The Politics Thread

[Hoboh]

You ever been to Gibraltar Hoboh? It's got red phone and telephone boxes etc, and English policemen and women and cars and things and they speak English (well, most of em speak Spanish too). Damndest thing is, when you'r there, despite all that, it all feels a real lot like being in Spain. Odd that.

Not really the point though is it? Based on that we should have just let the Argies bully us into giving away the Falklands.
Spain is a very dependent member of the EU with HUGE problems so aka the Argies, lets rattle our Sabres at the Brits over Gib. Funny they waited till Thatcher was six foot under......
All this proves is the EU means jack to most members except when they want bailing out, why are the Eurocrats not telling the Spanish to behave theirselves? Should we retaliate by charging any Spanish visitin the UK a 40 Euro entry fee? Oh wait the EU will be quick enough to point out to us that would be against European treatys! UKIP will gain if this carrys on.

[Lord Kangana]

Putting silly oh-so-last-century Imperialism to one side, its a bit like Spain owning Anglesey.

Actually, in anticipation of bobo's iminent intervention, I appreciate this wasn't the best comparison....

[Hoboh]

Putting silly oh-so-last-century Imperialism to one side, its a bit like Spain owning Anglesey.

Actually, in anticipation of bobo's iminent intervention, I appreciate this wasn't the best comparison....

Why does history spoil you pro-Europeans idealistic views of the world? Lets rip everything up eh? why not? Our forebearers will turn in their graves given the view of the world according to the young upstarts!

[Bruce Rioja]

So, who do the Gibraltarians wish to be governed by?

[Lord Kangana]

Appreciating that as a thoroughly decent consideration Bruce, but its not like we haven't created this problem ourselves like we did with Northern Island. At the moment I suspect they'd stick with their loose-ties-to-Britain-and-low-taxation. i suspect in a couple of generations the mood will have mellowed (both from those living there, and our Government). Strategically its worth very little to us these days. Once it was (just like Hong Kong, Singapore, Suez, the Falklands etc etc etc...).

Anyway, lets cut the crap, there's no oil under it, and I'm pretty sure there'll be no exploitable shale gas, so our Governments (of whatever stripe) probably won't really give a shit.

[thebish]

For those interested in the "facts" and "figures" that politicians quote - which are often little better than simple bare-faced lies, this is an excellent place to go to check out what you hear politicians glibly claim on the radio...

the link is their most recent example of a stat Michael Gove has extensively quoted to show that his "Free" schools are outperforming state schools and therefore he was right all along... but this isn't an anti-tory site - it's a site simply dedicated to investiogating statistical claims made by politicians and journalists..

http://fullfact.org/factchecks/are_free ... ools-29120

[Lord Kangana]

I've never really understood the political bullshit that surrounds education in this country. if you set up a "free" school (I hate pathetic, superfluous political rhetoric) you're not going to suddenly have a whole new set of teachers. It takes time to train them. I find it a little fantastic to imagine that thrusting young teachers from top public schools in the South East are suddenly going to be overcome with a missionaries zeal to move lock/stock/barrel to, say, Bolton to teach kids here. So you're likely to be recruiting from the same pool, aren't you? You're likely to be using the same curriculum (aren't you?), schools don't build themselves overnight, do they?

So, in reality, what's the actual difference, other than political dogma and a nice big (expensive) sign out the front with the (highly pejorative) word "free" prominently emblazoned upon it?

[Hoboh]

Published: Sun, August 4, 2013
SPAIN is selling a fleet of Mirage fighter jets to Argentina in a £10million deal that fuels suspicions over relations between the nations who are both opposed to British territorial possessions, writes Marco Giannangeli.

President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner approved the deal, which will give Argentina the capability to attack the Falklands with laser-guided bombs. The 20 aircraft sold to the Argentine military are at Spain’s Albacete air base and will be shipped to Tandil air base south of Buenos Aires.

Built in France, the multi-role fighter has a top speed of 1,320mph and a range of 500 miles, boosting Argentina’s ability to “pester” the Falklands from its southern air bases.

Spain will provide spares and a training simulator and will train the initial batch of Argentine air force pilots selected from the military’s Fuerza Aerea Argentina Grupo 6 de Caza of the 6th Air Brigade.

First it was the French with EXOCET missiles Now the Spaniards with French war planes!!!

JUST HOW MUCH EVIDENCE DO YOU BEND OVER AND TAKE IT UP THE BUM FROM YOUR BRUSSELS CHUM PRO-EUROPEAN BRAIN DEADS WANT BEFORE YOU REALISE ALL THEY WANT TO DO IS SHAFT THE UK ENTIRELY!!!

[Lord Kangana]

£10m worth of fighter jets? Is that a set of landing gear or something? Have you seen the stuff we've got Hobo? £10m would probably buy you a new key-fob for one.

[thebish]

^ I'm not really sure Britain can take any moral high ground at all over who we sell weapons to!!

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

^ I'm not really sure Britain can take any moral high ground at all over who we sell weapons to!!

This.

Anyway. How would we deploy jets to the Falklands in any meaningful way? Didn't we flog that capability for 50p and half a mars bar?

[thebish]

£10m worth of fighter jets? Is that a set of landing gear or something? Have you seen the stuff we've got Hobo? £10m would probably buy you a new key-fob for one.

no - it's 20 antique jets....

the RAF are relaxed and reckon the two typhoons we already have there are still perfectly adequate...

[Hoboh]

£10m worth of fighter jets? Is that a set of landing gear or something? Have you seen the stuff we've got Hobo? £10m would probably buy you a new key-fob for one.

no - it's 20 antique jets....

the RAF are relaxed and reckon the two typhoons we already have there are still perfectly adequate...

Not really.

If the said antique's start flying anywhere that looks remotely threatening and we shoot one down, all that will happen is the Belgrano mob will kick off again

[Lord Kangana]

And that did how much good for them last time?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I've never really understood the political bullshit that surrounds education in this country. if you set up a "free" school (I hate pathetic, superfluous political rhetoric) you're not going to suddenly have a whole new set of teachers. It takes time to train them. I find it a little fantastic to imagine that thrusting young teachers from top public schools in the South East are suddenly going to be overcome with a missionaries zeal to move lock/stock/barrel to, say, Bolton to teach kids here. So you're likely to be recruiting from the same pool, aren't you? You're likely to be using the same curriculum (aren't you?), schools don't build themselves overnight, do they?

So, in reality, what's the actual difference, other than political dogma and a nice big (expensive) sign out the front with the (highly pejorative) word "free" prominently emblazoned upon it?

One thing I've never really known - does the word 'free' refer to the fact that a school is free of charge to attend, or that it is 'free' from local authority control?

[thebish]

I've never really understood the political bullshit that surrounds education in this country. if you set up a "free" school (I hate pathetic, superfluous political rhetoric) you're not going to suddenly have a whole new set of teachers. It takes time to train them. I find it a little fantastic to imagine that thrusting young teachers from top public schools in the South East are suddenly going to be overcome with a missionaries zeal to move lock/stock/barrel to, say, Bolton to teach kids here. So you're likely to be recruiting from the same pool, aren't you? You're likely to be using the same curriculum (aren't you?), schools don't build themselves overnight, do they?

So, in reality, what's the actual difference, other than political dogma and a nice big (expensive) sign out the front with the (highly pejorative) word "free" prominently emblazoned upon it?

One thing I've never really known - does the word 'free' refer to the fact that a school is free of charge to attend, or that it is 'free' from local authority control?

the latter, i think

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

That was my understanding too, but LK seemed to suggest he thought it was the former.

[Lord Kangana]

The last thirty years various education ministers have basically been rearranging the deckchairs whilst patting themselves on the back whilst quoting figures that are favourable to their idea. It may sound rather defeatist, but it just feels like we've run out of "big" ideas in this country, we just seem content to shuffle decimal points on spreadsheets about, juggle figures and talk a good game. You'd probably need someone with George Galloway's character to be able to plough through decent reforms these days, and he's never going to be in the political mainstream.

Added to that, we've been having a tit-for-tat between Loacal and National Government over who-controls-what since the late seventies. everyone just seems to have taken their eye off the ball.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Well we abolished selection in education in the last thirty years.

That's a significant(ly detrimental) reform that amounts to more than rearranging the deckchairs.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Putting silly oh-so-last-century Imperialism to one side, its a bit like Spain owning Anglesey.

Actually, in anticipation of bobo's iminent intervention, I appreciate this wasn't the best comparison....

All frivolity to one side. The Spaniards have a bit of a cheek about their argument over Gibraltar seeing as they own Ceuta and Melilla, both of which, if the Spanish argument re Gibraltar held up, would surely be classified as Moroccan.