Today I'm happy about......

[Prufrock]

Well, if you're all going to be silly...

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Too many no/nots in a sentence for my brain to handle in this heat

[Gary the Enfield]

I'm sure they do, but we're not talking somebody on the fly saying 'paying bus fares is against my religion'. There are scholars who have written all sorts on their interpretation of texts and found that it is in the religion. Others have found it isn't. I suppose Catholics not believing in condoms is the best analogy I can think of off the top of my head. It's not in the text (but, so what, they're still made up!) but certain people interpret the text as meaning they're not allowed. No-one would say Catholics not using condoms is not a 'religious' belief.

I'm a Catholic Lapsed, obviously and I believe in condoms. I've seen 'em.

Have you ever seen the barcode on a condom?

If you haven't you're not rolling it back far enough.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I'm sure they do, but we're not talking somebody on the fly saying 'paying bus fares is against my religion'. There are scholars who have written all sorts on their interpretation of texts and found that it is in the religion. Others have found it isn't. I suppose Catholics not believing in condoms is the best analogy I can think of off the top of my head. It's not in the text (but, so what, they're still made up!) but certain people interpret the text as meaning they're not allowed. No-one would say Catholics not using condoms is not a 'religious' belief.

I'm a Catholic Lapsed, obviously and I believe in condoms. I've seen 'em.

Have you ever seen the barcode on a condom?

If you haven't you're not rolling it back far enough.

You do know they're not balloons don't you?

[Gary the Enfield]

I'm sure they do, but we're not talking somebody on the fly saying 'paying bus fares is against my religion'. There are scholars who have written all sorts on their interpretation of texts and found that it is in the religion. Others have found it isn't. I suppose Catholics not believing in condoms is the best analogy I can think of off the top of my head. It's not in the text (but, so what, they're still made up!) but certain people interpret the text as meaning they're not allowed. No-one would say Catholics not using condoms is not a 'religious' belief.

I'm a Catholic Lapsed, obviously and I believe in condoms. I've seen 'em.

Have you ever seen the barcode on a condom?

If you haven't you're not rolling it back far enough.

You do know they're not balloons don't you?

But......but....... Oh!

[Worthy4England]

Too many no/nots in a sentence for my brain to handle in this heat

You really should tie a knot after use...

[bobo the clown]

I'm sure they do, but we're not talking somebody on the fly saying 'paying bus fares is against my religion'. There are scholars who have written all sorts on their interpretation of texts and found that it is in the religion. Others have found it isn't. I suppose Catholics not believing in condoms is the best analogy I can think of off the top of my head. It's not in the text (but, so what, they're still made up!) but certain people interpret the text as meaning they're not allowed. No-one would say Catholics not using condoms is not a 'religious' belief.

That's one incredibly poorly chosen analogy .. & that's before your wording makes it indecipherable.

[Gooner Girl]

Today I am happy about lovely sunny walks with the dog and the kids. its the simple things in life...

[Prufrock]

I'm sure they do, but we're not talking somebody on the fly saying 'paying bus fares is against my religion'. There are scholars who have written all sorts on their interpretation of texts and found that it is in the religion. Others have found it isn't. I suppose Catholics not believing in condoms is the best analogy I can think of off the top of my head. It's not in the text (but, so what, they're still made up!) but certain people interpret the text as meaning they're not allowed. No-one would say Catholics not using condoms is not a 'religious' belief.

That's one incredibly poorly chosen analogy .. & that's before your wording makes it indecipherable.

If it's indecipherable how do you know it's incredibly poorly chosen?

And care to explain why?

[Prufrock]

Today I am happy about lovely sunny walks with the dog and the kids. its the simple things in life...

I thought their t-shirts said 'eBay' on for a second. Trying to flog them ?

[TANGODANCER]

No-one would say Catholics not using condoms is not a 'religious' belief.

My head hurts

Mine two. How may familes ( exclusively Catholic of course) do we know who either have eighteen children or apply a ban on sex? It all comes back down to applying a little common sense about it all. Catholic fanatics don't rule the world any more than their er, religious opponents, at least not since they were sent to Jerusalem to die because "God willed it" Religion gets the blame for many things it has little to do with, mostly from non-believers.

[Prufrock]

In the context of this discussion, who is blaming anyone?

My point is simply that if a Catholic said that they didn't use condoms for 'religious reasons' no-one would say 'actually, those reasons are not religious'. Mainly because they clearly are. They're personal, but they're indubitably 'religious'. Equally, if someone wants to wear the full face veil for 'religious reasons' who is anyone else to say their reasons aren't in fact 'religious'?

That's completely different to saying, as the French have, your religious reasons aren't good enough to allow you not to follow the law banning face coverings.

[Gooner Girl]

Today I am happy about lovely sunny walks with the dog and the kids. its the simple things in life...

I thought their t-shirts said 'eBay' on for a second. Trying to flog them ?

It's a tempting thought at times! Not sure they'd go for much

[TANGODANCER]

In the context of this discussion, who is blaming anyone?

My point is simply that if a Catholic said that they didn't use condoms for 'religious reasons' no-one would say 'actually, those reasons are not religious'. Mainly because they clearly are. They're personal, but they're indubitably 'religious'. Equally, if someone wants to wear the full face veil for 'religious reasons' who is anyone else to say their reasons aren't in fact 'religious'?

That's completely different to saying, as the French have, your religious reasons aren't good enough to allow you not to follow the law banning face coverings.

Not sure where the word blaming was used, at least not in relation to context? It might be as well to keep in mind what contraception is for, in addition to Catholics (some) not believing in it for religious reasons. You chose a bad example to further your case unless wearing a veil prevents children.

[Prufrock]

The word blaming was used by you, in the last sentence before my reply.

I'm not comparing the quality of the two beliefs, or their purpose - they're both daft to me - I'm comparing their origin.

Neither 'text' says either that condoms shouldn't be used, or that veils should be worn. In both cases a particular sentence has been taken and interpreted to mean that. So in Bible I think it's the bits about not taking a life (I don't know which bits exactly, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't say 'no johnnies allowed'), and in (I think) the Haddith it talks about dressing modestly. After hundreds of years of scholarship that then comes down to one particular group of Christians believing their religion demands condoms not be used, and one particular group of muslims believing women should wear veils.

My point is simply that both practices, despite not being actually in the Official Texts (TM) are 'religious' practices. I'm not saying anything beyond that. I think the analogy stands up.

[William the White]

Every time we get near this subject I'm reminded of the Roman Catholic writer Hilaire Belloc and his convincing proof of the divinity of his church:

The Catholic Church is an institution I am bound to hold divine — but for unbelievers a proof of its divinity might be found in the fact that no merely human institution conducted with such knavish imbecility would have lasted a fortnight.

[bobo the clown]

I'm sure they do, but we're not talking somebody on the fly saying 'paying bus fares is against my religion'. There are scholars who have written all sorts on their interpretation of texts and found that it is in the religion. Others have found it isn't. I suppose Catholics not believing in condoms is the best analogy I can think of off the top of my head. It's not in the text (but, so what, they're still made up!) but certain people interpret the text as meaning they're not allowed. No-one would say Catholics not using condoms is not a 'religious' belief.

That's one incredibly poorly chosen analogy .. & that's before your wording makes it indecipherable.

If it's indecipherable how do you know it's incredibly poorly chosen?

And care to explain why?

The choice of using as an example the Catholic Church's teachings on contraception is a poor one from a person who regularly and loudly informs us he has no religious belief and, clearly, doesn't know what is or isn't said on that subject, nor the role of authority in that Church.

In my view it's not a clever policy by that Church, but something doesn't have to be in the bible for the Pope's pronouncements to be deemed legitimate interpretation on a subject. In his following the Pope is, quite literally, "the man". If he states something as policy, then to his followers it's policy .... "end of" as the kids say. Them's the rules.

That part of it is indecipherable is incidental to the poor choice, but doesn't help your presentation.

[Gary the Enfield]

Every time we get near this subject I'm reminded of the Roman Catholic writer Hilaire Belloc and his convincing proof of the divinity of his church:

The Catholic Church is an institution I am bound to hold divine — but for unbelievers a proof of its divinity might be found in the fact that no merely human institution conducted with such knavish imbecility would have lasted a fortnight.

Was he a fan of Groucho Marx?

I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.

Groucho Marx

[Prufrock]

I'm sure they do, but we're not talking somebody on the fly saying 'paying bus fares is against my religion'. There are scholars who have written all sorts on their interpretation of texts and found that it is in the religion. Others have found it isn't. I suppose Catholics not believing in condoms is the best analogy I can think of off the top of my head. It's not in the text (but, so what, they're still made up!) but certain people interpret the text as meaning they're not allowed. No-one would say Catholics not using condoms is not a 'religious' belief.

That's one incredibly poorly chosen analogy .. & that's before your wording makes it indecipherable.

If it's indecipherable how do you know it's incredibly poorly chosen?

And care to explain why?

The choice of using as an example the Catholic Church's teachings on contraception is a poor one from a person who regularly and loudly informs us he has no religious belief and, clearly, doesn't know what is or isn't said on that subject, nor the role of authority in that Church.

In my view it's not a clever policy by that Church, but something doesn't have to be in the bible for the Pope's pronouncements to be deemed legitimate interpretation on a subject. In his following the Pope is, quite literally, "the man". If he states something as policy, then to his followers it's policy .... "end of" as the kids say. Them's the rules.

That part of it is indecipherable is incidental to the poor choice, but doesn't help your presentation.

The Pope's authority is irrelevant to the point I'm making.

My point is that a practice does not have to derive from the main text to still be classed as religious. A theological reckoning as to the relative authorities of the Pope in Roman Catholicism and clerics in Islam is hardly relevant. 'It's not in the book, but it's still 'religious'' is the point. It didn't have to be condoms, it could be wearing the cross (not in the Bible, still patently religious), or any other similar religious practice. Nativity sets if you want, whatever. There are all valid analogies for the point I was making, which isn't a difficult one, nor do I think it's particularly controversial.

[Hoboh]

Finally finished installing the security system updating at home!! (Well nearly gotta programe some of it). Phew was bloody hard work I'm half dead on my feet and it took ages due to not being able to work above about an hour or so without a rest, but its in and bang on
Shame no one will sell automatic robotic gun outposts