The Politics Thread

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Pru, pru, pru. You are making the mistake of rotating your man, like a Catherine Wheel, about a point in the middle of his guts. If, however, you 'turn him over', about a centreline that runs across his middle, he'll still be upside down.
The fact that choosing the centre of rotation - point or line - doesn't invalidate the end result. Your 'turning upside down' isn't exclusive, and does NOT deny my 'turning upside down'.

[thebish]

You see, most flags that are flown have a piece of Hessian like material on the left (or right if you want to be perverse) into which is threaded the pole (or more technically, the bit of string which is attached to the goddam pole). Turning the flag upside down and threading either the string or the goddam pole results in an UPSIDE DOWN F*CKING FLAG.

no, no, no, no, no, no!! turning it upside down would render you unable to thread the string or put it on the pole - that's all. turning it back-to-front would allow you to put it on the pole. you are simply confusing back-to-front with upside-down - which is forgiveable in a Canadian - they can't be expected to know any better - but I expect better from you!!

I always suspected that mathematics was closer to classics than science. I'm vindicated.
Euclid, pah!

it's well known that leopards lack spatial awareness! never mind - I am SURE there must be other things you are good at!

[Prufrock]

Pru, pru, pru. You are making the mistake of rotating your man, like a Catherine Wheel, about a point in the middle of his guts. If, however, you 'turn him over', about a centreline that runs across his middle, he'll still be upside down.
The fact that choosing the centre of rotation - point or line - doesn't invalidate the end result. Your 'turning upside down' isn't exclusive, and does NOT deny my 'turning upside down'.

It's not a mistake, it's what it bloody means! His 'up' side is down. I'm not say8ing yours isn't upside down, but that it is ALSO 'back to front'. It's the back to front bit that changes the flag.

In my world, I can describe your 'upside down' man. He's upside down AND back to front. You can't describe mine.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

We need an Australian point of view... Where's Dujon? ( No, no... Ffs 2399 go away )

[Montreal Wanderer]

And before you f*cling start, the left edge of the man is defined by being the left edge, it cannot become the right hand. Now do you see where studying Latin has got you?

Leaving aside football players, I'll look at the flag. Displayed the correct way the union flag has a staff to the left. The flag has holes (or something similar) in the top and bottom left corners to attach it to the rope. If the top left hole is attached at the top the flag displays correctly. If the bottom left hole is attached to the top and the top to the bottom the flag is raised upside down and incorrectly. I do see Pru's point that this flip will also turn the flag back to front viewed from a stationary spot. However, if you walk around to the front, the flag will still be displayed incorrectly. Furthermore, Pru's explanation puts the staff on the wrong side and upside down in CH's picture. However, this is largely semantics...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Look, if the Up bit is the broad bit and the Down bit is the thin bit, no matter what the mechanism used, if they are opposite, THEY HAVE BEEN TURNED UPSIDE DOWN.

(D'you know I've not enjoyed myself so much since I discovered King Xacik-Gagik!)

[thebish]

And before you f*cling start, the left edge of the man is defined by being the left edge, it cannot become the right hand. Now do you see where studying Latin has got you?

Leaving aside football players, I'll look at the flag. Displayed the correct way the union flag has a staff to the left. The flag has holes (or something similar) in the top and bottom left corners to attach it to the rope. If the top left hole is attached at the top the flag displays correctly. If the bottom left hole is attached to the top and the top to the bottom the flag is raised upside down and incorrectly. I do see Pru's point that this flip will also turn the flag back to front viewed from a stationary spot. However, if you walk around to the front, the flag will still be displayed incorrectly. Furthermore, Pru's explanation puts the staff on the wrong side and upside down in CH's picture. However, this is largely semantics...

^ is this you forgetting the whole thing??

[thebish]

Pru, pru, pru. You are making the mistake of rotating your man, like a Catherine Wheel, about a point in the middle of his guts. If, however, you 'turn him over', about a centreline that runs across his middle, he'll still be upside down.
The fact that choosing the centre of rotation - point or line - doesn't invalidate the end result. Your 'turning upside down' isn't exclusive, and does NOT deny my 'turning upside down'.

It's not a mistake, it's what it bloody means! His 'up' side is down. I'm not say8ing yours isn't upside down, but that it is ALSO 'back to front'. It's the back to front bit that changes the flag.

In my world, I can describe your 'upside down' man. He's upside down AND back to front. You can't describe mine.

^this!

[Prufrock]

Look, if the Up bit is the broad bit and the Down bit is the thin bit, no matter what the mechanism used, if they are opposite, THEY HAVE BEEN TURNED UPSIDE DOWN.

(D'you know I've not enjoyed myself so much since I discovered King Xacik-Gagik!)

But this is the key point, I'm not saying yours is NOT upside down. It is. The upside is down. However, it is ALSO back to front. It is this that alters the flag!

If 'your' man is on his head, and facing away, and 'my' man is on his head and facing me, my man is upside down. Your man is upside down AND back to front.

My problem with the sort of wanker who rings in to complain that the flag is upside down is not that the flag is not upside down, it might be (as it'd be the same!), but that the reason they are complaining, that the thick bit and the thin bit are the wrong way round, is caused by the flag being back to front.

Take that flag, turn it back to front and it's different. ONLY turn it upside down, and it's the same.

[Montreal Wanderer]

And before you f*cling start, the left edge of the man is defined by being the left edge, it cannot become the right hand. Now do you see where studying Latin has got you?

Leaving aside football players, I'll look at the flag. Displayed the correct way the union flag has a staff to the left. The flag has holes (or something similar) in the top and bottom left corners to attach it to the rope. If the top left hole is attached at the top the flag displays correctly. If the bottom left hole is attached to the top and the top to the bottom the flag is raised upside down and incorrectly. I do see Pru's point that this flip will also turn the flag back to front viewed from a stationary spot. However, if you walk around to the front, the flag will still be displayed incorrectly. Furthermore, Pru's explanation puts the staff on the wrong side and upside down in CH's picture. However, this is largely semantics...

^ is this you forgetting the whole thing??

Well, other people brought up issues after I conceded that interested me in the topic again. I conceded based on the democratic view that everyone (you, CH Pru) disagreed with me, despite what official sources, wiki and other external people say. No point in arguing with the bish, CH Pru triumvirate especially since CH has power and authority. Even though some now take my side, I have not withdrawn my concession. Pru is the winner if only a two-dimensional protagonist.

[Prufrock]

And before you f*cling start, the left edge of the man is defined by being the left edge, it cannot become the right hand. Now do you see where studying Latin has got you?

Leaving aside football players, I'll look at the flag. Displayed the correct way the union flag has a staff to the left. The flag has holes (or something similar) in the top and bottom left corners to attach it to the rope. If the top left hole is attached at the top the flag displays correctly. If the bottom left hole is attached to the top and the top to the bottom the flag is raised upside down and incorrectly. I do see Pru's point that this flip will also turn the flag back to front viewed from a stationary spot. However, if you walk around to the front, the flag will still be displayed incorrectly. Furthermore, Pru's explanation puts the staff on the wrong side and upside down in CH's picture. However, this is largely semantics...

No it wouldn't!

And I don't get the pole bit. The pole bit isn't part of the flag. No matter which way you rotated it the pole would be in the wrong place. If you can unattach the flag, so can I!

[Montreal Wanderer]

Take that flag, turn it back to front and it's different. ONLY turn it upside down, and it's the same.

Hang on. Turning it back to front by itself does not make it different. Just walk round and look at the back side - it is still correct. You must also attach the wrong edge of the flag to the flag pole at the same time. Right?

[Montreal Wanderer]

And before you f*cling start, the left edge of the man is defined by being the left edge, it cannot become the right hand. Now do you see where studying Latin has got you?

Leaving aside football players, I'll look at the flag. Displayed the correct way the union flag has a staff to the left. The flag has holes (or something similar) in the top and bottom left corners to attach it to the rope. If the top left hole is attached at the top the flag displays correctly. If the bottom left hole is attached to the top and the top to the bottom the flag is raised upside down and incorrectly. I do see Pru's point that this flip will also turn the flag back to front viewed from a stationary spot. However, if you walk around to the front, the flag will still be displayed incorrectly. Furthermore, Pru's explanation puts the staff on the wrong side and upside down in CH's picture. However, this is largely semantics...

No it wouldn't!

And I don't get the pole bit. The pole bit isn't part of the flag. No matter which way you rotated it the pole would be in the wrong place. If you can unattach the flag, so can I!

The pole is very important. The edge attached to the pole should have the broader white stripe on top on that side, whether we look at the front or back of the flag.

[Prufrock]

And before you f*cling start, the left edge of the man is defined by being the left edge, it cannot become the right hand. Now do you see where studying Latin has got you?

Leaving aside football players, I'll look at the flag. Displayed the correct way the union flag has a staff to the left. The flag has holes (or something similar) in the top and bottom left corners to attach it to the rope. If the top left hole is attached at the top the flag displays correctly. If the bottom left hole is attached to the top and the top to the bottom the flag is raised upside down and incorrectly. I do see Pru's point that this flip will also turn the flag back to front viewed from a stationary spot. However, if you walk around to the front, the flag will still be displayed incorrectly. Furthermore, Pru's explanation puts the staff on the wrong side and upside down in CH's picture. However, this is largely semantics...

No it wouldn't!

And I don't get the pole bit. The pole bit isn't part of the flag. No matter which way you rotated it the pole would be in the wrong place. If you can unattach the flag, so can I!

The pole is very important. The edge attached to the pole should have the broader white stripe on top on that side, whether we look at the front or back of the flag.

Ah, I see what you mean about the pole. The pole is important to how you've described the flag as being viewed, which I didn't get at first, but doesn't alter what is 'up side down'.

The front of the flag is what is seen when the pole is on the left, and the back when on the right. Accordingly, you can't make the flag 'wrong' without attaching the flag to the pole back-to-front (and as you rightly say, it would be 'wrong' on each side).

[Montreal Wanderer]

Right - well honour is satisfied!

[thebish]

Right - well honour is satisfied!

aye - bravo - we have agreed it is back-to-front!

[Prufrock]

Indeed. I've thought of an(other) illuminating example.

Take the French tricolour.

The red is to the left of the blue if it is either up-side down, or back to front, but not if it is both.

There are different words for these things, because they are different things!

[Montreal Wanderer]

Right - well honour is satisfied!

aye - bravo - we have agreed it is back-to-front!

No, more that I understood what he meant and he understood what I meant. There was some justification for both positions. Win-win as they say.

[Montreal Wanderer]

The symmetry of the Canadian flag means it can be attached on either edge and that it has no back to front. Rotating it 180 degrees left to right or 180 degrees fore to aft (table football style) would both make it upside down. Just ask the US marines.

[Prufrock]

Right - well honour is satisfied!

aye - bravo - we have agreed it is back-to-front!

No, more that I understood what he meant and he understood what I meant. There was some justification for both positions. Win-win as they say.

I get what you meant about how you were looking at it re:the pole is all, but the pole is irrelevant, a constant.

It's (Union) still the same upside down, and different back to front!