The Politics Thread

[thebish]

1) What does the policy in 1988 have to do with the motives of the govt in 2003

it's quite simple. he was a cock in 1988 - we didn't get rid of him - in fact we cheered him on, gave him weapons and supported him. he was a cock in 2003 and all the years in between.

so - we did not get rid of him because he was a cock (as you suggested). we got rid of him because something else changed. that's all.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

1) What does the policy in 1988 have to do with the motives of the govt in 2003

it's quite simple. he was a cock in 1988 - we didn't get rid of him - in fact we cheered him on, gave him weapons and supported him. he was a cock in 2003 and all the years in between.

so - we did not get rid of him because he was a cock (as you suggested). we got rid of him because something else changed. that's all.

It's not simple though is it?

Over the 15 years, a lot changed. A new generation and a different political stripe were in government - i.e. it was different people in power and there was no continuity of decision-making.

[Lord Kangana]

Are we referring to The Bush Administration? If we are, you'd be pretty wrong there mummy.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Obama cannot even call his troops men, they are now ciphers, as boots. "We are not intending to put boots on the ground".
But quite happy to splash limbs on the ground, other people's limbs, other countries' ground.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Are we referring to The Bush Administration? If we are, you'd be pretty wrong there mummy.

No, I thought we were talking about the British Government.

[Lord Kangana]

Ahh! Well thats me f*cked on this conversation. I thought we were referring to the yanks finishing off what they started and us going along for the ride. Blair probably had his headline writers in with him to check what decision he should make.

[Prufrock]

Tony Blair and his govt weren't making any decisions in 1988. When they did come to power, they intervened in Kosovo, to stop a massacre, invaded Afghanistan to go after Bin Laden, and, I beleive, invaded Iraq to get rid of Saddam who was also a massive cock.

Whenever Tony Blair gives interviews on foreign policy, he talks like a man who thought he was on a moral mission to 'heal' the places mentuioned above. It may be hubristic and misguided, but I think it's genuine.

I think 'politician overreaches himself in attempt to do 'good' is more likely than 'oil cabal controls the world'. Particularly when I still can't see how a war was in the interest of the 'oil industry' anyway.

[Lord Kangana]

Genuine? F*ck me Pru, I didn't think you were that easily led.

[William the White]

Tony Blair and his govt weren't making any decisions in 1988. When they did come to power, they intervened in Kosovo, to stop a massacre, invaded Afghanistan to go after Bin Laden, and, I beleive, invaded Iraq to get rid of Saddam who was also a massive cock.

Whenever Tony Blair gives interviews on foreign policy, he talks like a man who thought he was on a moral mission to 'heal' the places mentuioned above. It may be hubristic and misguided, but I think it's genuine.

I think 'politician overreaches himself in attempt to do 'good' is more likely than 'oil cabal controls the world'. Particularly when I still can't see how a war was in the interest of the 'oil industry' anyway.

Nothing like a few thousand (million?) tons of high explosive to heal a place... And he was so 'genuine' he indulged himself in blatant fabrication to ensure 'our' participation in bush's act of vengeance...

But even bad acts can have unexpectedly good consequences - his hying and dissembling was certainly a significant factor in the commons rejecting the latest proposed adventure of using bombs to protect people...

[Prufrock]

1) What does the policy in 1988 have to do with the motives of the govt in 2003

Lk: firstly how does burning the oil help you get the oil. Secondly, given how knackered Saddam obviously was, why on earth wouldn't he have taken terms on cuts from said oil? Have you seen how Iraq was costing America per day?! Oil is worth a lot. An extra percentage point isn't worth that much.

I was hoping you'd let us in on it - it's you that keeps using it as a justification for the invasion...

No I'm not. I'm using it as evidence that Saddam was an awful human being. He was still an awful human being in 2003. Halabja is just the mosy obvious example. I'm not saying that in 2003 they all sat around saying, 'well, that gassing 15 years ago was awful wasn't it, we should probably do something about it'. It probably did come up in conversation about what a twisted murderous c*nt he was.

[Prufrock]

The how is different to the why.

I'm not saying that I think the invasion was flawlessly carried out. I'm also not saying that I think Tony Blair has always been genuine in everything he has done. I do think he genuinely wanted to 'do good' in Iraq. I think it's odd that people can be so jaundiced that they don't accept that as a possibility!

[William the White]

Obama cannot even call his troops men, they are now ciphers, as boots. "We are not intending to put boots on the ground".
But quite happy to splash limbs on the ground, other people's limbs, other countries' ground.

So right.

[Lord Kangana]

Give over. He was thinking of his legacy. F*cking disgraceful act on his part, nothing genuine about it.

[Bruce Rioja]

Saddam was an awful human being.

Saddam - awful human being. Bomb the place and have him killed.

Mugabe - awful human being. Refuse to send the cricket team.

[William the White]

Give over. He was thinking of his legacy. F*cking disgraceful act on his part, nothing genuine about it.

Well he knows his legacy all right now. He seems to have made it very unlikely that the House of Commons or the British people will support similar adventures. Well done him.

[Prufrock]

Give over. He was thinking of his legacy. F*cking disgraceful act on his part, nothing genuine about it.

What does 'legacy' mean? On its own, nothing. He wanted his 'legacy' to be the bloke who 'fixed' Iraq. Much as now he wants to be the bloke to 'fix' the Middle East.

[Lord Kangana]

In Blair's case I think its about $25m p.a. as Middle East Peace Envoy as I recall. Going well that one.

[Lord Kangana]

Gets better...

A Freedom of Information request by The Sunday Times in 2012 revealed that Blair's government considered knighting Syria's President Bashar al-Assad.

The man's a f*cking fraud.

[William the White]

The how is different to the why.

I'm not saying that I think the invasion was flawlessly carried out. I'm also not saying that I think Tony Blair has always been genuine in everything he has done. I do think he genuinely wanted to 'do good' in Iraq. I think it's odd that people can be so jaundiced that they don't accept that as a possibility!

Interesting position. Would you not see an important connection between ends and means? Or you end with the verdict that the operation was successful. Unfortunately the patient is dead.

[Worthy4England]

Tony Blair and his govt weren't making any decisions in 1988. When they did come to power, they intervened in Kosovo, to stop a massacre, invaded Afghanistan to go after Bin Laden, and, I beleive, invaded Iraq to get rid of Saddam who was also a massive cock.

Whenever Tony Blair gives interviews on foreign policy, he talks like a man who thought he was on a moral mission to 'heal' the places mentuioned above. It may be hubristic and misguided, but I think it's genuine.

I think 'politician overreaches himself in attempt to do 'good' is more likely than 'oil cabal controls the world'. Particularly when I still can't see how a war was in the interest of the 'oil industry' anyway.

Nothing like a few thousand (million?) tons of high explosive to heal a place... And he was so 'genuine' he indulged himself in blatant fabrication to ensure 'our' participation in bush's act of vengeance...

But even bad acts can have unexpectedly good consequences - his hying and dissembling was certainly a significant factor in the commons rejecting the latest proposed adventure of using bombs to protect people...

So the way we'll look to protect people now is to sit and watch how it unfolds whilst they gas each other.