The Politics Thread

[Hoboh]

Lost, the plot, if found please return to the Clegglet c/o dream HQ.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... ories.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Britons most dangerous man strikes again!!

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013 ... ation-stop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Poor, poor Lib-Dems this guy is killing your party stone dead and like the fools you are you let him get away with it

RIP 2015

It's a false dichotomy, of course - we could move to a points/qualification-based system for allowing EU citizens in over the cap number.

I do wonder how the cap would work though - would it be triggered as soon as the figure of 75,000 is triggered in a calendar year?

[Lord Kangana]

You'll very well know that it can't be done, and is likely to be legally challenged. I feel sorry for Clegg (actually, no I don't, but I see what he's trying to say...) - he's in coalition with a party that is being torn in two directions by the threat (perceived rather than real, I'm certain of it) of UKIP, and by a small minority of backbenchers who have a voice out of all proportion to their democratic mandate. Which is ironic, given the constant harping of a certain cabal on The Right of how disproportionately over-represented minorities are a threat to this country as a whole.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

You'll very well know that it can't be done,

Probably not within the current arrangements, no - but then again, that is the precisely the issue!

[Bijou Bob]

You'll very well know that it can't be done, and is likely to be legally challenged. I feel sorry for Clegg (actually, no I don't, but I see what he's trying to say...) - he's in coalition with a party that is being torn in two directions by the threat (perceived rather than real, I'm certain of it) of UKIP, and by a small minority of backbenchers who have a voice out of all proportion to their democratic mandate. Which is ironic, given the constant harping of a certain cabal on The Right of how disproportionately over-represented minorities are a threat to this country as a whole.

I'm not too sure about that LK. We vastly underestimated the number of Poles who would come to work in the UK and their impact on the economy as a whole (Albeit perhaps a largely positive one). Coventry City council apparently already have 2000 plus Roma people in the city in advance of the new conditions whom at some stage, they may have to house, the local NHS will have to treat and local schools will have to educate. Replicate that across a few towns and cities and the financial and resource implications will be enormous.

[Lord Kangana]

The threat from UKIP.

But anyway, the Poles are a different case, with different circumstances. They didn't have the option of the rest of the EU.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

The threat from UKIP.

But anyway, the Poles are a different case, with different circumstances. They didn't have the option of the rest of the EU.

True, but the nuanced version of the comparison is not that the circumstances are the same, but that the potential for miscalculation is.

I don't think anyone is expecting 600,000 Romanians anytime soon.

[Bijou Bob]

Granted mummy, but 60,000 would make a huge dent in public finances.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Granted mummy, but 60,000 would make a huge dent in public finances.

The evidence is that immigrants are net contributors to the public finances.

I suppose I'd be interested in the follow-up work that looks at what they do to the wages and job prospects of 'natives'.

[Bijou Bob]

Hmmm interestingly, that 'evidence' comes from very left of centre think tanks in the main. Pardon me if I take some of it with a pinch of salt!

[Lord Kangana]

Really? Which ones are they then? And how are they massaging the figures?

[Bijou Bob]

The institute for public policy research have suggested that the effects of migration will be limited. I'm not suggesting they have massaged the figures, more that they review their data from a left of centre perspective, which isn't entirely objective or free from political bias.

[Lord Kangana]

Hang on, you used the epithet "very".

[thebish]

Granted mummy, but 60,000 would make a huge dent in public finances.

how big a dent in public finances would that make - and how would that be made up? what counts as "huge"? have you got any figures to hand?

[Bijou Bob]

I think any attempt to quantify the cost would be difficult, subject to my own political leanings and inevitably, wrong.

In my own area of work I've seen the significant impact migration has had on nhs acute services. Further immigration will inevitably stretch a system that is currently at breaking point.

I'm not anti immigration per se (someone has to keep topping up my pension fund) but I would urge caution.

The authorities in Madrid, Paris and Lisbon who tend to be less circumspect or constrained in expressing an opinion will tell you that immigration from Bulgaria and Romania have caused a sustained increase in crime. Whether police chiefs admit to it publicly or not, privately they are expecting the same. Or perhaps that's just the ones I mix with.

[thebish]

I think any attempt to quantify the cost would be difficult, subject to my own political leanings and inevitably, wrong.

In my own area of work I've seen the significant impact migration has had on nhs acute services. Further immigration will inevitably stretch a system that is currently at breaking point.

I'm not anti immigration per se (someone has to keep topping up my pension fund) but I would urge caution.

The authorities in Madrid, Paris and Lisbon who tend to be less circumspect or constrained in expressing an opinion will tell you that immigration from Bulgaria and Romania have caused a sustained increase in crime. Whether police chiefs admit to it publicly or not, privately they are expecting the same. Or perhaps that's just the ones I mix with.

ok - but have you seen any figures that are NOT subject to your own political leanings? if you describe it as causing a "huge dent" - then there must be something other than anecdotal NHS stories to justify this? you've dismissed the only figures I've seen - the same ones as Mummy - have you seen any others, or is this simply gut-feeling guesswork?

[Bijou Bob]

Personally, I think the numbers speak fir themselves Bish. The Centre for Policy Studies have provided some statistics, but as a right wing think tank, their figures are likely to be much higher. I'd like to think we could rely on the ONS, but they provided the estimates the government of the day used in respect of the number of Poles expected.

We'll find out soon enough. I suspect the Mail Will have a field day.

[thebish]

Personally, I think the numbers speak fir themselves Bish. The Centre for Policy Studies have provided some statistics, but as a right wing think tank, their figures are likely to be much higher. I'd like to think we could rely on the ONS, but they provided the estimates the government of the day used in respect of the number of Poles expected.

We'll find out soon enough. I suspect the Mail Will have a field day.

which numbers?? by which I mean - which numbers speak for themselves about a huge dent in the public finances being created?

[Hoboh]

Really? Which ones are they then? And how are they massaging the figures?

Well Labour lied for years!!

[Bijou Bob]

If it's only sixty thousand Bish, the costs are potentially huge to the public purse. Surely?