The Politics Thread

[Gooner Girl]

And no ones given me the simple version of what it's all about yet!

[Prufrock]

Nah, I fixed it ages ago. Get all the nuclear weapons in the world, point them there and tell them they've got a week to stop being dicks and killing each other over their made-up friends and share it, or neither of them can have it.

[Montreal Wanderer]

And no ones given me the simple version of what it's all about yet!

Okay. In 1948 the UN established Israel as a homeland for (principally Ashkenazi) Jews (for whom things in Europe had been going particularly badly for a number of years). The Arabs, who'd been promised Palestine for their support against the Ottoman Empire in WW1, did not take kindly to this. In their view the Jews had left the area millennia before and had no right to come back. A number of wars were fought, with the Arab intention of destroying the state of Israel. The Arab nations lost them all. Some Arab nations still question Israel's right to exist. Despite many attempts no diplomatic solution has been found for the impasse.

[Prufrock]

Coz they've not tried mine.

Yeah, basically there's a load of normal Israelis who want to go about their lives but can't, because they're shit scared of being blown up all the time, and a load of normal Palestinians who want to go about their lives but can't, because the Israelis keep building walls everywhere, and blowing up their towns in retaliation for the bombs.

Both sides are hindered by keep electing dicks which is annoying, but I suppose to be expected given the other side keep electing dicks.

I'm slightly less anti-Palestine than I am anti-Israel, but only really because when you've got two guys being arseholes, one of whom has tanks, a seat at the UN, and a massive friend; and one of whom who has a few pop rockets and suicide bombs, it's up to the other one to play the bigger man.

[thebish]

there is no simple version - but as the situation exists today, an absolute shitload of palestinians are being killed and a shitload more are having their homes and olive-orchards bulldozed to make way for more illegal Israeli settlements whilst their access to the outside world via road (blocked off by huge wall and checkpoints - often closed without warning and for long periods) air and sea is often blocked off.

sometimes the palestinians getted pissed and fire a missile over the wall and have targetted civilians in bus-bombs - or they kidnap Israelies in order to trade for prisoner release. this is terrorism.

the israelis operate assasination squads where they bomb houses or cars in roads acting on information that a terrorist is there - this isn't the same as bus-bombs becuse they don't acually mean to kill the innocent civilians that they do - it's just unfortunate that it happens so many times and unavoidable. (it is not terrorism because it is done by an organised army)

sometimes Israeli snipers shoot children - just for shits and giggles...

[thebish]

here's a rough idea about how land has been appropriated across the decades... (there is more white now)

[LeverEnd]

thebish forgot to mention the bit where anyone who criticises Israeli government policy is branded anti-Semitic an/or Nazi-ish.
It's a horrible mess that I can't see being sorted in my lifetime, and I intend being around for another 50 years at least.

[Worthy4England]

I read in Wiki, that Israel is about the size of Wales. It could be fairly easily solved, just by giving them Wales and let the Palestinians have Israel.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

All hell would break loose. Bobo would have to annexe a bit of Chester or summat

[TANGODANCER]

I read in Wiki, that Israel is about the size of Wales. It could be fairly easily solved, just by giving them Wales and let the Palestinians have Israel.

They've already got Cheetham Hill, so probably more population there than Wales.

[Harry Genshaw]

I read in Wiki, that Israel is about the size of Wales. It could be fairly easily solved, just by giving them Wales and let the Palestinians have Israel.

That's a brilliant solution! They could even bring their separation wall with them (sorry Bobo - it's been emotional ). On the other hand I imagine it wouldn't be long before they started building settlements in Chester, Shrewsbury, Ipswich

[Lost Leopard Spot]

And no ones given me the simple version of what it's all about yet!

Well it's like this GG.
Let us imagine you are a normal peace living woman called Helen Genshaw.
Now imagine taking a walk in two different cities, openly, looking like you are and using your name.
Let us further imagine those two cities are Tel Aviv and Gaza.
I'll invite you to do it in reality, except only an idiot would do that in Gaza.

Victims my arse.

Also, there are Arab citizens of Israel.

Plus none of the countries we see now are any more real than any other (a contention regularly thrown at Israel) all were created after 1916, not just Israel but Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia - the list goes on

But anti-Semitism runs deep...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

and as for bish's contention that some Israeli soldiers shoot Palestinian children for shits and giggles. Really, take a look at the feckin world coz there are more Muslims slaughtering innocents than any Jew anywhere.
I don't recall a single instance of shitty giggly Jews killing tourists at Muslim museums in Europe, and indeed I'm at a loss to think of any other religion apart from Muslims that currently slaughter kids, pregnant women, boys, men, and transvestites on such an industrial scale.
Tell you what Bish, send your lad on a fact finding mission... Try Israel first, coz he'll survive that. Then try him in the Muslim heartlands! See if he comes back... Alive.

[thebish]

and as for bish's contention that some Israeli soldiers shoot Palestinian children for shits and giggles. Really, take a look at the feckin world coz there are more Muslims slaughtering innocents than any new anywhere.

maybe - but does that mean Israeli soldiers DON'T shoot Palestinian children for shits and giggles? It's a very odd defence to make...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

and as for bish's contention that some Israeli soldiers shoot Palestinian children for shits and giggles. Really, take a look at the feckin world coz there are more Muslims slaughtering innocents than any new anywhere.

maybe - but does that mean Israeli soldiers DON'T shoot Palestinian children for shits and giggles? It's a very odd defence to make...

It wasn't a defence. What am I defending???

[Lost Leopard Spot]

My contention was, if you look back, that Palestinians are not more innocent than Israelis. I stick by that.

[bwfcdan94]

and as for bish's contention that some Israeli soldiers shoot Palestinian children for shits and giggles. Really, take a look at the feckin world coz there are more Muslims slaughtering innocents than any Jew anywhere.
I don't recall a single instance of shitty giggly Jews killing tourists at Muslim museums in Europe, and indeed I'm at a loss to think of any other religion apart from Muslims that currently slaughter kids, pregnant women, boys, men, and transvestites on such an industrial scale.
Tell you what Bish, send your lad on a fact finding mission... Try Israel first, coz he'll survive that. Then try him in the Muslim heartlands! See if he comes back... Alive.

Ill go for a fee of £1000 and all expenses spared, what have I got to lose? anyway I like a bit of excitement.

[thebish]

and as for bish's contention that some Israeli soldiers shoot Palestinian children for shits and giggles. Really, take a look at the feckin world coz there are more Muslims slaughtering innocents than any new anywhere.

maybe - but does that mean Israeli soldiers DON'T shoot Palestinian children for shits and giggles? It's a very odd defence to make...

It wasn't a defence. What am I defending???

well - you did offer what seemed like an irrelevant non-sequiteur...

we agree, then, that Israeli soldiers shoot Palestinian children for shits and giggles? (cos, well - they do - which is part of the picture in the situation that was being discussed.)

[thebish]

My contention was, if you look back, that Palestinians are not more innocent than Israelis. I stick by that.

i did look back - you didn't make that contention.

[thebish]

But anti-Semitism runs deep...

good illustration of LeverEnd's point. bravo!