Today I'm angry about.....

[thebish]

I wouldn't! My main point is that people should chill the f*ck out about it!

A pedant would also point out that, unless you've been walking along a harbour, you're unlikely to have seen three examples of the Union Jack being flown, but, as I'm not a pedant... .

We are obviously a very patriotic part of the country. The three examples are all within an easy twenty minute stroll, two of them in the same village - Bonsall.

I think he is referring to use of the word "jack" rather than the number of said flags....

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Firstly, it's not entrapment; to simplify it a great deal, that defence is only available when you are 'entrapped' by the state, usually the police or customs. So you can't use it for Fake Sheik-style journo stings.

Bobes is right to mention conspiracy which does seem to have been committed.

I reckon their (the CPS') reasoning is to discourage 'sting' operations like this. Crayons has a peeve about them which I can see, in that it's not really fair to lead someone into doing something they wouldn't have done otherwise. In a sense it is entrapment.

I agree to a point, but as always, it depends on the circumstances. If you have senior doctors aggreeing to something like this, it's maybe not the same as someone on minimum wage agreeing to give journos access to records for a bit of extra cash.

Your memory is frightening.

Yes, I don't like entrapment. And while you're right to say that that it's only actions of the state that can constitute 'entrapment' in a sense that has direct relevance in criminal proceedings, I do think this is entrapment in a broader sense.

My view is that when journalists do this sort of thing, they are themselves guilty of some sort of inchoate offence of inciting or encouraging a crime. Prosecuting on this basis is how I would stop the practice which I find distasteful and unhelpful.

I have a very narrow view of when entrapment is acceptable, and that is when it catches someone doing something that it's fairly obvious they do routinely - like an undercover officer buying drugs or using an unlicensed taxi (without putting the idea in the target's head).

I haven't read the detail about this case and the doctors. If police were pretty confident that this practice was routine, but for compelling evidential reasons decided that the best way to catch the doctors was to go undercover (and they got permission from a judge to do this in advance), I could accept that. I do not accept that we want journalists, with their wide range of incentives, running round trying to get people to commit crimes.

[Prufrock]

I wouldn't! My main point is that people should chill the f*ck out about it!

A pedant would also point out that, unless you've been walking along a harbour, you're unlikely to have seen three examples of the Union Jack being flown, but, as I'm not a pedant... .

We are obviously a very patriotic part of the country. The three examples are all within an easy twenty minute stroll, two of them in the same village - Bonsall.

Given you are about as far from the sea as it's possible to be in this country, I think it's unlikely that you saw a Union Jack at all then

It's only the Union Jack when flown from a ship. Now, some might argue that by convention it is, actually, now the Union Jack whenver; however, convention is the enemy of pedantry! Next you'll be allowing people to say that they 'literally died', which I'm sure you'll agree, just won't do

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Ah, hoisted by my own petard. What a humbling experience. Correction: the Union flag, and apologies to all pedants, Latin scholars, vexillologists and other interested parties.

[thebish]

Ah, hoisted by my own petard. What a humbling experience. Correction: the Union flag, and apologies to all pedants, Latin scholars, vexillologists and other interested parties.

nice one! reminds me that I am often cross when people proclaim "foist by my own petard" arghhhhh!!!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Ah, hoisted by my own petard. What a humbling experience. Correction: the Union flag, and apologies to all pedants, Latin scholars, vexillologists and other interested parties.

nice one! reminds me that I am often cross when people proclaim "foist by my own petard" arghhhhh!!!

I know somebody who thinks it is "hosted by my own pet art"

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Currently in pub 2 of a four pub walk, and the fxckin beer's warm. Dan wouldn't have this problem.

[Annoyed Grunt]

Ah, hoisted by my own petard. What a humbling experience. Correction: the Union flag, and apologies to all pedants, Latin scholars, vexillologists and other interested parties.

nice one! reminds me that I am often cross when people proclaim "foist by my own petard" arghhhhh!!!

I know somebody who thinks it is "hosted by my own pet art"

Pft, it's "hoist by my own pet toad"

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Ah, hoisted by my own petard. What a humbling experience. Correction: the Union flag, and apologies to all pedants, Latin scholars, vexillologists and other interested parties.

nice one! reminds me that I am often cross when people proclaim "foist by my own petard" arghhhhh!!!

I know somebody who thinks it is "hosted by my own pet art"

Pft, it's "hoist by my own pet toad"

[Prufrock]

Whenever these come up I'm reminded of one Verbs either posted on here, or has mentioned some other time, which is the glorious 'Horses f*ck horses'.

[Bruce Rioja]

Statistically the safest drivers are the ones who took two tests to pass.

A statistic that's only ever trotted out by failures.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Statistically the safest drivers are the ones who took two tests to pass.

A statistic that's only ever trotted out by failures.

Are you, like me, a first time passer? And are you, like me, an accident free haven in the midst of crashing turmoil?
Where did this statistic come from? Maybe it's derived from sheer numbers, which would be understandable as I believe less than 10% of drivers are first time passers.

[CrazyHorse]

Statistically the safest drivers are the ones who took two tests to pass.

A statistic that's only ever trotted out by failures.

Aye.
If there were any truth in that little gem then the number of times you took to pass your test would be asked as part of the insurance quote questions.

[Bruce Rioja]

Statistically the safest drivers are the ones who took two tests to pass.

A statistic that's only ever trotted out by failures.

Are you, like me, a first time passer? And are you, like me, an accident free haven in the midst of crashing turmoil?
Where did this statistic come from? Maybe it's derived from sheer numbers, which would be understandable as I believe less than 10% of drivers are first time passers.

I am indeed. Although I've had my share of accidents only one was my fault (when I was 18). Still, if you spend a longer time than most walking between the showers then the more likely you are to get wet once or twice. I think 'miles driven' in relation to accidents caused is a far more pertinent indicator of a driver's ability. As I say, BWFC-I's stat is just some wholly irrelevant rhetoric that gets trotted out (and never supported) by people that have at some point failed their driving test.

[BWFC_Insane]

Statistically the safest drivers are the ones who took two tests to pass.

A statistic that's only ever trotted out by failures.

Are you, like me, a first time passer? And are you, like me, an accident free haven in the midst of crashing turmoil?
Where did this statistic come from? Maybe it's derived from sheer numbers, which would be understandable as I believe less than 10% of drivers are first time passers.

I am indeed. Although I've had my share of accidents only one was my fault (when I was 18). Still, if you spend a longer time than most walking between the showers then the more likely you are to get wet once or twice. I think 'miles driven' in relation to accidents caused is a far more pertinent indicator of a driver's ability. As I say, BWFC-I's stat is just some wholly irrelevant rhetoric that gets trotted out (and never supported) by people that have at some point failed their driving test.

It is true Bruce. It was actually studied by real researchers.

I'm not saying its the only measure. But as Bish says if you've done an intensive course and passed first time you're likely to have less road experience than someone who has taken a couple of times to do it.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Statistically the safest drivers are the ones who took two tests to pass.

A statistic that's only ever trotted out by failures.

Are you, like me, a first time passer? And are you, like me, an accident free haven in the midst of crashing turmoil?
Where did this statistic come from? Maybe it's derived from sheer numbers, which would be understandable as I believe less than 10% of drivers are first time passers.

I am indeed. Although I've had my share of accidents only one was my fault (when I was 18). Still, if you spend a longer time than most walking between the showers then the more likely you are to get wet once or twice. I think 'miles driven' in relation to accidents caused is a far more pertinent indicator of a driver's ability. As I say, BWFC-I's stat is just some wholly irrelevant rhetoric that gets trotted out (and never supported) by people that have at some point failed their driving test.

It is true Bruce. It was actually studied by real researchers.

I'm not saying its the only measure. But as Bish says if you've done an intensive course and passed first time you're likely to have less road experience than someone who has taken a couple of times to do it.

This is obvious nonsense as the hours of 'experience' before passing the test become relative insignificant quite soon in a person's driving 'career', even if we could work out how many hours more practice second time passers have compared to first time passers.

[Bruce Rioja]

It's also perfectly plausible for a person to pass their test at the second attempt having had less lessons than someone that passes first time.

[Worthy4England]

I think the only reason my missus passed, on about her 5th go was that she was about 8 months gone, and the Examiner just wanted her out of the car!

[thebish]

I think the only reason my missus passed, on about her 5th go was that she was about 8 months gone, and the Examiner just wanted her out of the car!

I passed first time - but then, i think it was easier to pass back then... It'd be interesting to see how many of us old fogies could get straight into a driving-test situation - and/or the theory/hazard-perception test without further preparation and pass first time...

[BWFC_Insane]

I think the only reason my missus passed, on about her 5th go was that she was about 8 months gone, and the Examiner just wanted her out of the car!

I passed first time - but then, i think it was easier to pass back then... It'd be interesting to see how many of us old fogies could get straight into a driving-test situation - and/or the theory/hazard-perception test without further preparation and pass first time...

Don't think I could.

Not without a few lessons in preparation.