The Politics Thread

[Prufrock]

It is based on research carried out that shows 3M jobs were "linked" to trade with the EU. Actually that research was several years old and the number has been revised to around 4.5M. These are published pieces of research. They do not say that those jobs would be lost were we not in the EU. They say that there are 4.5M jobs in the UK linked directly to trade with the EU. What the research suggests is a greater risk to those jobs were we out of the EU. Not necessarily a loss of them immediately.

In addition, what is not being measured here, for example is how many jobs in Higher Education are dependent upon being in the EU directly (as a lot of University funding comes from the EU). Those jobs would presumably vanish as soon as we exited.

So I think the number Clegg used was actually wrong, but lower than the latest data actually suggests.

I dont pretend to know the finer points of this debate but the Lib Dem spokesman on Five live last night said EXACTLY that i.e. those 3m jobs were dependent on us being in Europe.

As far as I can recall, this was a reason why the same party were encouraging us to join the Euro 10+ years ago. We couldn't possibly trade with our own currency when everyone else was using the Euro

Well the number (actually now 4.5M) is right. The degree to which those jobs are kept/lost based on being in/out of the EU is where the debate lies.

There is no doubt that exiting the EU would put those jobs "at risk". Even the research concluded that. But that is someway short of losing 4.5M jobs overnight. On the other hand you couldn't rule that out either.

Tit for Tat I would say

EU countries need to trade with us - in or out of the euro. Four million jobs in the EU depend on trade with the UK

We need to trade that’s beyond dispute we don't need to be Federalised or become a state of a Europe super entity.

Same apply to Scotland ?

And you, not for the first time, miss the point. Those jobs aren't linked to ( and tbf, that is not the same as 'rely on' however you cut it) trade between the UK and the EU, they're linked to organisations, each within the EU, trading with each other.

The debate is whether, if we lost all the EU free-trade protections by leaving, our businesses would still be the most attractive to their current partners, or whether they would go off to someone else who was still in the EU.

[Hoboh]

It is based on research carried out that shows 3M jobs were "linked" to trade with the EU. Actually that research was several years old and the number has been revised to around 4.5M. These are published pieces of research. They do not say that those jobs would be lost were we not in the EU. They say that there are 4.5M jobs in the UK linked directly to trade with the EU. What the research suggests is a greater risk to those jobs were we out of the EU. Not necessarily a loss of them immediately.

In addition, what is not being measured here, for example is how many jobs in Higher Education are dependent upon being in the EU directly (as a lot of University funding comes from the EU). Those jobs would presumably vanish as soon as we exited.

So I think the number Clegg used was actually wrong, but lower than the latest data actually suggests.

I dont pretend to know the finer points of this debate but the Lib Dem spokesman on Five live last night said EXACTLY that i.e. those 3m jobs were dependent on us being in Europe.

As far as I can recall, this was a reason why the same party were encouraging us to join the Euro 10+ years ago. We couldn't possibly trade with our own currency when everyone else was using the Euro

Well the number (actually now 4.5M) is right. The degree to which those jobs are kept/lost based on being in/out of the EU is where the debate lies.

There is no doubt that exiting the EU would put those jobs "at risk". Even the research concluded that. But that is someway short of losing 4.5M jobs overnight. On the other hand you couldn't rule that out either.

Tit for Tat I would say

EU countries need to trade with us - in or out of the euro. Four million jobs in the EU depend on trade with the UK

We need to trade that’s beyond dispute we don't need to be Federalised or become a state of a Europe super entity.

Same apply to Scotland ?

And you, not for the first time, miss the point. Those jobs aren't linked to ( and tbf, that is not the same as 'rely on' however you cut it) trade between the UK and the EU, they're linked to organisations, each within the EU, trading with each other.

The debate is whether, if we lost all the EU free-trade protections by leaving, our businesses would still be the most attractive to their current partners, or whether they would go off to someone else who was still in the EU.

Wrong, the debate is would we lose EU trade if we left and would the EU (not the poor countries who are the leeches), the industrialised ones want to lose or be tarrifed in trade with us?

Scotland can do as they dammed well please but seeing that’s a totally different case were they need us merely to survive, if they chose to feck off then we can do without them.

[Prufrock]

Whose we? [i[We[/i] aren't trading with the EU, we are the EU! When we say 'EU trade' we mean what I said there^.

I'd be very surprised if ALL trade between us and the industrialised EU countries (by which we mean, our businesses and their businesses) were to stop if we left, but equally loss of those freedoms is likely to have some effect. 'Our' Company X may be cheaper than a German company now for example, but with any tariffs would be dearer.

[Hoboh]

Whose we? [i[We[/i] aren't trading with the EU, we are the EU! When we say 'EU trade' we mean what I said there^.

I'd be very surprised if ALL trade between us and the industrialised EU countries (by which we mean, our businesses and their businesses) were to stop if we left, but equally loss of those freedoms is likely to have some effect. 'Our' Company X may be cheaper than a German company now for example, but with any tariffs would be dearer.

Yep and your Merc limo when you do something may cost you a few bob more......



We, are the free people of the United Kingdom as opposed to the European fed sheep

[Bijou Bob]

The government has now confirmed the continuation of the ban on books being sent to prisoners.

This is on 'security' grounds.

Presumably they are worried that books called 'How to escape from prison' will be sent in, or books with weapons concealed within the covers. Or drugs soaked into the corners of the pages. Or that a Collected Shakespeare has enough weight to serve as a lethal weapon.

They are almost certainly worried that reading will make the cons more intelligent than the screws. In this they are almost certainly correct.

'Screws' William? I'm rather surprised at your attitude to working class men doing society's dirty work.

I've been inside a good few prisons and frankly, wouldn't do that job for a gold clock.

Sadly, given the rates of illiteracy amongst inmates, I'm not sure a ban on books will cause much of a problem.

I don't know whether this is indifference or despair. Either way it's wrong.

Writing classes, drama and art groups, are always over subscribed when permitted.

And I did post earlier that basic literacy and numeracy classes would be more than helpful in equipping offenders to exercise genuine choices about their future. I'd say essential. But I note you don't suggest that. A sneer is enough.

Some screws are worth a gold clock. Others are brutal bullies. And talking about 'working class men' ignores all the female prison officers. Time to update your take on the world, perhaps?

Perhaps. Semantics aside, I find it sad that you've used a perjorative term for a whole group of people. No doubt some are bullies, but there is a significant body of research that suggests that prisons brutalise more than just the inmates. Perhaps some of those people are victims too.

Far from sneering, I find the rates of recidivism amongst offenders quite shocking and support anything that might change that. Experience tells me that most offenders cannot be changed, that is a decision most eventually make for themselves. Sadly, many leave that decision far too late to affect their life trajectory.

[Hoboh]

Hells Bells if that what shocks you mate then God help us all when something really bad happens!!

During his LBC debate with Nick Clegg, Mr Farage said that the EU's approach had inspired the Ukrainian people to topple the country's government and "provoked" military intervention by Russia.
Mr Clegg this morning told LBC Radio that his comments had been "insulting" and "extreme". He said: "I was extraordinarily surprised – if not shocked – that he agrees with Vladimir Putin."

I think this just shows how far removed from reality some of these people really are.

[Beefheart]

Hells Bells if that what shocks you mate then God help us all when something really bad happens!!

During his LBC debate with Nick Clegg, Mr Farage said that the EU's approach had inspired the Ukrainian people to topple the country's government and "provoked" military intervention by Russia.
Mr Clegg this morning told LBC Radio that his comments had been "insulting" and "extreme". He said: "I was extraordinarily surprised – if not shocked – that he agrees with Vladimir Putin."

I think this just shows how far removed from reality some of these people really are.

Sez the one.

[Hoboh]

Hells Bells if that what shocks you mate then God help us all when something really bad happens!!

During his LBC debate with Nick Clegg, Mr Farage said that the EU's approach had inspired the Ukrainian people to topple the country's government and "provoked" military intervention by Russia.
Mr Clegg this morning told LBC Radio that his comments had been "insulting" and "extreme". He said: "I was extraordinarily surprised – if not shocked – that he agrees with Vladimir Putin."

I think this just shows how far removed from reality some of these people really are.

Sez the one.

Okay Ostrich, so Nuland and the cash along with EU promises and threats had nothing at all to do with the rise of the Nazis in the Ukraine.
NATO trying to pitch up on Russia’s borders and limit the Russian warm water port in the Crimea also had nothing to do with what’s gone on.
My God, NSA mind control systems are working really well.

[Hoboh]

There are three types of EU legislation:
•regulations – these are directly applicable in all Member States and are binding;
•directives – these are binding on Member States but they decide how they should be implemented in order to achieve the required aim and then legislate to bring that about;
•decisions – these are binding on whom they are directed to and can include companies as well as a Member States.

And one common word

BINDING

[Lost Leopard Spot]

There are three types of EU legislation:
•regulations – these are directly applicable in all Member States and are binding;
•directives – these are binding on Member States but they decide how they should be implemented in order to achieve the required aim and then legislate to bring that about;
•decisions – these are binding on whom they are directed to and can include companies as well as a Member States.

And one common word

BINDING

actually Hobes old chap I noticed four other common words: these, are, Member, and States.

[Worthy4England]

There are three types of EU legislation:
•regulations – these are directly applicable in all Member States and are binding;
•directives – these are binding on Member States but they decide how they should be implemented in order to achieve the required aim and then legislate to bring that about;
•decisions – these are binding on whom they are directed to and can include companies as well as a Member States.

And one common word

BINDING

actually Hobes old chap I noticed four other common words: these, are, Member, and States.

And and.

[Prufrock]

I always find 'legislation' isn't much fecking use if it's not binding in some manner.

[Worthy4England]

I always find 'legislation' isn't much fecking use if it's not binding in some manner.

[Hoboh]

Who would believe that hoboh2o posting his opinions about the EU in the Guardian comments would actually pick up recomendations
Maybe they are a little more highbrow and actually understand what democracy is about
I may have some fun here........

[Lord Kangana]

Just so I can understand, what exactly is the reason that Nigel Farage, on our behalf, wants us to withdraw from the European Union again?

[Hoboh]

Just so I can understand, what exactly is the reason that Nigel Farage, on our behalf, wants us to withdraw from the European Union again?

I'm not biting

[Worthy4England]

Who would believe that hoboh2o posting his opinions about the EU in the Guardian comments would actually pick up recomendations
Maybe they are a little more highbrow and actually understand what democracy is about
I may have some fun here........

There's numbnuts across the entire political spectrum. You're bound to find some.

[Hoboh]

Who would believe that hoboh2o posting his opinions about the EU in the Guardian comments would actually pick up recomendations
Maybe they are a little more highbrow and actually understand what democracy is about
I may have some fun here........

There's numbnuts across the entire political spectrum. You're bound to find some.

Why would I go looking there's enough not too far away

[Worthy4England]

Who would believe that hoboh2o posting his opinions about the EU in the Guardian comments would actually pick up recomendations
Maybe they are a little more highbrow and actually understand what democracy is about
I may have some fun here........

There's numbnuts across the entire political spectrum. You're bound to find some.

Why would I go looking there's enough not too far away

I dunno, but you obviously have.

[Prufrock]

Is it normal that the Lord High Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice should have no legal background at all?

Don't, Monty - it's not good for my blood pressure.

I enjoyed this today: http://www.legalcheek.com/2014/04/chris ... r-and-may/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;