are female - why this one?

Because the rules are
a) you need to be dead - she's dead
b) you cannot be foreign - she's not
c) you cannot be fictional - Dot Cotton's out, Austen's in
c) you cannot be warlike - Boudicca's out, Austen's in
d) you cannot be political - Thatcher's out, Austen's in

so - let me get this straight - Austen is the only dead, British, non-fictional, peacemaking, non-political woman we can think of?

is an author who wrote soppy love stories about toff women really the best we can do?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Does popularity not exist without a survey as evidence? It just exists doesn't it?! It's not an official title.

There needn't be a survey as such, but for it to be a statement of fact I think there should be some form of tangible measure. I would say many people have watched a film based on one her books. I'm sure some enjoyed them too. Even if she were/is popular by some measure, I don't think this should be confused with greatness - which is what I really have the issue with.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

is Austen being chosen:

1. because she is popular (there are more popular british women authors)
2. because she is a great literary figure (who judges this?)
3. because she is a good role model (is she? - in what respect?)

4. some other reason

Correct
4. Because she is female.

other people are female - why this one?

Because the rules are
a) you need to be dead - she's dead
b) you cannot be foreign - she's not
c) you cannot be fictional - Dot Cotton's out, Austen's in
c) you cannot be warlike - Boudicca's out, Austen's in
d) you cannot be political - Thatcher's out, Austen's in

so - let me get this straight - Austen is the only dead, British, non-fictional, peacemaking, non-political woman we can think of?

is an author who wrote soppy love stories about toff women really the best we can do?

We've done Florence Nightingale and Elizabeth Fry. Mary Seacole would be a nurse too far, and Wallis Simpson was a foreigner - so Yes is the answer to your query.

[thebish]

Does popularity not exist without a survey as evidence? It just exists doesn't it?! It's not an official title.

There needn't be a survey as such, but for it to be a statement of fact I think there should be some form of tangible measure. I would say many people have watched a film based on one her books. I'm sure some enjoyed them too. Even if she were/is popular by some measure, I don't think this should be confused with greatness - which is what I really have the issue with.

if it was about popularity - then agatha christie is more popular...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Does popularity not exist without a survey as evidence? It just exists doesn't it?! It's not an official title.

There needn't be a survey as such, but for it to be a statement of fact I think there should be some form of tangible measure. I would say many people have watched a film based on one her books. I'm sure some enjoyed them too. Even if she were/is popular by some measure, I don't think this should be confused with greatness - which is what I really have the issue with.

if it was about popularity - then agatha christie is more popular...

But... but... she disappeared for six months or something - very controversial, wouldn't do at all, no no no.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I reckon I'd be right at home on the Bank of England Historical Figures Choosing Panel

[thebish]

i'd have gone for Mary Somerville or Elizabeth Garrett Anderson or perhaps Rosalind Franklin or Anne McLaren.

i suppose Austen was a safe option - but one which will do little to further the idea that women have contributed significantly to British life and progress...

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

It's odd - I'm usually quite staunchly opposed to tokenism, affirmative action and positive discrimination in most of its guises, but I do think that having women as well as men on the instrument of commerce is something I'd quite like any daughter of mine to grow up seeing. I am not so exercised by the coherence of the case for any particular candidate - as I say, it's just about a bit of 'visibility' for me.

If I were looking to grasp the nettle and start a proper discussion about contributions and progress, I'd put Emmeline Pankhurst on.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

If we were grasping nettles I'd have Fanny Craddock.

[TANGODANCER]

in 2012, Jane Austen didn't appear in the top 50 most borrowed authors from UK libraries - nor did any of her books appear in the top 250 most-borrowed books from UK libraries...

Pride and Prejudice does appear in the top 100 best books of all time, has had at least three films and two major TV series made of it, recently figured in a B.B.C recreation evening and meal and is currently re-showing on the B.B.C Drama series. There have been films of all her books except an unfinished one (Sanditon). Since the internet, e-books etc and also based on book sales,( her works have been in continuous print since 1833) libraries aren't the best judge right now. Jane Austen Societies exist all over the world tours, including a sizeable amount of tourists take place regularly and her home is just as famous as the Bronte Parsonage in Haworth. There is a museum dedicated to her in Bath that has a bigger souvenier line than the Reebok shop and book sales are constantly healthy. They also publish a two-monthy magazine that sells worldwide.

This is a quote from a Radio Times article by Amanda Vickery:

"Today, Austen is a cultural industry with global reach. The Austen brand has outstripped the Brontës, Dickens and Hardy - Austen Inc. may even be more lucrative than Shakespeare."