Are we a good set of supporters?

[BL3]

the thing I'm mystified about is our numbers and turnout - it is really shit. Its really not that long ago (late 70's) when we could get high 20-30k

Except it isn't 'shit'. Only two teams in the area have averaged bigger attendances than us since the war... Utd and City... and we've won nothing for over 50 years whilst the likes of Blackburn have won the Premier League and a League Cup.

In the late 70's when we won promotion to the top division, our average attendance was around 23,000. It was 18,000 last season when we spent most of it in the bottom half of the table.

[Gail Platz]

the thing I'm mystified about is our numbers and turnout - it is really shit. Its really not that long ago (late 70's) when we could get high 20-30k

Except it isn't 'shit'. Only two teams in the area have averaged bigger attendances than us since the war... Utd and City... and we've won nothing for over 50 years whilst the likes of Blackburn have won the Premier League and a League Cup.

In the late 70's when we won promotion to the top division, our average attendance was around 23,000. It was 18,000 last season when we spent most of it in the bottom half of the table.

Agreed, in comparison to others we're not bad in numbers. I know it's only down the road but we had 4,500 at Wigan, and we had 1,500 at Barnsley on a day where there's no trains running (that would have put a lot of people off, it almost put me off going).

[clapton is god]

Yesterday there was a group of 67 Dutch fans in the west lower. They were having a whale of a time and making more noise than the rest of the crowd put together. At one point in the second half they all en-mass took their shirts off, stood up and jumped up and down..... Until a steward went over and had a word with them. Decorum comes as standard at the Reebok!

[StaffsTrotter]

the thing I'm mystified about is our numbers and turnout - it is really shit. Its really not that long ago (late 70's) when we could get high 20-30k

Except it isn't 'shit'. Only two teams in the area have averaged bigger attendances than us since the war... Utd and City... and we've won nothing for over 50 years whilst the likes of Blackburn have won the Premier League and a League Cup.

In the late 70's when we won promotion to the top division, our average attendance was around 23,000. It was 18,000 last season when we spent most of it in the bottom half of the table.

have no desire to self flagellate over this, was merely my observation, but over the last 20 years we had a fantastic relative success - besides the PL, we've been to fa cup semis, league cup finals, europe etc, promotions, relegations - always been something to play for - so we can't play the times have been thin card.

we may have had 18k last year but didn't we have a larger number of STs, probably bought on the idea of going straight back up. clearly we've lost some of those, despite the near miss as attendances have dropped again - what home fans are we getting 13/14k. if we end up in no mans land this year that'll probably drop a couple of more k.

not sure why you only compare with our near neighbours - what are we in the champship attendance league - lower mid ? and even if you do, suspect wigan/ blackburn attendance are fairly similar to ours.

as I said its a sterile (and sensitive) debate, but theres absoluteley no doubt that it affects the club in a lot of ways - certainly a number of recent managers have poked their head above the parapet to comment on poor gates
question is how can they improved - certainly think the club has tried any number of initiatives

[m_taylor]

I don't care to much for numbers or trophies won in the recent or distant past, we are in the here and now and there are two many people not 'supporting' there club.

For those that don't stay stand and clap a sub, why?
For those that boo a player rather than support, why?

What can we do to make things better?

[Harry Genshaw]

Plenty of good supporters amongst our lot. We aren't a big city club. We are in Lancashire so it's impossible to have a large hinterland of support - practically every time you cross a boundary there's a league club there. The Reebok hasn't had the big-game atmosphere of Burnden, but plenty of times in non big games Burnden was very quiet. And, I've been in semi-silent Anfield, OT, Elland Rd and, notably, Arsenal.

Fans respond to what they see on the pitch. Last week at Leicester their support was tense and quiet for long periods as we competed forcefully in the first half. Ours was pretty noisy and witty. by the end we were quiet and they were jubilant. It's rare to find anything different anywhere.

I voted 'yes' to the question - the people I go to the match with are great, real supporters, and, in the case of one of them, we've been going together since we were both 15. We're both 65 now. We are part of a good set of supporters - you bet!

Wills pretty much nailed it for me there.

In my lifetime I've heard Greaves, Rioch & Todd criticize the support in one way or the other. This was when we were doing a darn sight better than we are now! We're no different to anyone else - peaks & troughs, peaks & troughs

[bwfcdan94]

Actually Gail Bournemouth away was probably the best atmosphere I have seen in some time.

[LeverEnd]

Plenty of good supporters amongst our lot. We aren't a big city club. We are in Lancashire so it's impossible to have a large hinterland of support - practically every time you cross a boundary there's a league club there. The Reebok hasn't had the big-game atmosphere of Burnden, but plenty of times in non big games Burnden was very quiet. And, I've been in semi-silent Anfield, OT, Elland Rd and, notably, Arsenal.

Fans respond to what they see on the pitch. Last week at Leicester their support was tense and quiet for long periods as we competed forcefully in the first half. Ours was pretty noisy and witty. by the end we were quiet and they were jubilant. It's rare to find anything different anywhere.

I voted 'yes' to the question - the people I go to the match with are great, real supporters, and, in the case of one of them, we've been going together since we were both 15. We're both 65 now. We are part of a good set of supporters - you bet!

Wills pretty much nailed it for me there.

That's why Dougie is different, he teaches us, nurtures us!
In my lifetime I've heard Greaves, Rioch & Todd criticize the support in one way or the other. This was when we were doing a darn sight better than we are now! We're no different to anyone else - peaks & troughs, peaks & troughs

[Lord Kangana]

Compared to other clubs I think we are shocking.

Drivel.

Seconded.

Psychologists will tell you of our in-built desire to differentiate our group. Ultimately, whether overtly positive or negative, the outcome is always positive because "we are different". This relates specifically to Sponge and BWFCi's point. United fans were calling for Ferguson's head before he was successful. Many still were even then. I know, because I know some with this mindset.

In all truth, we're just football fans, like everyone else. Some good, some bad, but really nothing that special or different. Sorry to burst any bubbles.

[LeverEnd]

Try Wigan fans' treatment of Jordi Gomez, just down the road.

[Barefoot Wanderer]

atmosphere at the reebok is great at the beginning of a game, then dougie's 4-5-1 start playing tip-tap possession football, we lose the ball and then concede an easily goal (twice against boro)

Yes it would be great if the fans would get behind the lads all the time but in reality fans get frustrated with 4-5-1 home and away EVERY week, players not putting the effort in when they should be, no home form - there's just not enough umph from our players and no passion from the manager (every week he keeps telling us we're nearly there and yet 1 year later we are still here, bottom half) - the manager is res[onsible for this shower and too many games we see more commitment from our loan players and not the players who get paid the wages

I go to the reebok every week and if I said I never boo'd anyone I would be lying - I've boo'd Beckford, Knight, and Eagles this season because at times they played awful football and didn't seem to care very much, I've also boo'd freedman after the game. Sometimes players just come and collect a wage and couldn't give a toss about BWFC and tHAT makes me boo those players

If we're discussing whether we're good fans or bad fans - it is what it is, and it is what it deserves to be. Not a valid question IMO. Other clubs facing the same drivel week in and week out would also turn against the players and manager and the booing is part and parcel of football. It is the nature of fans to do this FFS! If you don't like it go and watch netball or play a round of golf on a saturday afternoon ... just stop complaining cos other people boo, it happens and always will when times are hard

Besides, I find the booing makes things a little interesting, don't you? If we all sat there clapping and cheering when the team didn't deserve it would that make the anti-booers happy?

Like I said go and watch the local netball team, there's much less booing there

[BL3]

the thing I'm mystified about is our numbers and turnout - it is really shit. Its really not that long ago (late 70's) when we could get high 20-30k

Except it isn't 'shit'. Only two teams in the area have averaged bigger attendances than us since the war... Utd and City... and we've won nothing for over 50 years whilst the likes of Blackburn have won the Premier League and a League Cup.

In the late 70's when we won promotion to the top division, our average attendance was around 23,000. It was 18,000 last season when we spent most of it in the bottom half of the table.

have no desire to self flagellate over this, was merely my observation, but over the last 20 years we had a fantastic relative success - besides the PL, we've been to fa cup semis, league cup finals, europe etc, promotions, relegations - always been something to play for - so we can't play the times have been thin card.

we may have had 18k last year but didn't we have a larger number of STs, probably bought on the idea of going straight back up. clearly we've lost some of those, despite the near miss as attendances have dropped again - what home fans are we getting 13/14k. if we end up in no mans land this year that'll probably drop a couple of more k.

not sure why you only compare with our near neighbours - what are we in the champship attendance league - lower mid ? and even if you do, suspect wigan/ blackburn attendance are fairly similar to ours.

as I said its a sterile (and sensitive) debate, but theres absoluteley no doubt that it affects the club in a lot of ways - certainly a number of recent managers have poked their head above the parapet to comment on poor gates
question is how can they improved - certainly think the club has tried any number of initiatives

I'm not sure why you're expecting '20-30K' to turn out to watch a team in the bottom half of the Championship when there's no historical precedent for it. Over the course of our history we've averaged around 20-25,000 and most of that history has been spent in the top flight.

Our attendances can be compared to our 'near neighbours' because they share the same catchment areas and have the same problems as we do, in terms of the number of other clubs in the area. It's pretty pointless comparing our attendances to other clubs in the Championship who don't have those problems.

Picking and choosing selected attendances is also pretty pointless. The only true measure is average attendances over a period of time. Wigan's attendances are regularly boosted by the number of visiting supporters from other clubs. For example, their biggest attendance this season is against us, courtesy of 4,500 of our supporters.

Which of the teams in this list would you expect us to be ahead of?

http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/D ... 37,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Boro and Charlton are similar sized clubs to us. The rest are either doing far better than we are this season, or they don't have the problems we do in terms of their catchment areas, or both. Let's see what the likes of Reading are averaging next season if they don't go up.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Couple of different issues raised by this interesting question.

BL3's right in terms of numbers. Fatuous to expect the same level of support as Leeds (one-club city, UK's third-largest population with 750k) or Brighton (huge hinterland of potential support unopposed by any other league club bar Crawley Town - plus recent success etc). We've always had some pretty spectacular swings in gate size - think I'm right in saying the attendance after our record gate was something like 20,000, and there's long been a history of picking and choosing games.

In terms of "quality", I'll side with William the White empirically and Lord Kangana theoretically.

[Athers]

I've mentioned it before but, whether it's true or not, at least one player has been advised of the nature of the Reebok crowd before a move here.

I suspect he's on the path to finding out all about it too.

Other fans tell me they witness similar, but I do feel at the moment we are especially prime for cynicism after a spell of superb league finishes and about 6 years of going backwards since.

[coffeymagic]

The fans stuck by Owen Coyle even though we could all see the writing was on the wall.

They didn't boo (much), I never heard sustained 'Coyle Out' and I didn't see anyone running on the pitch to tear up his season ticket (or Tufty Club Membership) and throw it in the face of a bemused programme seller.

We kept out mouths shut.

And look where that got us. It was bottled up for such a long time that it's nae wunner when peple lose their rag at the drop of a hat thesedays.

The expectation default has now been set to 'shambles' with people turning up out of loyalty/habit more than hope.

It doesn't matter if the club drop prices there are plenty of people who wouldn't go even if it was free performances are so poor.

We need players that inspire the crowd, we need a manager that encourages the crowd to get involved and that will fire the fans into life.

Where Rioch used the fans to put pressure on the opposition and the ref subsequent managers (some more than others) have seen the fans as a nuisance at best or an irrelevence at worst but football itself has done a lot to irradicate atomsphere from grounds.

Ticket prices, sit down/sit still/shut up, blaring music, fireworks, piped in crowd noises/railway announcements/church congregations rising and all other artificial methods only create noise rather than allowing an atmosphere to generate.

Plus Boltonions are a bunch of miserable bastards to start off with.

As with everything in life I blame Megson.

[BWFC_Insane]

As with everything in life I blame Megson.

There was plenty of dissatisfaction aimed at Coyle. See the abuse he got when he walked off the pitch against Stoke after relegation. See the abuse he got at Hull away as examples. But I think in hindsight no matter how Megson was or was perceived to be the problem is created when a manager is hounded out by fans when the club arguably wasn't actually doing badly by historical and certainly (with hindsight) future standards. All the "I'm not going again whilst Megson is in charge" stuff looks incredibly hollow now that those people still aren't going, along with a whole load of others.

The truth is that I would take our league finishes and performances and player quality we had under Megson back in a heartbeat were it offered now. Even though we were significantly poorer than we had been in previous seasons it still on the grand scheme of things was better than we may well see for a long time. Too much was taken for granted in the premiership seasons IMO, and now we're left where we are. And there are only so many times you can say "if we just change the manager it'll be fine". And I think our fans have in general realised we're well beyond that point now.

[Bruce Rioja]

All the "I'm not going again whilst Megson is in charge" stuff looks incredibly hollow now that those people still aren't going, along with a whole load of others.

Oh are we not? Right oh.

[CAPSLOCK]

Lets change the question a bit

Do we as supporters have a positive effect on the team?

I'd say away from home, yes without a doubt

At home, the best we can come up with is that we don't boo very much

[BWFC_Insane]

All the "I'm not going again whilst Megson is in charge" stuff looks incredibly hollow now that those people still aren't going, along with a whole load of others.

Oh are we not? Right oh.

Well ok, specifically what I was trying to say is that we now have far lower average crowds.

And essentially the reason crowds went down over a period of time and have gone down further since may well be entangled in a web of complex and varied reasons, but I'd still bet there is a fair old correlation to final league position in there!

[89bwfc89]

atmosphere at the reebok is great at the beginning of a game, then dougie's 4-5-1 start playing tip-tap possession football, we lose the ball and then concede an easily goal (twice against boro)

Yes it would be great if the fans would get behind the lads all the time but in reality fans get frustrated with 4-5-1 home and away EVERY week, players not putting the effort in when they should be, no home form - there's just not enough umph from our players and no passion from the manager (every week he keeps telling us we're nearly there and yet 1 year later we are still here, bottom half) - the manager is res[onsible for this shower and too many games we see more commitment from our loan players and not the players who get paid the wages

I go to the reebok every week and if I said I never boo'd anyone I would be lying - I've boo'd Beckford, Knight, and Eagles this season because at times they played awful football and didn't seem to care very much, I've also boo'd freedman after the game. Sometimes players just come and collect a wage and couldn't give a toss about BWFC and tHAT makes me boo those players

If we're discussing whether we're good fans or bad fans - it is what it is, and it is what it deserves to be. Not a valid question IMO. Other clubs facing the same drivel week in and week out would also turn against the players and manager and the booing is part and parcel of football. It is the nature of fans to do this FFS! If you don't like it go and watch netball or play a round of golf on a saturday afternoon ... just stop complaining cos other people boo, it happens and always will when times are hard

Besides, I find the booing makes things a little interesting, don't you? If we all sat there clapping and cheering when the team didn't deserve it would that make the anti-booers happy?

Like I said go and watch the local netball team, there's much less booing there

I don't agree with booing but at least you have the balls to admit it. You're the first person I've come across to do so!

As an anti-booer, I don't think clapping and cheering in a joyful, everything is rosy kind of way (masking the problems/putting heads in the sand) is what I want, but more encouragement and support.

I think the opposition feed off the booing and everything just becomes more difficult all round - bad football, players arguing with each other, fans arguing with each other. It's all just a bit embarrasing imo.