Today I'm angry about.....

[thebish]

ok - just to be clear... you are saying that you personally don't fear armed police.

but you are not disagreeing with me that an innocent electrician DID have reason to fear armed police?

is that fair?

call be buffoon/troll - whatever - it really doesn't help your argument...

[thebish]

in what way was i supporting anyone at the court today - you're just making stuff up... i haven't said a single word about what happened at court today.

Fair enough.

Do you have a view and are you willing to share it ?

i don't know enough about the Duggan case to offer a firm view either way.

Jaffka broadened the discussion beyond the specific case - and i responded, if that's ok?

You quoted Charles, not me.

You hijacked the discussion. Therefore I now say you are a liar as well as a buffoon.

eh? what lie have I told?

you broadened the discussion beyond Duggan to a more general point about who needs to fear armed police... that's where I responded...

also - you still haven't backed up your claim that i supported people at the court... where was that?

blimey! talk about sensitive! liar/buffoon/troll... get a grip!!

[jaffka]

in what way was i supporting anyone at the court today - you're just making stuff up... i haven't said a single word about what happened at court today.

Fair enough.

Do you have a view and are you willing to share it ?

i don't know enough about the Duggan case to offer a firm view either way.

Jaffka broadened the discussion beyond the specific case - and i responded, if that's ok?

You quoted Charles, not me.

You hijacked the discussion. Therefore I now say you are a liar as well as a buffoon.

eh? what lie have I told?

you broadened the discussion beyond Duggan to a more general point about who needs to fear armed police... that's where I responded...

also - you still haven't backed up your claim that i supported people at the court... where was that?

blimey! talk about sensitive! liar/buffoon/troll... get a grip!!

You made the specific quote regarding Charles, that is where this discussion has gone. You have hijacked this discussion and tried to blame it on me, therefore I say you are a liar.

So you aren't backing the people up at court then? Pray tell what the hell you are doing then.

[thebish]

i haven't blamed anyone for hijacking anything. i merely pointed out that you broadened the discussion beyond duggan by making a more general point about who needs to fear armed police... i joined in there - making my own point about who needs to fear armed police... i think that's reasonable and not really an appropriate cue for a frothing hissy-fit!

no idea what you are getting in such a froth about...

once again - despite your claim - i haven't said anything about anyone in court - i was responding to your broader point about who should be fearful of armed police.

you can call me names all you like - but at least get the facts straight - and don't accuse me of supporting people in court when I have said nothing about anyone in court...

[jaffka]

i haven't blamed anyone for hijacking anything. i merely pointed out that you broadened the discussion beyond duggan by making a more general point about who needs to fear armed police... i joined in there - making my own point about who needs to fear armed police... i think that's reasonable and not really an appropriate cue for a frothing hissy-fit!

no idea what you are getting in such a froth about...

once again - despite your claim - i haven't said anything about anyone in court - i was responding to your broader point about who should be fearful of armed police.

you can call me names all you like - but at least get the facts straight - and don't accuse me of supporting people in court when I have said nothing about anyone in court...

I have made my point which you refuse to answer. Is your dog collar getting a little tight on your neck?

Don't try and worm your way out of this one, you have been trolling and found out. My accusation of you as a buffoon and a troll stands. By all means ask for satisfaction.

[Prufrock]

What about newspaper vendors walking home?

We were talking about this at work and thought it sounded a little surprising on the face of it, simply given how far away it turned out the gun was, but not impossibly so given the facts under scrutiny were the reaction of the police officers directly involved in the shooting. It's not about whether or not he had the gun, but whether they thought he did. There may have been a cover-up afterwards (the police DO have form for that) but that wouldn't affect this verdict. Given he did at some point have a gun, I don't think it's 'unbelievable' that they thought he still had it or had another one. I don't know enough about the facts to say for certain whether or not I think they did or did not think that, and I doubt anyone on here does, despite the usual suspects deciding that either 'the police must have done it', or conversely 'he seems to have been a wrong 'un so he must have done it'.

That said, even if they were right this time, the idea that they never get it wrong is ludicrous. De Menezes was an innocent man who did nothing wrong. Iam Tomlinson was an innocent man who did nothing wrong. Unfortunately I think it's inevitable that sometimes the police will get it wrong, but it's important that when they do it's properly questioned. Will be interesting to see the narrative verdict to see what the jury found. Then we might have more of a clue.

[Hoboh]

I'm not surprised you don't get the point. You think that shooting an electrician is a deterrent to suicide bombers. I'll leave you to your confusion, it seems incurable.

If he's wiring up a bomb, then yes

[thebish]

I have made my point which you refuse to answer. Is your dog collar getting a little tight on your neck?

Don't try and worm your way out of this one, you have been trolling and found out. My accusation of you as a buffoon and a troll stands. By all means ask for satisfaction.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

If there was a fight between a bishop and a jaffa cake, which one would win?
Only one way to find out:
Duel, duel, duel...

[thebish]

That said, even if they were right this time, the idea that they never get it wrong is ludicrous. De Menezes was an innocent man who did nothing wrong. Iam Tomlinson was an innocent man who did nothing wrong. Unfortunately I think it's inevitable that sometimes the police will get it wrong, but it's important that when they do it's properly questioned. Will be interesting to see the narrative verdict to see what the jury found. Then we might have more of a clue.

I don't know enough about the duggan case to make an accusation either way - a lengthy and (it seems to me) proper process has been followed and a jury has had its say - so I'd expect those wanting to crucify the copper to offer something fairly strong... i haven't heard anything other than slogans about "justice" yet and threats of violence and unrest...

armed police are human - they do get stuff wrong - i'd get stuff wrong if I was an armed policeman - and the world can be grateful I'm not...

but - get things wrong they do....

A restaurateur has said he feared he would be shot when armed police mistook him for a robbery suspect and stopped his car on the M25. Gursel Demeni, from Ewell, Surrey, was stopped at the A21 junction with the motorway in Kent early on Tuesday. Police had followed him from Hastings, East Sussex where he had been visiting friends. The robbery was in Eastbourne.

Armed police have fired their guns more times by mistake than in the line of duty.

A Daily Mirror investigation revealed officers have shot each other, hit patrol cars and blasted a range of household items in a two-year catalogue of blunders.
One gun cop even shot himself by accident.
Police opened fire 46 times in error between January 2006 and March 2008. In the same period marksmen used their guns in real threats 18 times.

Since 2006 two officers have been accidentally shot and one civilian police worker was hit - during a gun awareness training session. Five patrol cars and two private vehicles have been damaged by wayward bullets - none fired in the line of duty.

A clumsy marksman shot a hole in the seat and floor pan of a police car in Cheshunt, Herts. Four other police vehicles have also been hit

Police control room worker Keith Tilbury shot in the stomach during training session at the Thames Valley Police headquarters in Kidlington, Oxon, in May last year

Cop blasted in the chest with a shotgun at the police firing range at Gatwick Airport. Body armour saved the PC from serious injury

West Mercia police officer shot himself in the leg and foot when his gun got caught in his clothing in January 2006

18 bullets used in the "humane destruction" of two bullocks by Cambridgeshire Police. Four officers repeatedly blasted the animals in the village of March in November 2006

A caravan, a mattress, one kitchen oven, a hot water tank and a cabinet have also been "accidentally" hit by police officers - along with two privately-owned cars, floor tiles, walls and a skirting board

armed police make mistakes - they are human...

[Athers]

Prezbelewski.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Prezbelewski.

[Athers]

Prezbelewski.

Sorry you'll have to have seen The Wire. There's a much-mocked cop who shoots his own car by accident.

[jaffka]

I have made my point which you refuse to answer. Is your dog collar getting a little tight on your neck?

Don't try and worm your way out of this one, you have been trolling and found out. My accusation of you as a buffoon and a troll stands. By all means ask for satisfaction.

[jaffka]

That said, even if they were right this time, the idea that they never get it wrong is ludicrous. De Menezes was an innocent man who did nothing wrong. Iam Tomlinson was an innocent man who did nothing wrong. Unfortunately I think it's inevitable that sometimes the police will get it wrong, but it's important that when they do it's properly questioned. Will be interesting to see the narrative verdict to see what the jury found. Then we might have more of a clue.

I don't know enough about the duggan case to make an accusation either way - a lengthy and (it seems to me) proper process has been followed and a jury has had its say - so I'd expect those wanting to crucify the copper to offer something fairly strong... i haven't heard anything other than slogans about "justice" yet and threats of violence and unrest...

armed police are human - they do get stuff wrong - i'd get stuff wrong if I was an armed policeman - and the world can be grateful I'm not...

but - get things wrong they do....

A restaurateur has said he feared he would be shot when armed police mistook him for a robbery suspect and stopped his car on the M25. Gursel Demeni, from Ewell, Surrey, was stopped at the A21 junction with the motorway in Kent early on Tuesday. Police had followed him from Hastings, East Sussex where he had been visiting friends. The robbery was in Eastbourne.

Armed police have fired their guns more times by mistake than in the line of duty.

A Daily Mirror investigation revealed officers have shot each other, hit patrol cars and blasted a range of household items in a two-year catalogue of blunders.
One gun cop even shot himself by accident.
Police opened fire 46 times in error between January 2006 and March 2008. In the same period marksmen used their guns in real threats 18 times.

Since 2006 two officers have been accidentally shot and one civilian police worker was hit - during a gun awareness training session. Five patrol cars and two private vehicles have been damaged by wayward bullets - none fired in the line of duty.

A clumsy marksman shot a hole in the seat and floor pan of a police car in Cheshunt, Herts. Four other police vehicles have also been hit

Police control room worker Keith Tilbury shot in the stomach during training session at the Thames Valley Police headquarters in Kidlington, Oxon, in May last year

Cop blasted in the chest with a shotgun at the police firing range at Gatwick Airport. Body armour saved the PC from serious injury

West Mercia police officer shot himself in the leg and foot when his gun got caught in his clothing in January 2006

18 bullets used in the "humane destruction" of two bullocks by Cambridgeshire Police. Four officers repeatedly blasted the animals in the village of March in November 2006

A caravan, a mattress, one kitchen oven, a hot water tank and a cabinet have also been "accidentally" hit by police officers - along with two privately-owned cars, floor tiles, walls and a skirting board

armed police make mistakes - they are human...

Has anyone said any different. However that job entails on the spot instant decision making, confronting nasty bastards. Do you want to do it? I don't.

You probably think you are shit hot now on doing a simple google search, do the same for the church and see how many bad stories there are. Bad news sells newspapers.

I did ask you to share any negative experiences you have had. You still haven't done that.

[thebish]

Has anyone said any different. However that job entails on the spot instant decision making, confronting nasty bastards. Do you want to do it? I don't.

well - yes - you seem adamant that you have nothing to fear and have said only the guilty need have something to fear from armed police. if there are armed police around who make mistakes - then anyone - regardless of guilt - could have something to fear..

that's my point - it's a very simple one - i'm struggling see how you are not grasping it!

i don't think you disagree with my point AT ALL - you are just pretending you do for some kind of effect.





(my personal experience with the police - and yours - is irrelevant - as is what I wear - as is my job - as is whether or not you or I want to be an armed police officer)

[bobo the clown]

i don't think you disagree with my point AT ALL - you are just pretending you do for some kind of effect.

[thebish]

i don't think you disagree with my point AT ALL - you are just pretending you do for some kind of effect.

very amusing bobo... but i do actually disagree with jaffka's point that only the guilty need fear the armed police.

what do you think? is it only the guilty who may have reason to fear armed police - i notice you haven't said, Mr bobo pot...

[jaffka]

Has anyone said any different. However that job entails on the spot instant decision making, confronting nasty bastards. Do you want to do it? I don't.

well - yes - you seem adamant that you have nothing to fear and have said only the guilty need have something to fear from armed police. if there are armed police around who make mistakes - then anyone - regardless of guilt - could have something to fear..

that's my point - it's a very simple one - i'm struggling see how you are not grasping it!

i don't think you disagree with my point AT ALL - you are just pretending you do for some kind of effect.





(my personal experience with the police - and yours - is irrelevant - as is what I wear - as is my job - as is whether or not you or I want to be an armed police officer)

You are an ignorant man.

Tell me why I need to be fearful, so far in my life I have been stopped driving twice. Funnily enough I have never been stopped by a policeman with a gun, I have seen them at airports but they have still ignored me. You tell me I need to be scared! Why?

I believe the points I have raised are relevant and if you disagree, then tough, that's just hard shit for you.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Prezbelewski.

Sorry you'll have to have seen The Wire. There's a much-mocked cop who shoots his own car by accident.

Ahhh, as I've not seen The Wire that'll explain why I was confused.