The Politics Thread

[Harry Genshaw]

well - blimey - parliament has spoken - and voted against our involvement in military strikes - so we won't be doing it... the americans will (probably) - but we won't! I didn't expect that!

Isn't this part of the charade anyway - that we wouldn't be doing anything anyway other than cheering the US on from the sidelines or lobbing a couple of our own over there, at their instruction?

What I found to be a rather measured response from Cameron yesterday, seemed to turn into a mad scramble for action today, well before it's even been confirmed who has used these chemical weapons. I wonder if he jumped the gun a bit with our allies making promises not yet agreed in Parliament? (& not going to be either now)

[William the White]

I feel huge relief - almost joy - that we will not be killing people in Syria any time soon. Though despair that Syrians will be killing each other for a long time (I suspect).

I also feel a real gratitude that the lying and dissembling of Blair in 2003 has now made the British people profoundly sceptical of intervention in the Middle East. So let that be an end of it!

The Americans will probably continue with their adventure. I hope that today's decision has weakened the 'alliance' (as the 'special' relationship between master and poodle is laughably characterised) to the point of rupture, but fear it hasn't.

Well done Ed Milliband on some good political calculation... will be interesting next time Cameron tries to depict him as 'weak, weak, weak)...

I'm looking forward to seeing the list of Tories that voted against Cameron. Are they the UKIP wing playing a long game? Or do they have a conscience?

Anyway, I go to bed in a surprisingly happy mood...

Tories temporarily fecked, no British munitions hitting the middle east, more human beings allowed to live...

Sounds like a result to me...

[Lord Kangana]

I dispute the British munitions claim William. The world's jam-packed with them, probability is not on your side.

[William the White]

I dispute the British munitions claim William. The world's jam-packed with them, probability is not on your side.

Indeed - but, as you know, I meant none launched by British armed forces...

[Lord Kangana]

I still think we'll find a way. Probably when a UN resolution is passed or somesuch.

[a1]

ed the commie probably thinks the 4 million refugees that come runnin' this way after the ex-optician tries setting them on fire again will vote labour.

[Lord Kangana]

About 1 am I think.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Well done Ed Milliband on some good political calculation... will be interesting next time Cameron tries to depict him as 'weak, weak, weak)...

So you think Miliband is 'playing politics' on this in a way that is separate from the substance of the issues?

I have to say that it is still a substance I don't understand. I thought tonight's motion was quite tightly defined so that Britain's involvement would be limited to a humanitarian attempt to prevent the use of chemical weapons on Syrians - once we find out for sure who was responsible.

I'm happy that Britain is staying out of it, but cannot see why you seem to be clear that this is a good result for the Syrian people.

[Montreal Wanderer]

I don't know! I don't know even nearly enough about Syria to pass comment. My point is 'intervention' isn't always wrong. It was right in Kosovo, arguably in Libya, and, I think, in Iraq.

You still believe that intervention in Iraq on the grounds there was irrefutable evidence of weapons of mass destruction was justified? Despite the fact that the UN, whose inspectors were there, asked the "allies" for more time? Despite the fact that invading Iraq without UN sanction is a violation of international law and a war crime? Furthermore do you think the Iraqis are better off, happier, safer than they were under Saddam? You surprise me.

As other have said there are justifications for this type of action and there are the real reasons. In my great grandfather's time, we painted Africa and a lot of the rest of the world red. We were taking "up the white man's burden" and bringing civilization to the "lesser breeds without the law", not to mention propagating the gospel. No economic or strategic interests whatsoever.

[Hoboh]

Well done Ed Milliband on some good political calculation... will be interesting next time Cameron tries to depict him as 'weak, weak, weak)...

So you think Miliband is 'playing politics' on this in a way that is separate from the substance of the issues?

I have to say that it is still a substance I don't understand. I thought tonight's motion was quite tightly defined so that Britain's involvement would be limited to a humanitarian attempt to prevent the use of chemical weapons on Syrians - once we find out for sure who was responsible.

I'm happy that Britain is staying out of it, but cannot see why you seem to be clear that this is a good result for the Syrian people.

You are right, the only good result for the Syrian people would be Assad and his motley crew to vanish, the Islamic nutters on the other side to feck off home and let them decide via a ballot how they want to move on.
It may not work exactly how we think but it would at least be a start.

[BWFC_Insane]

Well done Ed Milliband on some good political calculation... will be interesting next time Cameron tries to depict him as 'weak, weak, weak)...

So you think Miliband is 'playing politics' on this in a way that is separate from the substance of the issues?

I have to say that it is still a substance I don't understand. I thought tonight's motion was quite tightly defined so that Britain's involvement would be limited to a humanitarian attempt to prevent the use of chemical weapons on Syrians - once we find out for sure who was responsible.

I'm happy that Britain is staying out of it, but cannot see why you seem to be clear that this is a good result for the Syrian people.

Syrian person interviewed today who has a husband over there, was in agreement with you Mummy. She wanted military intervention.

My feeling is that I'm not sure on such matters that the "will of the British people" should be taken into account in the way it has. I realise that people are going to be outraged at that, but Syria is such a complex situation that I think such a decision needs to be based on something more definitive and informed than that.

[thebish]

Well done Ed Milliband on some good political calculation... will be interesting next time Cameron tries to depict him as 'weak, weak, weak)...

So you think Miliband is 'playing politics' on this in a way that is separate from the substance of the issues?

I have to say that it is still a substance I don't understand. I thought tonight's motion was quite tightly defined so that Britain's involvement would be limited to a humanitarian attempt to prevent the use of chemical weapons on Syrians - once we find out for sure who was responsible.

I'm happy that Britain is staying out of it, but cannot see why you seem to be clear that this is a good result for the Syrian people.

Syrian person interviewed today who has a husband over there, was in agreement with you Mummy. She wanted military intervention.

hmmmm.... - but NOT what cameron was proposing - she wanted military intervention to depose Assad - cameron was specifically and carefully NOT proposing that.

am finding myself cross this morning that Tory MPs and Paddy Ashdown are now storming the media telling us all how ashamed we should be that the UK is now happy to stand aside and watch children being killed. What was being proposed last night was NEVER aimed at stopping the killing - yet now it is being described as if parliament has voted against some easy way of stopping the syrian conflict.

just heard Ashdown - this morning he sounds like a raving, ludicrous nutjob - seriously! if we disagree with action in syria - why have armed forces at all - he raved...

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

am finding myself cross this morning that Tory MPs and Paddy Ashdown are now storming the media telling us all how ashamed we should be that the UK is now happy to stand aside and watch children being killed. What was being proposed last night was NEVER aimed at stopping the killing - yet now it is being described as if parliament has voted against some easy way of stopping the syrian conflict.

just heard Ashdown - this morning he sounds like a raving, ludicrous nutjob - seriously! if we disagree with action in syria - why have armed forces at all - he raved...

This. Ashdown seems more concerned with influence and prestige than anything else.

[thebish]

am finding myself cross this morning that Tory MPs and Paddy Ashdown are now storming the media telling us all how ashamed we should be that the UK is now happy to stand aside and watch children being killed. What was being proposed last night was NEVER aimed at stopping the killing - yet now it is being described as if parliament has voted against some easy way of stopping the syrian conflict.

just heard Ashdown - this morning he sounds like a raving, ludicrous nutjob - seriously! if we disagree with action in syria - why have armed forces at all - he raved...

This. Ashdown seems more concerned with influence and prestige than anything else.

i've never really liked ashdown - the posturing clown - BUT - this morning he has massively surpassed himself... I could hardly believe what i was hearing...

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

am finding myself cross this morning that Tory MPs and Paddy Ashdown are now storming the media telling us all how ashamed we should be that the UK is now happy to stand aside and watch children being killed. What was being proposed last night was NEVER aimed at stopping the killing - yet now it is being described as if parliament has voted against some easy way of stopping the syrian conflict.

just heard Ashdown - this morning he sounds like a raving, ludicrous nutjob - seriously! if we disagree with action in syria - why have armed forces at all - he raved...

This. Ashdown seems more concerned with influence and prestige than anything else.

i've never really liked ashdown - the posturing clown - BUT - this morning he has massively surpassed himself... I could hardly believe what i was hearing...

I'm not ashamed to say I told the telly to feck off this morning whilst listening to him.

[thebish]

am finding myself cross this morning that Tory MPs and Paddy Ashdown are now storming the media telling us all how ashamed we should be that the UK is now happy to stand aside and watch children being killed. What was being proposed last night was NEVER aimed at stopping the killing - yet now it is being described as if parliament has voted against some easy way of stopping the syrian conflict.

just heard Ashdown - this morning he sounds like a raving, ludicrous nutjob - seriously! if we disagree with action in syria - why have armed forces at all - he raved...

This. Ashdown seems more concerned with influence and prestige than anything else.

i've never really liked ashdown - the posturing clown - BUT - this morning he has massively surpassed himself... I could hardly believe what i was hearing...

I'm not ashamed to say I told the telly to feck off this morning whilst listening to him.

my radio got the same abuse...

[a1]

it just means there'll be two syrian wars. instead of one.

saddam shudda got his neck twisted shut after desert storm. or at least thrown into an oil well fire..

this knob will now have two goes at burnin' folk.

[William the White]

Well done Ed Milliband on some good political calculation... will be interesting next time Cameron tries to depict him as 'weak, weak, weak)...

So you think Miliband is 'playing politics' on this in a way that is separate from the substance of the issues?

I have to say that it is still a substance I don't understand. I thought tonight's motion was quite tightly defined so that Britain's involvement would be limited to a humanitarian attempt to prevent the use of chemical weapons on Syrians - once we find out for sure who was responsible.

I'm happy that Britain is staying out of it, but cannot see why you seem to be clear that this is a good result for the Syrian people.

Syrian person interviewed today who has a husband over there, was in agreement with you Mummy. She wanted military intervention.

My feeling is that I'm not sure on such matters that the "will of the British people" should be taken into account in the way it has. I realise that people are going to be outraged at that, but Syria is such a complex situation that I think such a decision needs to be based on something more definitive and informed than that.

The country is in a civil war. One side will want intervention, the other will not. Both ar killing, maiming and torturing indiscriminately.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

The country is in a civil war. One side will want intervention, the other will not. Both ar killing, maiming and torturing indiscriminately.

My instinct is to leave them to it too, Will.

Glad to be in agreement, for a change.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

http://vine.co/v/hiELuPQtu5H" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Apparently Philip Hammond (yes, that will be the Minister for Defence) referred to Assad as Saddam Hussein twice last night.

What hope is there, really?!