The Politics Thread

[Hoboh]

I'm keeping out of this one, they keep trying to toast me in the Guardian comments for inconveniently pointing out that if Hamas was not lobbing missiles and rockets into Israel there would be no excuse for the Iron fist policy.
I think what is happening is awful but I suspect Hamas are playing their own game in this.

[thebish]

for anyone interested - here's the NGO Monitor entry for MAP UK..

http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article/medi ... nians_map_

Interesting - what is the provenance of 'NGO Monitor'?

i don't know them well - but i suspect they are pro-Israeli, right-wing organisation...

they operate out of West Jerusalem.

NGO Monitor states that its mission is to "end the practice used by certain self-declared 'humanitarian NGOs' of exploiting the label 'universal human rights values' to promote politically and ideologically motivated agendas".

some would argue they do the same themselves.

[thebish]

I'm keeping out of this one, they keep trying to toast me in the Guardian comments for inconveniently pointing out that if Hamas was not lobbing missiles and rockets into Israel there would be no excuse for the Iron fist policy.

i suspect that it a very naive view of the situation...

[Lord Kangana]

The news from Gaza gets more horrifying.

I just made a donation to the Gaza appeal of Medical Aid for Palestinians (a long-established charity).

If others wish to do the same: http://www.map-uk.org/home/homepage" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm keen to give but (as no doubt you were) equally keen to ensure none of it is going to Hamas. How sure are you Bill? And how?

I think you're looking in the wrong place

http://forward.com/articles/194978/-bil ... nco/?p=all" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I for one am on the side of whoever kills less children when they don't have to.

[Prufrock]

Really? The side that kills 'less children when they don't have to' is enough for you?

And I'm not really sure what relevance that link has to me wanting to be 100% sure no money I give ends up financing Hamas rockets.

[Lord Kangana]

More than enough for me. What other parameters are more important?

[thebish]

Really? The side that kills 'less children when they don't have to' is enough for you?

And I'm not really sure what relevance that link has to me wanting to be 100% sure no money I give ends up financing Hamas rockets.

how serious are you about this? your taxes, for instance... are you 100% sure that not a single penny of that goes to fund israeli armaments - or russian arms that end up in separatists hands?

or is it just hamas rockets that disturb your sleep?

[Prufrock]

More than enough for me. What other parameters are more important?

Well I quite like my not supporting any side that kills children when they don't have to policy.

[Prufrock]

Really? The side that kills 'less children when they don't have to' is enough for you?

And I'm not really sure what relevance that link has to me wanting to be 100% sure no money I give ends up financing Hamas rockets.

how serious are you about this? your taxes, for instance... are you 100% sure that not a single penny of that goes to fund israeli armaments - or russian arms that end up in separatists hands?

or is it just hamas rockets that disturb your sleep?

Beyond my vote I don't have a lot of control over where my taxes go. As for donations 100% is a little hyperbolic but 'as sure as unreasonably can be' may be better.

[thebish]

Really? The side that kills 'less children when they don't have to' is enough for you?

And I'm not really sure what relevance that link has to me wanting to be 100% sure no money I give ends up financing Hamas rockets.

how serious are you about this? your taxes, for instance... are you 100% sure that not a single penny of that goes to fund israeli armaments - or russian arms that end up in separatists hands?

or is it just hamas rockets that disturb your sleep?

Beyond my vote I don't have a lot of control over where my taxes go. As for donations 100% is a little hyperbolic but 'as sure as unreasonably can be' may be better.

MAP UK is a well-respected longstanding charity - and (as far as I am aware) no links have ever been made between them and Hamas - not even by the avowedly zionist NGO-Monitor whose site I linked before. If anyone was going to make allegations about MAP UK money being used for Hamas rockets - then they would be making those allegations - and they aren't.

I don't see what the source of your suspicion is (other than that there might be foreigners involved?)

I'd have no qualms about using MAP UK as a channel for humanitarian giving. I don't because the money I have given over decades for humanitarian relief and development in Palestine and the occupied territories has always been channeled through my national Church's Christian Aid sponsored partnership link with PARC (the Palestinian Agricultural Relief Committee) http://www.pal-arc.org/ whose work I would thoroughly recommend unreservedly.

[Prufrock]

No suspicions on my part other than a general concern that before I give money to any charity I like to find out who they are and what they do. Until WtW mentioned them I'd never heard of MAP UK so I was wondering if he could tell me about them.

[thebish]

No suspicions on my part other than a general concern that before I give money to any charity I like to find out who they are and what they do. Until WtW mentioned them I'd never heard of MAP UK so I was wondering if he could tell me about them.

just out of interest - given your admirably watchful strategy (I generally do the same) - which charities do you most favour?

[Bruce Rioja]

When it comes to donating to charity I stop at nothing

[William the White]

No suspicions on my part other than a general concern that before I give money to any charity I like to find out who they are and what they do. Until WtW mentioned them I'd never heard of MAP UK so I was wondering if he could tell me about them.

And have I told you enough to reassure you?

[Hoboh]

I'm keeping out of this one, they keep trying to toast me in the Guardian comments for inconveniently pointing out that if Hamas was not lobbing missiles and rockets into Israel there would be no excuse for the Iron fist policy.

i suspect that it a very naive view of the situation...

Not really, no tunnels, no rockets, no air attacks nor ground invasion.

The isolation of Gaza is a different matter, Hamas has demonstrated with the direction it is fired aid money in, tunnel building, rocket components etc. that they cannot be trusted so why should Israel open the borders and relax controls.
Do not forget even Egypt is suspicious of them and their motives and there are other interested parties muddying the waters here such as an Iranian backed Hezbollah, people who have a stated aim of wiping Israel off the face of the planet.

[thebish]

I'm keeping out of this one, they keep trying to toast me in the Guardian comments for inconveniently pointing out that if Hamas was not lobbing missiles and rockets into Israel there would be no excuse for the Iron fist policy.

i suspect that it a very naive view of the situation...

Not really, no tunnels, no rockets, no air attacks nor ground invasion.

I see you have already added a second excuse to the one thing that caused the iron fist policy - now it's rockets AND tunnels!

there would follow 1001 supplementary excuses...

the rockets and the tunnels don't help - but let's not pretend they are all that's causing this.

and - what else do you do if you are blockaded on all sides and denied airspace other than build tunnels??

[Hoboh]

I'm keeping out of this one, they keep trying to toast me in the Guardian comments for inconveniently pointing out that if Hamas was not lobbing missiles and rockets into Israel there would be no excuse for the Iron fist policy.

i suspect that it a very naive view of the situation...

Not really, no tunnels, no rockets, no air attacks nor ground invasion.

I see you have already added a second excuse to the one thing that caused the iron fist policy - now it's rockets AND tunnels!

there would follow 1001 supplementary excuses...

the rockets and the tunnels don't help - but let's not pretend they are all that's causing this.

and - what else do you do if you are blockaded on all sides and denied airspace other than build tunnels??

The first thing is, you do not feckin' vote extremists into Government and expect everything to be rosy! A vote for Hamas was a vote for a continuation of the situation.
Just like in large parts of the Muslim world, the moderates roll over to the mad men.
I would bet your ass that many at the top of Hamas have much more than relief of Gaza at the top of their agenda.
Oh and I think the tunnels are relevant here.

[Hoboh]

Oh and chuck rockets or missiles at me then you should expect a massive overwhelming response.
The population is not without fault by electing Hamas the government.

[Hoboh]

And I have not got a 1001 excuses, I merely don't wear blinkers, nor work to the score of how many have perished.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Not sure it's a simple as everyone voted for Hamas. Excerpt from Wiki

2012 Hamas-led governments, considers the Fatah government in West Bank as illegitimate. The Hamas government of 2012 exercises de facto rule over the Gaza Strip, supported by the Palestinian Legislative Council, which is dominated by members of Hamas.[2] This government resigned in June 2014 after the formation of the Palestinian government of 2014.